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Switching the bookends

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The Donners

The Donners

Brownlow Medallist
Veteran 10k Posts
Apr 26, 2007
15,015
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Victoria
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Essendon
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Switching Ryder at CHB to CHF and Lucas from CHF to CHB.

It would add much needed pace to the forward line and it would add more aggression in defense. As for slowing down the backline, with Reimers and Myers to return on the half back flanks, pace will not be an issue.

Thoughts?
 
Lucas can not keep up with a leading forward at all.

There is little point as he would basically play in a similar role to Hurley.

Lucas was rusty up forward today but he at least got in position to take marks and could have kicked 3 or 4 if his hands were a little better. He is the sort of player that benefits from playing more and more football. He will be fine in a couple of weeks.
 
Lucas' main problem now is his mobilty. To play CHB in the modern game that is one of the key assets that a player requires. When Lucas went back in the early 2000's it wasn't as crucial and Lucas was also not into his 30's. He will find form in the forward line and should be played from inside the forward 50. If he had held his marks yesterday and kicked straight he would've had 3-4 and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I also don't understand all the hype around moving Ryder from CHB. He has done a good job there and to be honest it is the only position he has looked comfortable. He is not a ruckman IMO and if he is going to play onball in any capacity it would be as an Adam Goodes type. We need to leave him in one position so that he can gain confidence and continue to develop, not use him as a swing man ala Adam Hunter as he is not developed enough physically or mentally to handle it at this stage.
 

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Trying Ryder out at CHF is an idea a few have floated and one I endorse, with the caveat that he needs at least a few games there to be given a chance. Not just thrown there for a quarter of one game and then dismissed.

Lucas' pace (or lack there of these days) would be even more exposed down back and would not be helpful. Honestly we either give him time in the seniors or (and I was in favour of this during the NAB cup) play him at Bendigo for a while to see if he can find some touch on lesser opponents (no offence to them).

The backline isn't that slow and I don't know why you would want to waste Reimers down there (long term, he has played stints there but is much better up forward/on the wing). Our problem isn't speed (which too many Essendon supporters think is acure all), it is skills.
 
Bloody hell - people talk about Scotty as if he can't run out of his own shadow. He's only just turned 31, not 81....

Pace was never his main asset anyway so I don;t know what everyone is worrying about.

He will be fine.
 
stay true said:
Oh geez I'm not to sure about this.

Lucas isnt as mobile as he once was and although I agree that Ryder up forward would be good, I'm not sure it will do us any favours defensively.

I'd give Scotty a few weeks to get some form before we start thinking of throwing him back.
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lucas wont survive in the backline. like you said he doesnt have the mobility, he is a great forward and will prove that yet again in a few rounds.

i agree with moving ryder forward.. i think he could prove massively dangerous down there, however it shoudlnt be at the expense of lucas or lloyd, this is where neagle needs to prove himself

if pears hurley and fletch keep going well down back then ryder can play anywhere really we dont need 4 talls down back
 
fishguts said:
How about Lloyd on Pavlich just as a one game expirment?

I for one would be quite interested to see how that would go.
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I agree it would be fascinating. Can't see it happen, but I'd kind of like to

Daytripper said:
Bloody hell - people talk about Scotty as if he can't run out of his own shadow. He's only just turned 31, not 81....

Pace was never his main asset anyway so I don;t know what everyone is worrying about.

He will be fine.
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Amen :thumbsu:
 
Jono B said:
Lucas can not keep up with a leading forward at all.

There is little point as he would basically play in a similar role to Hurley.

Lucas was rusty up forward today but he at least got in position to take marks and could have kicked 3 or 4 if his hands were a little better. He is the sort of player that benefits from playing more and more football. He will be fine in a couple of weeks.
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Exactly.

Had a couple of those set shots been goals instead of points, people would have a much different view of his game....just based on a couple of kicks.

He actually did better than I expected and will still be better for the run.
 
Daytripper said:
Bloody hell - people talk about Scotty as if he can't run out of his own shadow. He's only just turned 31, not 81....

Pace was never his main asset anyway so I don;t know what everyone is worrying about.

He will be fine.
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Agree. He looked in need of the run yesterday, he really did struggle. I'm sure back at the Dome Scotty will bounce back this week.
 

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The Donners said:
Switching Ryder at CHB to CHF and Lucas from CHF to CHB.

It would add much needed pace to the forward line and it would add more aggression in defense. As for slowing down the backline, with Reimers and Myers to return on the half back flanks, pace will not be an issue.

Thoughts?
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I agree with this whole-heartedly - Lucas is an excpetional reader of the ball - what he lacks in pace he makes up for with this. And IMPORTANTLY, is a nice long and accurate kick which we no doubt need coming out of defence.

I think Ryder is ready to start influencing games, we are not getting the most of of him with his 10 possession games at CHB. Lucas and Lloyd at FF / CHF is not going to win us our next Premiership.
 
My proposal is to drop Neagle ,and play Hurley as the third tall forward - And play Pears as the third tall back - And Bellchambers must play as a second ruck.

