Tall timber

[della]

It amazes me sometimes how we win any games and just how good we could be if we had a few decent big men.


king - really not on top of his game and has no real presence around the ground, doesn't take any contested marks or kick goals when played forward

chambers - they don't call him unco for nothing, a real battler who gives his all but is not up to AFL standard in my opinion

Playfair - has been pathetic since coming back from injury, doesn't take enough marks for mine, his kicking is hopless and he is clearly the dumbest footballer i have seen, always takes the wrong option, a big problem we have is at CHF

Nathan Ablett - is going to be a player no doubt, not bagging him one bit but he has only played 3 games so its hard to expect to much of him, am happy with what he is doing

Ottens - Injury prone and we may never see the best of him again, hasnt fired since 2000-2001



just wish we had a few tall marking options, we could be so dangerous but i guess thats the way it is

 

[thehoff]

Tommy Hawkins may help us out there in a couple of seasons.

Him and Nath will have us firing!

 

[Turbocat]

It amazes me sometimes how we win any games and just how good we could be if we had a few decent big men.

king - really not on top of his game and has no real presence around the ground, doesn't take any contested marks or kick goals when played forward
chambers - they don't call him unco for nothing, a real battler who gives his all but is not up to AFL standard in my opinion
Playfair - has been pathetic since coming back from injury, doesn't take enough marks for mine, his kicking is hopless and he is clearly the dumbest footballer i have seen, always takes the wrong option, a big problem we have is at CHF
Nathan Ablett - is going to be a player no doubt, not bagging him one bit but he has only played 3 games so its hard to expect to much of him, am happy with what he is doing
Ottens - Injury prone and we may never see the best of him again, hasnt fired since 2000-2001

just wish we had a few tall marking options, we could be so dangerous but i guess thats the way it is

Della , in your search for a few good men, dont forget , Scarlet, Harley Egan but I suppose your thinking forwards.
I agree we really havent picked up a quality tall in our picks since list sr-structure in 99. If you have look at our mids they are a mixture of R1's,R2's, R3's etc. We have some guys like Bartel and Corey that one would expect to be good as they were R1's. Then we have guys like Enright and Ling and David Johnson that are value plus when you look at were we picked them. Basically we havent had the pick that would give us a quality tall, we have had to go for 4-6 value talls and hope one comes good.Truth is none have when you compare them to Ling (B&F).In the end its what has cost us two first round picks because we needed to try to get an established tall. Scarlo and now NA are F/S's so without them the situation would show even more.

 

[tayls]

I agree we really havent picked up a quality tall in our picks since list sr-structure in 99. If you have look at our mids they are a mixture of R1's,R2's, R3's etc. We have some guys like Bartel and Corey that one would expect to be good as they were R1's. Then we have guys like Enright and Ling and David Johnson that are value plus when you look at were we picked them. Basically we havent had the pick that would give us a quality tall, we have had to go for 4-6 value talls and hope one comes good.Truth is none have when you compare them to Ling (B&F).In the end its what has cost us two first round picks because we needed to try to get an established tall. Scarlo and now NA are F/S's so without them the situation would show even more.

Thats a really good point, when did we last pick up a really good Quality tall in the draft. Would it be Steven King, even he was a compo pick. Maybe thats what we need to use our first rounder on.
Or are we just waiting for Tommy.

 

[della]

We have gone for Mackie and Tenace and also Spriggs in our recent picks in the top 10, could come to haunt us, but i guess they just went for the best player available at the time excpet for mackie who was taken from the clouds in a real suprise selcetion.

 

[jmain14]

Tommy Hawkins may help us out there in a couple of seasons.

Him and Nath will have us firing!

well, that's basically what we are relying on hey...

without ever seeing tommy play the raps on him are so big that you can't help but be excited about him.

him at chf and nath at ff in 3 years time sounds good to me. here's hoping!!

 

[jmain14]

We have gone for Mackie and Tenace and also Spriggs in our recent picks in the top 10, could come to haunt us, but i guess they just went for the best player available at the time excpet for mackie who was taken from the clouds in a real suprise selcetion.

give them time mate. blackjack just needs time, that's all. as for mackie I have said on here plenty of times that he'll make it. I am sure he'll prove to you all one day that he was worth the gamble as a top 10 draft pick.

