Tarrants true influence?

[spitlizard]

Ok, now that I have allowed it to sink in...what will be Tarrants true influence for Freo (It will take me a while to get use to seeing him in a purple guernsey!).

At first I though "why, we don't need him" but the more I am told about him, the more I keep thinking this may be a CC masterstroke.

No one denies Pav is our linchpin so is CT the new avenue to release the Pav to unleash damage?

I would like some opinions as I really don't know how to treat the whole CT thing..........

 

[dominguez]

The acquisition of Tarrant means we can play Pav in the middle more. It would be silly to have Murphy and JLo sitting on the bench while Pavlich and Tarrant play forward.

We should start the season with Pavlich in attack so that Tarrant can settle in and find confidence on the 2nd/3rd best defender. But once he is settled Pav should spend atleast half a game onball.

Starting 18 for round 10 2007.
B- Thornton McPharlin Hayden
HB- Mundy Johnson Black
C- Crowley Pavlich Peake
HF- Solomon Tarrant Bell
F- JLo Murphy Farmer
R- Sandilands Hasleby J. Carr

 

[theGav56]

The acquisition of Tarrant means we can play Pav in the middle more. It would be silly to have Murphy and JLo sitting on the bench while Pavlich and Tarrant play forward.

We should start the season with Pavlich in attack so that Tarrant can settle in and find confidence on the 2nd/3rd best defender. But once he is settled Pav should spend atleast half a game onball.

Pav is a much better forward than midfielder, though he is useful at centre bounces then going forward. rather than playing Pav midfield I prefer the plan the coaches have spoken about where some of the other big bodied players such as Mundy, drum etc get some midfield time. Both Pav and Tarrant can lead deep, into the midfield, but not actually play there.

My expectations are less about how many goals and marks tarrant may or may not rack up. It is more that with a potent attack they will demand fast delivery into the forward line, and we can leave that sideways style of play in the past. An attack with the marking power of Pav, Tarrant, Murphy and their cohorts does this. Take Pav out of the forward line, and the opposition will double team someone, Tarrant, and we are no more potent than this year.

 

[Ripper]

Pav is a much better forward than midfielder, though he is useful at centre bounces then going forward. rather than playing Pav midfield I prefer the plan the coaches have spoken about where some of the other big bodied players such as Mundy, drum etc get some midfield time. Both Pav and Tarrant can lead deep, into the midfield, but not actually play there.

My expectations are less about how many goals and marks tarrant may or may not rack up. It is more that with a potent attack they will demand fast delivery into the forward line, and we can leave that sideways style of play in the past. An attack with the marking power of Pav, Tarrant, Murphy and their cohorts does this. Take Pav out of the forward line, and the opposition will double team someone, Tarrant, and we are no more potent than this year.

Spot on. I can see it it my minds eye now. Both Pav and Stun Gun lead hard (one up the corridor and one up the wing. As soon as the one who's lead is not honoured see that it is not coming to Him He will take off the othe way to be on the end of it , If Potaot doesn't get it first coming out of the square.

The Wiz will be there to clean up any scraps.

The opposition defenders will need to be mobile and have a big , big tank.

 

[dominguez]

Pav is a much better forward than midfielder, though he is useful at centre bounces then going forward. rather than playing Pav midfield I prefer the plan the coaches have spoken about where some of the other big bodied players such as Mundy, drum etc get some midfield time. Both Pav and Tarrant can lead deep, into the midfield, but not actually play there.

My expectations are less about how many goals and marks tarrant may or may not rack up. It is more that with a potent attack they will demand fast delivery into the forward line, and we can leave that sideways style of play in the past. An attack with the marking power of Pav, Tarrant, Murphy and their cohorts does this. Take Pav out of the forward line, and the opposition will double team someone, Tarrant, and we are no more potent than this year.

Mundy and Drum aren't big bodied, they are tall, there's a big difference. They don't have the strength to improve our clearances, Pavlich does. Drum, Mundy and Johnson could get possessions playing on the wing, but they will never be good centre square players. Pavlich was an all Australian in 2003 while playing onball, and will dominate like Goodes and Judd if he returns there. If we take Pavlich out of the forward line it will be slightly less potent than this year, but our midfield would improve dramatically, games of footy are won in the middle.

