Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

[Maggie5]

3 years is a long time for an AFL coach, most aren't so lucky.

Mmm, then MM was VERY lucky!

 

[ace andy]

The main difference between you and me is where you thought we were at the end of 2011. Despite what happened during that year I believe that Hawks, Geelong and Sydney had better lists by the end of 2011. Mix that with the fact our game plan was on the way out and it was game over as far as winning the flag.

I like lots of us got caught in the hubris of 2010/11. But on reflection the 2011 prelim against the Hawks and the GF showed that we were on the decline. The talent wasn't there to match the very best.

Our list was fine. None of those 3 teams you listed had lots of great recognised talent in the 18-20 year old categories which is wear you are saying we were weak (I agree). But our young talent from 20-25 was better than all of those teams with an argument for hawthorn being equal. We hardly had any retirees in the couple of years after.

And at the end of 2011 even 2012 (considering our performance with injuries) we were certainly capable of winning a grand final. Saying we couldn't is rubbish to retrospectively justify our poor performances now. Why can't you accept that the team was positioned well but certain players intensity, enjoyment, injury and confidence dropped off causing their careers to faulter. But it didn't HAVE to be that way.

 

[Old Spice]

Our list was fine. None of those 3 teams you listed had lots of great recognised talent in the 18-20 year old categories which is wear you are saying we were weak (I agree). But our young talent from 20-25 was better than all of those teams with an argument for hawthorn being equal. We hardly had any retirees in the couple of years after.

And at the end of 2011 even 2012 (considering our performance with injuries) we were certainly capable of winning a grand final. Saying we couldn't is rubbish to retrospectively justify our poor performances now. Why can't you accept that the team was positioned well but certain players intensity, enjoyment, injury and confidence dropped off causing their careers to faulter. But it didn't HAVE to be that way.

That's a pretty obscure argument, which 20-25 year old Pies were superior to Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong. Can you give us a break-down?

 

[surfer1]

Our list was fine. None of those 3 teams you listed had lots of great recognised talent in the 18-20 year old categories which is wear you are saying we were weak (I agree). But our young talent from 20-25 was better than all of those teams with an argument for hawthorn being equal. We hardly had any retirees in the couple of years after.

And at the end of 2011 even 2012 (considering our performance with injuries) we were certainly capable of winning a grand final. Saying we couldn't is rubbish to retrospectively justify our poor performances now. Why can't you accept that the team was positioned well but certain players intensity, enjoyment, injury and confidence dropped off causing their careers to faulter. But it didn't HAVE to be that way.

Well don't keep us hanging why didn't it have to be that way, mmm let me guess does it start with a B and end with a Y

 

[ace andy]

Well don't keep us hanging why didn't it have to be that way, mmm let me guess does it start with a B and end with a Y

Not everyone is only able to see the world in back and white or Malthouse vs Buckley.

Im not arguing for blame on the deterioration of the players we had. Rather than notion hat the team wasn't in a good position at the end of 2011.

 

[ace andy]

That's a pretty obscure argument, which 20-25 year old Pies were superior to Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong. Can you give us a break-down?

For starters I only used that age bracket because ClaytonM was stating our list was not prepared for the future. I left our the 18-20 years old because I agreed that ours were NOT (Edited this) that good. I didn't include players like Wellingham and dawes because they were not stars.

Only included players who were genuine stars in 2011. Was very generous to the swans since Reid and Jetta weren't great at this stage.

Reid, Obrien, Sidebottom, Beams, Thomas, Shaw, Cloke, Pendlebury were all genuine stars at the time. I like you to name 8 other genuine B+ to A graders in those other teams at the time in that age range.

Geelong - Selwood, Taylor, Hawkins, Mackie

Hawthorn- Roughhead, Lewis, Franklin, Gibson, Birchall, Rioli

Swans- Kennedy, Mcveigh, Mumford, Reid, Hannebury, Jetta.