 

[Turbocat]

We have gone for Mackie and Tenace and also Spriggs in our recent picks in the top 10, could come to haunt us, but i guess they just went for the best player available at the time excpet for mackie who was taken from the clouds in a real suprise selcetion.

There are always the players you can say "we should taken him, instead of him" or "hey we could have got that guy at 40 something", Im talking about the kids that have stood out thru u18's and been declared Top5 picks from an early stage, the ones who were less hit and miss. A Scott Lucus in 94 was pick 4, that sort of thing not the extreme of Hird at 79. So..

Spriggs, 99, p15
I not sure on the 99 draft. Spriggs taken at 15 was considered a good get but things change quickly. In the short time period since that draft things have changed in our group and as far as criteria gos. When we got Spriggs he played almost two years without missing a game, our midfield was catus and we needed run.At that time stamina was rated far higher than now, with rotations its far more imprortant to have the foot skills. He was hell of lot better than Ezra Bray at 17. Maybe we could have gone for Cain Akland but he was no standout.

Mackie, 02, p7
If I was to gripe it would be this pick. Not because he has not talent but because considering our needs and considering this was the lowest pick we had had in 12 years we picked him. I wold have prefered Laycock (Ess,p10) but even McIntosh(Roos, p9) at 201cm would have been probably a more balanced pick.Again I dont question his worth of pick but just his fit in our list and to be honest Mackie has probably given more than the other two up till now.

Tenace, 03 p7
Here I see no real alternative, we would have taken Kepler Bradley(Ess,p6)he was really the first tall taken in 03.After Tenace I dont see anyone we could have taken.Tenace was talked up as high as P2 thru the year.

The fact is the best draft for talls in a long time was last year and we chose to trade because to draft another developing tall would be to much for the VFL.

 

[della]

yeah agree, not having a go at those picks, we wnated Bradley but the Bombers took him one before, i like Tenace and think he has a future

Mackie can play, no doubt, always going to be abit of a project player

spriggs - u can't win them all, not as bad as Hooper in 90 draft, they saids he was the next Polly farmer, mmmm

 

[Jack-Packenham]

Playfair - has been pathetic since coming back from injury, doesn't take enough marks for mine, his kicking is hopless and he is clearly the dumbest footballer i have seen, always takes the wrong option, a big problem we have is at CHF

Do I win a prize for saying this from the start of his career.

 

[catempire]

Do I win a prize for saying this from the start of his career.

The broken record and eventually to be proven wrong prize?

Yes.

Give it a rest Jack. Everyone's heard what you have to say on Henry. Agree to disagree, for now and see what happens over the next 12 months.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

The broken record and eventually to be proven wrong prize?
Yes.
Give it a rest Jack. Everyone's heard what you have to say on Henry. Agree to disagree, for now and see what happens over the next 12 months.

So for me to be proven wrong how many good games does he have to play. He has played 40 games - 35 bad and maybe 5 good. Being generous I think.
Has the thought ever crossed your mind that maybe I am right and you are all wrong. I know its a very hard thought to process, but at this stage I think I am way ahead on this one. Ask yourself these questions. Would Henry get a game at any other club? I would not have thought so. How long would Kent Kingsley keep his spot in the team if he was averaging 4 kicks a game in 90 minutes of play and never kicking a goal and taking 1 or 2 marks. About 3 weeks maximum I think. Where I stand at the footy, everybody around me agrees that he is a joke. Where do you watch the games from because obviuosly he looks a lot better from a different angle. It is no 22 that you are watching isn't it?

 

[della]

i don't doubt his workrate and attack on the ball i just don't see him developing into a real gun or being a key forward target, just makes to many mistakes and his kicking really stinks, i hope i am proven wrong and he can turn it around next year

 

[Jack-Packenham]

I am all for giving him another chance next year. It's obvious he is struggling with the concept of playing CHF and it's not going to get any easier in the next couple of weeks. Play Mooney as a pinch hitter for the finals and see how Henry shapes up next year.

 

[Turbocat]

I am all for giving him another chance next year. It's obvious he is struggling with the concept of playing CHF and it's not going to get any easier in the next couple of weeks. Play Mooney as a pinch hitter for the finals and see how Henry shapes up next year.

I think when you look at H you are expecting him to be a top10 in the AFL player. We would all like that to be the case but he will never be that. He has limitations, I cant think of any games where he has shown the typ of raw talent of NA has done in his first three.Ok he isnt the perfect CHF but really Jack how many are there out there?