 

[Ripper]

Mundy and Drum don't have the strength to improve our clearances, Pavlich does. Drum, Mundy and Johnson could get possessions playing on the wing, but they will never be good centre square players. Pavlich was an all Australian in 2003 while playing onball, and will dominate like Goodes and Judd if he returns there. If we take Pavlich out of the forward line it will be less potent than this year, but our midfield would improve dramatically, games of footy are won in the middle.

We will never know unless We give it a go. Mundy's & Johnno's evasivemness is as good as anyone going around.

 

[Roundhouse]

Pav is a much better forward than midfielder, though he is useful at centre bounces then going forward. rather than playing Pav midfield I prefer the plan the coaches have spoken about where some of the other big bodied players such as Mundy, drum etc get some midfield time. Both Pav and Tarrant can lead deep, into the midfield, but not actually play there.

My expectations are less about how many goals and marks tarrant may or may not rack up. It is more that with a potent attack they will demand fast delivery into the forward line, and we can leave that sideways style of play in the past. An attack with the marking power of Pav, Tarrant, Murphy and their cohorts does this. Take Pav out of the forward line, and the opposition will double team someone, Tarrant, and we are no more potent than this year.

I agree with that.

Two quality leading half forwards can only be a good thing. Murphy isn't there yet, and is better suited to FF anyway IMO, and JLo's height means that he is more dangerous close to goal.

Pav and Tarrant should work the half forward line and drop back into the fifty when they have a mismatch (which should happen pretty regularly). If we get the chemistry right, the opposition will need at least three quality, tall, quick, high marking defenders with great endurance just to match us.

I smell a goalfeast.

 

[dominguez]

We will never know unless We give it a go. Mundy's & Johnno's evasivemness is as good as anyone going around.

There's much more room to move in the backline than there is in the centresquare. Pavlich and Goodes are the only players I can think of who started in another position and became quality midfielders, but both are superstars of the game and could dominate from any of the 18 positions on the ground.

Johnson and Mundy are good young players, but are yet to prove anything away from the hbf, which is the easiest position on the ground to play. They need to show that they have the capability to shut down some of the best forwards in the competition before we flirt with their form.

We need a CHB much more than another outside midfielder, which is what Johnson and especially Mundy would be if played in the middle of the ground.

 

[Ripper]

There's much more room to move in the backline than there is in the centresquare. Pavlich and Goodes are the only players I can think of who started in another position and became quality midfielders, but both are superstars of the game and could dominate from any of the 18 positions on the ground.

Johnson and Mundy are good young players, but are yet to prove anything away from the hbf, which is the easiest position on the ground to play. They need to show that they have the capability to shut down some of the best forwards in the competition before we flirt with their form.

We need a CHB much more than another outside midfielder, which is what Johnson and especially Mundy would be if played in the middle of the ground.

You are being too conservitive, Dom. Scared to make a mistake. I say throw the boys a big challenge and it will be for the better.

 

[spitlizard]

We will never know unless We give it a go. Mundy's & Johnno's evasivemness is as good as anyone going around.

Agreed.

 

[dominguez]

You are beuing too conservitive, Dom. Scared to maje a mistake. I say throw the boys a big challenge and it will be for the better.

Mainly because very few of those moves pay off. McPharlin forward, Schammer back, Matt Carr as an attacking midfielder instead of a tagger, etc etc. How many of the best midfielders in the game started in other positions? The likes of Judd, Kerr, Voss, Harvey, West, Ricciutto were always midfielders, they weren't manufactured.

There are still question marks over Mundy's courage IMO. With space and time he is fantastic, but has looked soft at times. Playing onball will expose him more.

Johnson lacks pace off the mark, which will make it hard for him to stream away from a stoppage.

I'm not suggesting we play Pavlich on ball for 22 x 100 minutes, but having him play onball will see us very hard to beat IMHO. We were pushed off the ball and beaten at the clearances by Sydney, bringing Pavlich into the mix for 3 or 4 lots of 15 minutes could really turn a game.

If JLo is fit he is too talented top spend 30 minutes in the ruck and 30 minutes forward. We can't play Pavlich, Tarrant, Solomon, Murphy and JLo in the same forward line, it's too top heavy. The obvious move is Pavlich into the middle. If we are getting murdered out of the middle and Pavlich is cooling his heels inside 50 I'll be very angry.

 

[Ripper]

Mainly because very few of those moves pay off. McPharlin forward, Schammer back, Matt Carr as an attacking midfielder instead of a tagger, etc etc. How many of the best midfielders in the game started in other positions? The likes of Judd, Kerr, Voss, Harvey, West, Ricciutto were always midfielders, they weren't manufactured.

