Competitions The 2012 AFC Drafting Game: The Premiership Table at the end of the Minor Round

[Freddy Bassett]

So, you're basing your entire argument on an example from a decade and a half ago, when we had different ruck rules, and different interchange rules.

Besides that, it is a foolish point. Are you discussing a world in which Rehn doesn't exist? Then I have to assume we'd have drafted a relatively reasonable replacement, but it's hard to know because it's a completely fictional world. Are you discussing a world in which he gets a late injury - kind of like when Mark Ricciuto was injured and it completely derailed our 2006 finals campaign?

In any event - we would have replaced Rehn with Pittman, and we would have won the flag. Rehn was tremendous throughout the season, but we would have found his grand final performances form someone else.

But you're changing the argument to suit your purposes. Which is fine, except it is a different argument. My point was that ruckmen are completely overrated in the modern game. Make the argument that I'm wrong. And don't try the "they gave your midfield first go at the ball", when we watch game after game of sides roving off opposition ruckmen, and maybe 20% of hitouts actually going to advantage. If I had an 80% failure rate in my job, I'd be sacked.

I think it is fair to say the real winner of this competition will only be known at seasons end. How can we judge teams when you think a ruckman is overrated and I think they are the most influential player on the ground, who is usally involved in 50 plus contests a game?

 

[FAITH]

So, you're basing your entire argument on an example from a decade and a half ago, when we had different ruck rules, and different interchange rules.

Besides that, it is a foolish point. Are you discussing a world in which Rehn doesn't exist? Then I have to assume we'd have drafted a relatively reasonable replacement, but it's hard to know because it's a completely fictional world. Are you discussing a world in which he gets a late injury - kind of like when Mark Ricciuto was injured and it completely derailed our 2006 finals campaign?

In any event - we would have replaced Rehn with Pittman, and we would have won the flag. Rehn was tremendous throughout the season, but we would have found his grand final performances form someone else.

But you're changing the argument to suit your purposes. Which is fine, except it is a different argument. My point was that ruckmen are completely overrated in the modern game. Make the argument that I'm wrong. And don't try the "they gave your midfield first go at the ball", when we watch game after game of sides roving off opposition ruckmen, and maybe 20% of hitouts actually going to advantage. If I had an 80% failure rate in my job, I'd be sacked.

Would having Sandles or Cox in the crows team this year improve the crows by only 5%?

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

I know it isn't ideal as we will most likely all be over this competition by the end of the season, but I really think that we should wait until the season is over before having a 'finals series' if that's what we are going to do. I am personally against it, but I think that if we were to include it as part of the game waiting until the season's completion would be a little more exciting.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I know it isn't ideal as we will most likely all be over this competition by the end of the season, but I really think that we should wait until the season is over before having a 'finals series' if that's what we are going to do. I am personally against it, but I think that if we were to include it as part of the game waiting until the season's completion would be a little more exciting.

Agree. We have voted on teams, surely that is enough. The game is for the 2012 season... All will be clear at seasons end

 

[ringo200]

We should probably get into the finals series, but I'm a bit too crook to run it. Anyone else willing?

We do an OP with both sides - just the names, formatted the same, really simple. We let both coaches post ONE paragraph about why they would beat the opposition side, then any one who wants to votes on who they think would win. Keep it running for 24 hours, then declare a winner of that game. Hopefully we might get some upsets, depending on matchups.

I'll start it up if people want it.

 

[Mego Red]

I think it is fair to say the real winner of this competition will only be known at seasons end. How can we judge teams when you think a ruckman is overrated and I think they are the most influential player on the ground, who is usally involved in 50 plus contests a game?

Because I'm only one vote and you're only one vote. It's just opinion.

 

[Mego Red]

Would having Sandles or Cox in the crows team this year improve the crows by only 5%?

I would think it would have been less than 5%.

You are replacing a 7/10 player with a 9/10 player in one position on the ground.

Even if a ruckman is twice as important - which they're not, but let's assume that, it means that instead of a 20% improvement in 1/24 of your side, you get it in the equivalent of 1/12. Which means your side has a 1.66% improvement.

Hence, I guess, why most miserable sides often have great ruckman, including West Coast before the blip of 2011.

 

[ringo200]

Because I'm only one vote and you're only one vote. It's just opinion.

I started a new thread for the first game, you and Lawrst should head over and make your argument.

You can read as much or as little into the games as you want, doing this now doesn't stop us from doing something similiar come end of season.

 

[Mego Red]

Agree. We have voted on teams, surely that is enough. The game is for the 2012 season... All will be clear at seasons end

I don't think anyone is going to care then. It will seem a bit like looking back on a monopoly game you played six months ago. And it will still just be opinion. But I'm fine with waiting until the end of the year. We don't really need to fill any more time.

 

[BACCS]

I'm a terrible judge of potential.
Hence my team is so loaded up with older players who have proven what they can do.
Some kids It's obvious there's something there, others that get pumped up, I struggle to see what the fuss is about. Shuey and Gaff are prime examples. Supposedly the second coming, I haven't seen much to be hugely excited about yet.
Zaharakis is another.

Those 3 players you mentioned have all played some outstanding footy. Zaharakis also won the Essendon B&F last year as a goalkicking mid, and is easily a better player than Menzel who everyone on BF loves (and rightly so). Shuey just came 2nd in the RS award and had some ridiculous games in 2011. And then Gaff had a couple of 30 disposal games which made you just scream 'wow', but also had numerous other decent games for a 1st year player. Shuey and Gaff could also nearly be classified goal kicking mids as well (even though Shuey is more of an inside player).