They arent easy to find, the obvious ones are always gone by our pick. The fact is H is our best option on our list.This is not his fault, where is the player on our list from Scarletts vinatge that should be playing the position?How many years did Graham play before being asked to play there? Despite what you may think he played the postion well enough to worry other teams before the jaw.That he stepped up in the first half of the year is the reason we are playing finals, that our form dropped of after him going down is an indicator of his importance to our structure.

 

[catempire]

I am all for giving him another chance next year.

Thanks goodness for that. That's all I ask.

 

[catempire]

And for the record Henry's being playing the hardest position on the ground for a grand total of 18 matches. Here are some good performances from the seasoned veteren:

Round 4 v Essendon - 12 possessions, 8 marks, 2 goals 3 behinds
Round 8 v Carlton - 15 possessions, 10 marks, 0 goals 2 behinds
Round 9 v Kangaroos - 12 possessions, 8 marks, 3 goals 1 behind
Round 12 v Adelaid - 12 possessions, 5 marks, 2 goals 0 behinds

Even those four games are enough to make me think he's got enough promise to play the position for years to come.

Averages before he broke jaw:

10 possessions, 5 marks, 1 goal, 1 behind

Averages after jaw brake:

8 possessions, 3 marks, 0.3 goals, 0.6 behinds

Not a big difference, but a difference nonetheless.

 

[WestCat]

And for the record Henry's being playing the hardest position on the ground for a grand total of 18 matches. Here are some good performances from the seasoned veteren:

Round 4 v Essendon - 12 possessions, 8 marks, 2 goals 3 behinds
Round 8 v Carlton - 15 possessions, 10 marks, 0 goals 2 behinds
Round 9 v Kangaroos - 12 possessions, 8 marks, 3 goals 1 behind
Round 12 v Adelaid - 12 possessions, 5 marks, 2 goals 0 behinds

Even those four games are enough to make me think he's got enough promise to play the position for years to come.

Averages before he broke jaw:

10 possessions, 5 marks, 1 goal, 1 behind

Averages after jaw brake:

8 possessions, 3 marks, 0.3 goals, 0.6 behinds

Not a big difference, but a difference nonetheless.

The average's before the jaw are good solid figures, and the fact that it took him about 4-5 weeks to actually settle in the position says that his figures are probably even better. If H could get back to 10 possessions and 5 marks, I will be very happy. He's never going to be a goal kicking forward, but with Kingsley and Ottens (N.Ablett for now), he was never meant to be a strong goal kicking forward, just a link man who could mark the ball through the CHF position and get it to the FF line players.

By putting smart players such as S.Johnson, Mackie, G.Ablett and Chapman beside him, we can cover his deficencies and hopefully provide the support to make him a better player. I still believe he can be a solid CHF, he is very mobile for a guy of his size, he is probably the most agile guy in the league over 198cm. He just needs to work on his decision making and use of his big body.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

I think when you look at H you are expecting him to be a top10 in the AFL player.
The fact is H is our best option on our list. Despite what you may think he played the postion well enough to worry other teams before the jaw.That he stepped up in the first half of the year is the reason we are playing finals, that our form dropped of after him going down is an indicator of his importance to our structure.

Centre Half Forward is the most important position on the ground. You need a player to lead to the right spots, contest and bring the players around him into the game, Henry has not been doing this.

Is Henry solely responsible for our great start to the year is he? We beat Richmond, Port Adelaide, Western Bulldogs and St Kilda in the first 6 weeks and Henry had virtually no impact on the games. Try looking at Corey Enright, Paul Chapman and Darren Milburn as the reasons we started the year so well.

To say Henry is the best option on our list can't be proven, because none of the other guys get an extended run in the side to prove themselves. Tom Lonergan played a couple of games and took some nice marks and kicked a few goals, but he is out in 2 weeks not to be seen again. Try giving him a 10 week run in the side and see how he shapes up against Henry. Was Henry dominating games in the VFL before he was given his chance, I don't think so. The senior side is a lot easier for a forward to perform in, as the delivery is so superior to that in the lower levels.

We lost to Essendon, St Kilda, Melbourne with Henry in the side, where was this great structure you talk about then?