There are still question marks over Mundy's courage IMO. With space and time he is fantastic, but has looked soft at times. Playing onball will expose him more.

Johnson lacks pace off the mark, which will make it hard for him to stream away from a stoppage.

I'm not suggesting we play Pavlich on ball for 22 x 100 minutes, but having him play onball will see us very hard to beat IMHO. We were pushed off the ball and beaten at the clearances by Sydney, bringing Pavlich into the mix for 3 or 4 lots of 15 minutes could really turn a game.

If JLo is fit he is too talented top spend 30 minutes in the ruck and 30 minutes forward. We can't play Pavlich, Tarrant, Solomon, Murphy and JLo in the same forward line, it's too top heavy. The obvious move is Pavlich into the middle. If we are getting murdered out of the middle and Pavlich is cooling his heels inside 50 I'll be very angry.

Having the Stun gun will give us the option (can't have too many options IMO) of playing Pav in the middle when need be of course.

You are being too hard on the young blokes though I reckon , they will only get better.

We still have Scotty too hotty to hold down a defensive post and I reckon that will free up Doddy to go more onball as He improves.

In fact the more I think about it , That is the most likely option and the talk of the others is a bit of a smokescreen on CC's part.

J'Lo i am not that sure about , He is a failure as a forward unless We are playing a lower ranked team.

Good ruckman but has been overtaken by 211. He needs to re-invent himself.

 

[spitlizard]

Mainly because very few of those moves pay off. McPharlin forward, Schammer back,

CC's errors with these moves was not so much the gamble he took to change them but rather a reluctance to accept they were bad and return them to their rightful positions. I would hope that he has learnt from that.

I still think trialing them in the midfield for a few weeks is a good move.

 

[dominguez]

Dodd in the centre is a much better option than Mundy and Johnson. Solomon can spend time in there too, he certainly has the body strength we need in the centre square.

Thornton is an important player, but I'm not sure he is a KPP. Best suited to the small/medium sized forwards, will probably play on Medhurst when we play the pies. Looking forward to that game, I think the fixtures are being released Monday along with an announcement of 4 games a week on foxtel.

 

[dominguez]

CC's errors with these moves was not so much the gamble he took to change them but rather a reluctance to accept they were bad and return them to their rightful positions. I would hope that he has learnt from that.

That's my concern, he'll play them onball and take 3 months to realise it isn't working, when it will be clear to many after a fortnight. He's still too slow to make changes IMO, we have plenty of players who could play in numerous positions. When we are struggling he should shuffle the deck more.

Acquiring Tarrant diminishes our flexibility in some ways, because we can't throw Johnson/Mundy/McPharlin forward.

 

[KissStephanie]

I would like some opinions as I really don't know how to treat the whole CT thing..........

Thank goodness he has gone! At first I wasn't sure how to feel about Tarrant leaving my team, but now I feel that Collingwood will kick more goals without him. Rocca, T.Cloke, Fraser, Didak (when fit), Davis, Buckley, Rusling, Swan, Medhurst and a few others all floating around the forward line at various times sounds promising.

'Goal assists' will be missed, but anybody can assist, while Tarrant simply doesn't kick anywhere near enough goals! Dropping his head was annoying, and his inconsistancy as a key forward was annoying. I'm sure that some improvement will be seen in him next season, but it will be interesting to see how he travels every second week.

He will take some marks up the field as he has always done, but I can see him potentially getting in the way of Pavlich and reducing his effect at times too. Since the trade was completed, I'm beginning to feel more each day that Collingwood were the winner as Medhurst represents at least as many, if not more goals than Tarrant, while pick #8 in the 'super draft' should be a beauty!

Time will tell, but the first time we play Freo next season should be interesting!

 

[Moo]

Thank goodness he has gone! At first I wasn't sure how to feel about Tarrant leaving my team, but now I feel that Collingwood will kick more goals without him. Rocca, T.Cloke, Fraser, Didak (when fit), Davis, Buckley, Rusling, Swan, Medhurst and a few others all floating around the forward line at various times sounds promising.

Steph - obviously dont get too many Pies games in the states?

Collingwood is going to drop like a stone without him.

Rusling is still an inconsistent kid, Medhurst/Davis ...lets just say consistency aint a strong point...you may kick 20 one week and 6 the next. Fraser is playing ruck full time ...you ahve just dropped Fanning, Walkers a joke and then we are talking Cam Cloke? 3 shoulder reconstructions and he was shopped around the league during trade week?