There are plenty of other players you could have chosen to highlight, because those 3 should all be in the top 50 players at some point in their careers.

 

[BACCS]

I also don't get what people are basing their opinion on surrounding Green/Waite vs Westhoff/Hawkins.

Westhoff is barely considering best 22 material on the Port board sometimes, and only averages 1.3 goals a game over his career, with only one 30 goal season (his first in 2007). I wouldn't call an average of 5 marks a game great either from someone playing CHF.

Hawkins statistics mirror that of Westhoff almost to perfection. Not always considered best 22 material, averages 1.4 games over his career with only one 30 goal season, and 5 marks a game.

Green is also very similar (but had more 30 goal years, and also a 50 goal year), but over a 12 year period instead of 5, and that includes years where he played as a mid most of the time.

Waite again has similar averages, but has the problem of injury throughout his career, and the fact he played a swingman role for a few years.

I wouldn't even pick Hawkins/Westhoff on potential, you know what you'll get with them, and Waite/Green have performed just as well over longer periods and in shitter sides. They also have the added benefit of experience and consistency in their performances.

So tell me again Faith, why will Hawkins/Westhoff suddenly outperform Waite/Green in 2012?

 

[FAITH]

I also don't get what people are basing their opinion on surrounding Green/Waite vs Westhoff/Hawkins.

Westhoff is barely considering best 22 material on the Port board sometimes, and only averages 1.3 goals a game over his career, with only one 30 goal season (his first in 2007). I wouldn't call an average of 5 marks a game great either from someone playing CHF.

Hawkins statistics mirror that of Westhoff almost to perfection. Not always considered best 22 material, averages 1.4 games over his career with only one 30 goal season, and 5 marks a game.

Green is also very similar (but had more 30 goal years, and also a 50 goal year), but over a 12 year period instead of 5, and that includes years where he played as a mid most of the time.

Waite again has similar averages, but has the problem of injury throughout his career, and the fact he played a swingman role for a few years.

I wouldn't even pick Hawkins/Westhoff on potential, you know what you'll get with them, and Waite/Green have performed just as well over longer periods and in shitter sides. They also have the added benefit of experience and consistency in their performances.

So tell me again Faith, why will Hawkins/Westhoff suddenly outperform Waite/Green in 2012?

The only consistent thing about Waite is that he will be injured at sometime during the year.
We all know Brad Green is done as an AFL player.

 

[BACCS]

The only consistent thing about Waite is that he will be injured at sometime during the year.
We all know Brad Green is done as an AFL player.

That has to quite possible be the worst rebuttal to an argument that I've ever seen on BF, it can barely even be classified as one! Can't believe people haven't cottoned on to your bullshit yet.

 

[Mego Red]

That has to quite possible be the worst rebuttal to an argument that I've ever seen on BF, it can barely even be classified as one! Can't believe people haven't cottoned on to your bullshit yet.

Settle down, BACCS. It's just a bloody game.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Umm... what?

I really like Waite as a player but he has played 9 -16 -12 games in the last three years. He's about to turn 29. I was keen to take him in the draft game (and would have taken him the next pick I had after you snapped him up) but durability would be a major question.

Green is coming off his worst year of his career and is about to turn 31.

 

[Mego Red]

I agree; I don't think Green is finished, but you can really question someone who raises durability and age. I thought he was polite in not raising that Waite seems a bit of a head case too. If he doesn't pull a hammy, he is running through a bloke.

 

[BACCS]

Settle down, BACCS. It's just a bloody game.

I don't like bullshit artists, Faith is one of those. BF is ****ing serious business!
​

 

[BACCS]

Umm... what?

I really like Waite as a player but he has played 9 -16 -12 games in the last three years. He's about to turn 29. I was keen to take him in the draft game (and would have taken him the next pick I had after you snapped him up) but durability would be a major question.

Green is coming off his worst year of his career and is about to turn 31.

He still kicked more goals than our leading goalkicker, and doesn't always play FF. He copped a lot of shit due to Bailey being a complete ******** with the Melbourne team, he'll bounce back to his 2010 form.

 

[Allefgib]

Well this game has certainly assisted me with forming stronger opinions on certain posters. And no Faith - I don't think you're a bullshit artist.

 

[FAITH]

Well this game has certainly assisted me with forming stronger opinions on certain posters. And no Faith - I don't think you're a bullshit artist.

I actually really like BACCs, his comments make things interesting, its all a bit of fun.
I think he is joking btw

BTW i stand by my comments on Green and Waite, but im sort of over it a little.

 

[BACCS]

I actually really like BACCs, his comments make things interesting, its all a bit of fun.
I think he is joking btw

BTW i stand by my comments on Green and Waite, but im sort of over it a little.

Just wanted to spark a little debate, as the stats clearly showed it wasn't clear cut either way. Anyway, it's all a little fun and I'm pretty sure what I say on here won't change my reputation on BF. I think people clearly know what type of poster I am from a few threads of mine over the years..

 

[FAITH]

Just wanted to spark a little debate, as the stats clearly showed it wasn't clear cut either way. Anyway, it's all a little fun and I'm pretty sure what I say on here won't change my reputation on BF. I think people clearly know what type of poster I am from a few threads of mine over the years..

No problem BACCS had alot of fun
Hopefully we are in the same DT or SC comp, though i doubt it given our results from last year