You can't take out of form players into finals. Just look at 2000 when Barry Stoneham was picked just so we didn't upset another retiring veteran. He had no impact on the game, just like the previous 10 weeks.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

By putting smart players such as S.Johnson, Mackie, G.Ablett and Chapman beside him, we can cover his deficencies and hopefully provide the support to make him a better player. I still believe he can be a solid CHF, he is very mobile for a guy of his size, he is probably the most agile guy in the league over 198cm. He just needs to work on his decision making and use of his big body.

How many other players can have the luxury of having these players around them to cover there deficencies? Cameron Thurley kicked 6 goals in 2 weeks but got the boot. Cameron Mooney must play there in the next couple of weeks to provide a contest, because Henry can not at this stage. Why don't we draft basketballers then, they are mobile and 6 foot 10. The reason, they can't play football.

 

[theGav56]

Would the Cats look at Polak? He is in the doldrums, but a former pick 4 and a runner up as Rookie of the Year. Doubt he is going to do it for you up forward. He could slot into the backline as a replacement for Harley in a year or two, and would definitely add to the Tall Timber list at Catland.

Dockers are looking to the midfield and would definitely be interested in Tenace, Mackie, Corey. Not saying that the Cats would be looking to move any of these players, and they are possibly all on the required list. Are they "untouchable"? Are there good midfielders who are sitting on the fringes who would be tradeable for Polak? If he is on the market as seems to be rumoured he will be strongly sought after. There is the feeling that rather than being a "dud" he more needs a change of clubs, environment and coach.

 

[Unwritten_Law]

If he can't play centre half forward we don't need him.

We have Scarlett at FB with Harley, Egan and Mooney capable KP defenders. Spencer has finished the year off strongly in the VFL as well.

We have Kingsley at FF with N. Ablett as understudy.

King, Ottens in the ruck with Blake as understudy.

Only CHF is the problem, with Henry being serviceable. So unless Reiwoldt, J.Brown, Barry Hall are on offer we will just wait and see on Henry's development and pick up Hawkins.

 

[theGav56]

If he can't play centre half forward we don't need him.

We have Scarlett at FB with Harley, Egan and Mooney capable KP defenders. Spencer has finished the year off strongly in the VFL as well.

We have Kingsley at FF with N. Ablett as understudy.

King, Ottens in the ruck with Blake as understudy.

Only CHF is the problem, with Henry being serviceable. So unless Reiwoldt, J.Brown, Barry Hall are on offer we will just wait and see on Henry's development and pick up Hawkins.

Fair enough. So given that you need to use three picks in the draft minimum, who will be delisted? Obviously Sanderson is retiring.

 

[Unwritten_Law]

Slade, Rahilly, McCarthy, Haynes would be the likely delistings.

 

[ezbian]

TurboCat, CatEmpire & WestCat, agree with you all.

H is developing, and before he broke his jaw and lost not only confidence but a great deal of fitness he would have been in our top 10 in the B&F. I will make it my duty to find this out when the count comes around. His biggest asset this year was to present, and make more contests than his direct opponent. Since the injury, his cardio has dropped and hasn't been able to do that. For H and the Geelong forward line to work we need contributions from them all. In the second quarter against Melbourne we looked dangerous. Ottens, Playfair, Kingsley, N.Ablett had them stretched for talls. Then you had the likes of Lil Gaz and Johnno crumbing. Our forward line doesn't have a star, no doubt, and in years to come there might be a couple of father sons who turn into stars, but what our forward line did provide at the start of the year was a number of options that got under the guards of most defences. Until Big H went down, we were the best attacking side in the comp. We lost structure when H and Ottens fell over.

What could Bomber do? Get on Bigfooty and say I can't wait for N.Ablett and T.Hawkins to develop into club superstars, and in three years the problem would be solved, I think not. He put faith in our forward line having too many options. Key injuries to H,Ottens, S.Johnson and Chapman threw these plans into disarray. I would still like to see what these guys could do if they were all fit like Adelaide or Sydney have been.

Fact of the matter is:
Can we get B.Hall: NO
Tredea: NO
Brown: NO
Riewoldt: NO

If we could what would we have to give. One would think something along the lines of Lil.Gaz, Kelly, and a first rounder. Or maybe try Corey, Bartel, S.Johnson and a first rounder.

My point is do we sit and bag what we have. Or do we be realistic, give some kids like H a chance, prey for no big injuries, and beat teams with a good defence and sound midfield that gives a number of forward options plenty of supply.

05 was ruined by injuries. Anybody who thinks otherwise, needs to tune in to the right station.