You have Rocca and without Didak early you will be out of the running by mid season.

At the start of a game I can just see CC ....

CC: Who do we have lining up on Rocca?

Harvey: Ummmmm McPharlin, Haddrill and I don't know maybe Thornton.

CC: Are we rotating?

Harvey:No .....but I can add a 4th in Grover onto him if those 3 cant do the job.

On Taz - no way CC should be considering Pav to the midfield unless it is to break a tag or isolate a shocking defender.

Our midfield whilst not in the absolute elite - is decent and Sandilands makes a huge difference. The improvement in the midfield hopefully will come from Hase getting fit, Schammer finding belief and one of the young guys pushing through....Duffman, MJo?

Tarrant provides...

(I) Insurance....would not want our flag dreams destroyed by an injury to Pav. If Pav is injured, Tarrant is good enough to win H&A games as the key forward as has done for C'wood

(II) An alternative path to goal. Can you afford to double team Pav with Tarrant .....funnily enough Murphy may enjoy the space from 2 hard leading forwards.

(III) Allows McPharlin to go back. Luke is a solid forward but a superb backman. Taz makes our forward line better but also our backline - McPharlin rebounds that ball like I have rarely seen .....he is now kicking it into the path of Taz/Pav - frightening.

(III) Link man ....Pav is a dead set finisher, Taz from what I have seen is happy to link the play. With our strength being a hard running half back line (look at the run we have Mundy,Grover, Drum, McPharlin, Thornton, Hayden and even Gilmore).....I think a lot of goals are coming from quick transfer of play. Good luck trying to flood.

(IV) Taz gets better as Rocca is about 75% of a Pav and the choice was easy for backline coaches....your monster defender (Haddrill, Glass, D Gaspar, M Michael, Scarlett etc) takes Rocca your mobile defender (McPharlin, Hunter, Clement) takes Tarrant. It is not that easy anymore ...put a monster on Taz and he will run him - especially on Subi. if Jeffery can remain on fire he might just be in for his best season.

Taz will benefit from these match ups.

(V) Match Ups. We now will force other teams to structure up differently to counter our strengths. We are very flexible and can work these other guys over. For example if Hunter is running around with Taz - he aint kicking match winning goals down the other end. St Kilda will find it hard to go Gerhig, hammill, Goddard and push Kosi back - as (i) they need Goddard abck on Tarrant (ii) the run of the half back line will deliver quick ball to mobile half forwards.

Change the match ups and then exploit the match ups (he he he - that was one of my coaching mantras the year I had two 6 feet 5 inch swingmen in BBall ....other teams would counter the height and we would run them, counter the run and we would post them up). I think Taz and Pav are two hard leading, aerobically gifted players capable of big grabs - in unison they are nightmares to match up on.

Its all good folks, its all good.

PS we won the u/23 WABL title that year .....good omen hey?

 

[KissStephanie]

Steph - obviously dont get too many Pies games in the states?

Collingwood is going to drop like a stone without him.

Rusling is still an inconsistent kid, Medhurst/Davis ...lets just say consistency aint a strong point...you may kick 20 one week and 6 the next. Fraser is playing ruck full time ...you ahve just dropped Fanning, Walkers a joke and then we are talking Cam Cloke? 3 shoulder reconstructions and he was shopped around the league during trade week?

You have Rocca and without Didak early you will be out of the running by mid season.

I saw a few Collingwood games live on 'Setanta Sports,' and a few live when I went back to Melbourne for a few weeks during the season. I'm used to people that don't barrack for Collingwood to expect us to drop like a stone too, but I don't though.

The hope last season was to play Guy Richards in the ruck, as he has played well in that role when fit, and that allows Fraser to be a very dangerous forward, but Richards has rarely been fit since he has been at the club. I hope that he is next season, and time will tell on that.

I think that Travis Cloke will be a good tall and mobile goalkicker for Collingwood, and maybe he will take a big step in 2007 without Tarrant there, and I think that Rocca can get at least a bit fitter with this last season under his belt after missing all of 2005.

Leon Davis and Paul Medhurst can kick a lot of goals, but consistancy is their problem yes, and that is the challenge for them to produce regularly. When they don't then at least they need to be able to take opposition defenders out of the play to allow Rocca, Fraser, Cloke, Didak, Rusling, Buckley, Swan and a few others to score them.