We cant have Hille on the ball all day and Ryder switching from defence and the ruck.

We need a cohesive structure.
 
Daytripper said:
Bloody hell - people talk about Scotty as if he can't run out of his own shadow. He's only just turned 31, not 81....

Pace was never his main asset anyway so I don;t know what everyone is worrying about.

He will be fine.
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He is yet to show me that he is comfortably back to where he was at before he hurt his knee. He has look scratchy at training and has looked a fair way out of form so far this pre season.

He will work his way back to better form but i am not convinced he can get back to his 2006,2007 form.
 
Another option open to us is having Darcy Daniher coming off the bench. He impressed in the NAB cup. Attcks the ball and the man hard and has that physical presence that is a little lacking at the moment. He also impressed playing on a big body in Hawkins this week.
He could play either end, so perhaps Neagle could have a few weeks in the 2's. Daniher could release Ryder to the forward line, and if things arent going so well down back, Daniher or Hurley could swap with Ryder as both could potentially add some spark up forward too.
Ryder could also releive Hill in the Ruck and give Hill a bit more time leading from the goal square which he does quite well.
 
auswatto said:
Another option open to us is having Darcy Daniher coming off the bench. He impressed in the NAB cup. Attcks the ball and the man hard and has that physical presence that is a little lacking at the moment. He also impressed playing on a big body in Hawkins this week.
He could play either end, so perhaps Neagle could have a few weeks in the 2's. Daniher could release Ryder to the forward line, and if things arent going so well down back, Daniher or Hurley could swap with Ryder as both could potentially add some spark up forward too.
Ryder could also releive Hill in the Ruck and give Hill a bit more time leading from the goal square which he does quite well.
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In my humble opinion, Darcy will be lucky to still be on our list this time next year.

Still a long way off AFL level to me.
 
I think that people are getting FAR TO CARRIED AWAY following the first H&A game of the season. All of you calling for Lucas to go down back or Ryder to move up forward are forgetting that Knights and the coaching staff have been working on both a game plan and long term strategy for this club all preason (and the year before that). Consequently they are not going to drastically deviate from this after only one H&A game loss in which we were competitive for the most part.

This discussion would not be taking place if Bellchambers had played. It has already been confirmed that he was pulled out of the side due to illness so I would expect him to come straight back in this week, leaving Ryder to play in his customary CHB role. THE ONLY time Ryder will move further up the ground is when the likes of Daniher and Pears are ready to play CHB on a weekly basis, which will probably not happen on a permanent basis until later this year if not next year. Until that time Ryder will remain our CHB.

Knights is also committed to playing Neagle et al up forward, it is just unfortunate that Gumbleton is not able to stay fit otherwise he would be up there as well. Whilst Neagle is out of form at the moment, he will continue to be given every opportunity to play FF with the hope that Gumbleton will be CHF. Hille and Laycock (when fit) will also move down their when not in the ruck providing us with another tall target. There will be no other players earmarked for full time key forward roles (other than a McPhee type pinch hitting).

It's not just a matter of telling a bloke 'we are playing you up forward now' when they have spent the best part of 6 months training and mentally preparing to play a particular position. Young players especially need consistency in their roles in order for them to develop and by constantly changing this around, especially after 1 round is going to put their development further behind.

Just be patient peoples.

Edit: For those of you with access to BomberTV on the essendonfc.com.au website, watch Knights' interview today and in particular the question about moving Ryder forward/in the ruck. He clearly wants to do it but said that it was critical to have Pears and Daniher in the side before freeing Paddy up.
 

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& as pointed out by hird last night, aami stadium can be very difficult ground for visiting forwards if your midfield is not on song (which it wasnt)

so judging lucas on that performance alone is very unfair, he will be back playing consistent footy sooner rather than later.
 
auswatto said:
Another option open to us is having Darcy Daniher coming off the bench. He impressed in the NAB cup. Attcks the ball and the man hard and has that physical presence that is a little lacking at the moment. He also impressed playing on a big body in Hawkins this week.
He could play either end, so perhaps Neagle could have a few weeks in the 2's. Daniher could release Ryder to the forward line, and if things arent going so well down back, Daniher or Hurley could swap with Ryder as both could potentially add some spark up forward too.
Ryder could also releive Hill in the Ruck and give Hill a bit more time leading from the goal square which he does quite well.
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You are closer to my way of thinking !

We need to regenerate the forward line ( drop neagle ) and use a Hurley, Ryder, Daniher.

We may have to Mix 'N Match until we find the right combination.
 
Lucas got himself to the right positions and contests on Sunday but was just a little rusty, which is a vast improvement over the NAB, where he was not even getting to the contests.

I feel he will be far better for the run and will gradually get better and better.
 
Kaiser Powser said:
Lucas got himself to the right positions and contests on Sunday but was just a little rusty, which is a vast improvement over the NAB, where he was not even getting to the contests.

I feel he will be far better for the run and will gradually get better and better.
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Couldn't agree more.
 

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