 

[surfer1]

Not everyone is only able to see the world in back and white or Malthouse vs Buckley.

Im not arguing for blame on the deterioration of the players we had. Rather than notion hat the team wasn't in a good position at the end of 2011.

Fair enough

 

[jmac70]

Ok jmac Ill repeat it yet again. An effective gameplan, the ability to motivate players, no more ridiculous team selections, to get the team players playing for one another as a cohesive unit, to be able to man manage different players and not simply dump them because he cannot get the best out of them etc. The player exodus has been extraordinary under his reign and it needs to stop. The list goes on.

Ive always said if we lose we lose but its the way we lose that matters.

I am very confident we will see significant improvement in all the areas you have mentioned.

 

[Old Spice]

For starters I only used that age bracket because ClaytonM was stating our list was not prepared for the future. I left our the 18-20 years old because I agreed that ours were that good. I didn't include players like Wellingham and dawes because they were not stars.

Only included players who were genuine stars in 2011. Was very generous to the swans since Reid and Jetta weren't great at this stage.

Reid, Obrien, Sidebottom, Beams, Thomas, Shaw, Cloke, Pendlebury were all genuine stars at the time. I like you to name 8 other genuine B+ to A graders in those other teams at the time in that age range.

Geelong - Selwood, Taylor, Hawkins, Mackie

Hawthorn- Roughhead, Lewis, Franklin, Gibson, Birchall, Rioli

Swans- Kennedy, Mcveigh, Mumford, Reid, Hannebury, Jetta.

Nothing Clayton mentioned in his post said anything about specific age-brackets, that seems to be your very specific add-on. You also added Geelong to the argument in classic Bigfooty non-sequiter style which is hardly relevant to a discussion which was in actual fact about competitors to the flag in year 2011 to present. On Geelong - which is not really about future flags in that era but experienced players getting another while they were at their full maturity - they remained a more experienced team in 2011 and beat us.

In terms of relevance to 2012 on, Sydney and Hawthorn, they also are seasoned clubs in terms of age and experience profiles.

It's rare for young teams who pinch a flag to go on with the job. Some players and supporters alike seem to get drunk on the bath water.

 

[ace andy]

Nothing Clayton mentioned in his post said anything about specific age-brackets, that seems to be your very specific add-on. You also added Geelong to the argument in classic Bigfooty non-sequiter style which is hardly relevant to a discussion which was in actual fact about competitors to the flag in year 2011 to present. On Geelong - which is not really about future flags in that era but experienced players getting another while they were at their full maturity - they remained a more experienced team in 2011 and beat us.

In terms of relevance to 2012 on, Sydney and Hawthorn, they also are seasoned clubs in terms of age and experience profiles.

It's rare for young teams who pinch a flag to go on with the job. Some players and supporters alike seem to get drunk on the bath water.

Um Geelong is relevant because he sated they were better placed to continue competing for flags for years after 2011. He said they and better lists for the future (next few years) so I took that to mean he thought the players who had many years in the tank were better.

 

[Anzacday]

After Sydney smashed us, (I was there and very proud of their effort though) that flicked a switch in the mind of Bucks that we weren't up to it.
He made tough/brave, (some to this day call stupid) decisions about our list.
He/we have been cruelled by injury with a young list, (2012 injury rate was high too but we had more experience).
For mine he gets the remaining 2 years on his contract then we can review.
If we have an injury free season and perform abysmally this year then it's open for discussion at the end of 2015.
'til then lets focus on what we have ahead with an exciting young list and a few guns.

Rant over

 

[Old Spice]

Um Geelong is relevant because he sated they were better placed to continue competing for flags for years after 2011. He said they and better lists for the future (next few years) so I took that to mean he thought the players who had many years in the tank were better.

Geelong certainly had our measure in 2011.

I think we had a very solid list, but it's a pity so many became such arse-wipes. Thomas with his coaches box finger pointing, Shaw with his sideline remonstrating, Beams with his...