I do see Medhurst contributing more goals than Tarrant has in the past two seasons though. I also think that Rusling will as well as he missed a lot of last season from an early injury that he received, and although there is talk that Didak may be available by Round 1, I don't expect him to miss too much beyond that.

As you've said, Collingwood has the ability to kick 20 goals in a week, and the challenge is to produce that as often as possible, and I think that they can. Collingwood need players that want to play there, and it seems that it all got too tough for Taz, so a move is definitely best for both.

Collingwood will miss his linking up the ground, and his up to a dozen marks taken on a wing, and he is difficult to match up on too, but those aspects of his game are replaceable and he doesn't hurt the opposition. He is not a match winner as you have described if Pav gets hurt. The positive is that it could enable Cloke and Rusling to move forward, and Medhurst is the addition that is no more inconsistant than Tarrant anyway.

I see Collingwood at least matching last season, but I don't really want to discuss Collingwood on the Freo board though. I do feel a lot better about the trade now than at any previous time however, and pick #8 this season should also be a very good one in this draft!

 

[daics cousin]

Like i said in previous threads don't get too carried away spent 9 years filling us up with hope played 2 grand finals to no avail with Tarrant.In order for him to redeem himself he will put in a good year next year .He has too.So that things look good for him.So if your going to win a premiership it better be next year.Because after the initial first year ,when tazz thinks everyone loves him again, he'll sink back to the good life in WA ,buy a hotel with solli, and party's the word ,then he'll go back to being his usual self....LAZY..... and all your hopes and dreams about a flag are dashed. He couldn't handle the publicity in a 9 team town how is he going to handle the publicity and scrutiny in a 2 team state? Let's just see what happens?

 

[KissStephanie]

Like i said in previous threads don't get too carried away spent 9 years filling us up with hope played 2 grand finals to no avail with Tarrant.

One thing that Tarrant is most definitely not is a match-winner. As with many players he can have a day out, but since around the time that I was born, there have only been a handful of match-winners at Collingwood, and they are John Greening, Peter McKenna, Phil Carman, Peter Daicos, Nathan Buckley, and possibly Darren Millane, and he is not any of them. In fact, Tarrant isn't even Brian Taylor!

 

[Moo]

One thing that Tarrant is most definitely not is a match-winner. As with many players he can have a day out, but since around the time that I was born, there have only been a handful of match-winners at Collingwood, and they are John Greening, Peter McKenna, Phil Carman, Peter Daicos, Nathan Buckley, and possibly Darren Millane, and he is not any of them. In fact, Tarrant isn't even Brian Taylor!

Yeah superstar at the Pies a dog away.

He does not need to be a superstar, we are not claiming he is a superstar, he does not need to win a game of his own boot.

Just needs to be competitive.

 

[heathshaw39]

He will do nothing and he won't be able to kick goals because he can't kick. There is no point of playing him in your team. That's why we got rid of him.

 

[dominguez]

We gave up pick 13, Medhurst and Polak for Tarrant and we are paying him $400,000pa. For that price I am expecting a superstar.

 

[ImperialPurple]

For Tarrant AND Solomon... why do people always forget that?

We started off with picks 13, 31, 47, 63 and 79, and Medhurst and Polak (way outside our best 22, even with injuries to Hase, Haddrill, Thornton, Grover, Murphy, JLo during the times these former players were sitting out of the team).

We now have picks 31, 52 (slight downgrade on 47), 79, + Tarrant (not yet turned 26 and we know his capabilities), and Solomon (26 year old hard-nut, can play KPP - not that we'll need him to - forward or back or in the middle, premiership player and former AA).

We've lost pick 13 (1st rounder), pick 63 (5th rounder - meh) + two fringe players probably sitting around player #29 and #30 on our list, but have gained a player that most are picking in our "second five picked" players (ie top 10), + someone who will probably be in our 22, even if he starts on the bench.

I have no problem with that. Don't expect a superstar, but do expect someone to help out Pav and do better than both Medders and Polly combined.

 

[Bartram_Class]

Tarrant will be good for you, but dont fall into the trap of expecting too much, as thats what cost him at the Pies, the pressure on him to kick 60+ goals a year was way too much for him.

With Pav alongside him, I can see him having a really good few years in your forward line, he will only improve your side and to be honest, i dont think you payed over the top for him, hes a quality player when he gets going.