Thomas' behaviour in particular is utterly cringeworthy. It's like bad teenage poetry which people will see forever. These guys all got ahead of themselves like Jake King and will remain dills for many supporters.

 

[Anzacday]

Thomas with his coaches box finger pointing

I have read about this many times and still haven't seen it.
Does anybody have footage of it please?

 

[Hagla]

This is the most annoying thread, I really wish I could hit an ignore button for threads... I know I don't need to come in here, but it's almost always up the top of our forum.

 

[Anzacday]

I wish there was an ignore thread button

This is the most annoying thread, I really wish I could hit an ignore button for threads... I know I don't need to come in here, but it's almost always up the top of our forum.

Great minds...

 

[Kappa]

Great minds...

There is an ignore thread button, it's called not clicking on this thread

 

[Hagla]

There is an ignore thread button, it's called not clicking on this thread

Translation - there isn't an ignore thread button... I named this non existent ignore thread button "not clicking on this thread", I then put a confused face at the end of my quote to make your post look silly. This inadvertently raises my own Bigfooty intellect and posting credibility.

 

[Kappa]

Translation - there isn't an ignore thread button... I named this non existent ignore thread button "not clicking on this thread", I then put a confused face at the end of my quote to make your post look silly. This inadvertently raises my own Bigfooty intellect and posting credibility.

Thank you for translating English into English while trying to make my post look silly and at the same time raising your Bigfooty intellect.

People who act like they are forced to post here...

 

[Hagla]

Thank you for translating English into English while trying to make my post look silly and at the same time raising your Bigfooty intellect.

People who act like they are forced to post here...

Thanks for the compliment

 

[Anzacday]

People who act like they are forced to post here...

I wasn't talking about this thread when I posted, it was a general observation.
I'm one of those who doesn't like unread emails if you get my drift.

 

[ClaytonM]

Our list was fine. None of those 3 teams you listed had lots of great recognised talent in the 18-20 year old categories which is wear you are saying we were weak (I agree). But our young talent from 20-25 was better than all of those teams with an argument for hawthorn being equal. We hardly had any retirees in the couple of years after.

And at the end of 2011 even 2012 (considering our performance with injuries) we were certainly capable of winning a grand final. Saying we couldn't is rubbish to retrospectively justify our poor performances now. Why can't you accept that the team was positioned well but certain players intensity, enjoyment, injury and confidence dropped off causing their careers to faulter. But it didn't HAVE to be that way.

Because I do not think the team was positioned well. As I said we had an ageing core group, injuries to key players, and poor draft picks in the years leading up to 2012.

 

[ClaytonM]

After Sydney smashed us, (I was there and very proud of their effort though) that flicked a switch in the mind of Bucks that we weren't up to it.
He made tough/brave, (some to this day call stupid) decisions about our list.
He/we have been cruelled by injury with a young list, (2012 injury rate was high too but we had more experience).
For mine he gets the remaining 2 years on his contract then we can review.
If we have an injury free season and perform abysmally this year then it's open for discussion at the end of 2015.
'til then lets focus on what we have ahead with an exciting young list and a few guns.

Rant over

I think this best represents my position. If things go badly this year, or the progress of our young group of high draft picks is too slow over the next two years then Buckley's position should be under consideration. But until then any move to remove Buckley would only make things worse.

 

[10571z]

I think bucks is on the right track. time for improvement though. Fasolo, Sinclair ect need to start showing us something and pushing the list forward if they are going to stay on it. I want to see the kids improving as well.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I think bucks is on the right track. time for improvement though. Fasolo, Sinclair ect need to start showing us something and pushing the list forward if they are going to stay on it. I want to see the kids improving as well.

Buckley has a decent list, plently of guys that should be ready to take the next step like those two you've mentioned. Still don't think the players respond to him though. We will see.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Mmm, then MM was VERY lucky!

He wasn't lucky that he put us in to numerous GFs and Prelims. That's not luck.