The Away Factor

[Juddy88]

Seriously, how can it make that much of a difference?

I understand we are a young side but what is it now, 18 losses in a row on the road? There is no excuse for that.

How can we put in the effort we did last week at Subi, and then come out the following week and play like that? It is baffling.

I understand we are used to Subi but surely a ground cannot make that much difference. A 4-5 hour plane trip can't be used as an excuse either.

What is going on? Has it become very much a mental thing? How can we change this? Or will it just "come naturally" when the young players gain more experience on different AFL grounds.

Coming up we have Port, Western Bulldogs and Adelaide on the road. I can't see us winning any of these, which will send us into next year with 21 straight defeats on the road.

Not the best burden to be carrying into a new season.

 

[bunsen burner]

Seriously, how can it make that much of a difference?

Always has, always will. You need to harden up and accept it.

Maybe you have a short memory? Early 2005 the general opinion was that the Eagles couldn't win the flag because we couldn't win on the road. Yep, as late as 2004 we were disgraceful on the road. Subi was a fortress but every fortnight we played shocking footy on the road.

Why do the reasons matter? And why are you worried about this now? The cycle for West Coast flags is pretty much set in stone:

1. Lose everywhere
2. Subi fortress, can't win away
3. Subi fortress, start winning away
4. Win everywhere, flag contention
5. Win flag

wtf would you be even thinking about away form considering the phase of the cycle we are in? The people who are with the program are monitoring subi and waiting for it to be called a fortress again.

 

[Juddy88]

Maybe you have a short memory? Early 2005 the general opinion was that the Eagles couldn't win the flag because we couldn't win on the road. Yep, as late as 2004 we were disgraceful on the road. Subi was a fortress but every fortnight we played shocking footy on the road.

1. Lose everywhere
2. Subi fortress, can't win away
3. Subi fortress, start winning away
4. Win everywhere, flag contention
5. Win flag

When was the last time we lost 21 in a row on the road?

You think just because the above happened before, it will happen again?

 

[BlueandGoldforever]

Always has, always will. You need to harden up and accept it.

Maybe you have a short memory? Early 2005 the general opinion was that the Eagles couldn't win the flag because we couldn't win on the road. Yep, as late as 2004 we were disgraceful on the road. Subi was a fortress but every fortnight we played shocking footy on the road.

Why do the reasons matter? And why are you worried about this now? The cycle for West Coast flags is pretty much set in stone:

1. Lose everywhere
2. Subi fortress, can't win away
3. Subi fortress, start winning away
4. Win everywhere, flag contention
5. Win flag

wtf would you be even thinking about away form considering the phase of the cycle we are in? The people who are with the program are monitoring subi and waiting for it to be called a fortress again.

For the record we won four games on the road in 2004 and lost another by less than a goal. I would hardly call that 'disgraceful'. I mean if that is disgraceful, how would you describe our record in 2008 and 2009 on the road?

 

[bunsen burner]

When was the last time we lost 21 in a row on the road?

Not sure why you insist this is irrelevant? Perhaps your total lack of foresight and insight into the game?

You think just because the above happened before, it will happen again?

Like clockwork. the only one up for debate is phase 5 - and that may depend on how well we have drafted, injuries, or whether we are good enough on the day etc.

There is absolutely no doubt that Subi will be a fortress before we start winning regulalrly way, and that we won't be a genuine contender until we are also winning regularly away.

 

[Eagle87]

When was the last time we lost 21 in a row on the road?

You think just because the above happened before, it will happen again?

This is our longest streak, the previous one was 13.

That said, we should have beaten Sydney and all this talk is behind us and similarly we were a real chance v Brisbane. The streak is overplayed - the reality is when we are poor its hard to win, winning away is just harder again.

When we improve we will still look better at home than away but we will start winning away more regularly. When we are genuine premiership contenders again, we will start taking away wins for granted.

 

[bunsen burner]

For the record we won four games on the road in 2004 and lost another by less than a goal. I would hardly call that 'disgraceful'. I mean if that is disgraceful, how would you describe our record in 2008 and 2009 on the road?

From memory 3 of those wins were right at the end of the season when we started to be the full package. Before that everyone lamented our away form. It's the exact pattern I was talking about.

 

[Marlin01]

Early 2005 the general opinion was that the Eagles couldn't win the flag because we couldn't win on the road.

Geez that would annoy me. Tony Shaw and his Vic-centric mates, trying to convince themselves the Cup wouldn't be heading west yet again. The same blokes would also say "I just can't see where the Eagles goal are going to come from," despite us having 13-15 goal scorers each week.

It's impossible to say the cause of the away factor, but our club's history shows it is real.

 

[wirra44]

yeah melbourne and us are currently closing down on the record

21: Sydney: Round 9, 1992 to Round 6,1994

18: Melbourne: Round 16, 2006 to current

18: West Coast QF, 2007 to current

 

[bunsen burner]

removed

In 2004 for many supporters were crying like bitches regarding our away form. Before that they were crying about our form in 2001 under KJ. Then in 2006 we won the flag.

We are going through the exact same pattern, yet these dumb either don't see it or can't help themselves acting like 13 yo irrational school girls.

let me repeat the program:

1. Lose everywhere
2. Turn Subi into a fortress, lose away
3. Subi still fortress, start winning away
4. Win everywhere and be genuine flag threat
5. Hopefully win flag.

You go have a look at all 3 flags and the same pattern is evident. So when we're clearly in phase 1, why people are carrying on like marshmallows because we are not skipping steps 2 and 3 and arriving at step 4 is laughable. These people just show themselves as pussies who either don't understand footy, or are so neurotic they can't handle it.

Some people here, you included, need to man up. We're one of the most successful and envied clubs in the country and as soon as we have to go into that inevitable downturn you lose your bundle and start babbling like babies.

 

[TroyUgle]

I don't suffer fools are there are many on this board (you being one of them).

In 2004 for many supporters were crying like bitches regarding our away form. Before that they were crying about our form in 2001 under KJ. Then in 2006 we won the flag.

We are going through the exact same pattern, yet these dumb either don't see it or can't help themselves acting like 13 yo irrational school girls.

let me repeat the program:

1. Lose everywhere
2. Turn Subi into a fortress, lose away
3. Subi still fortress, start winning away
4. Win everywhere and be genuine flag threat
5. Hopefully win flag.

You go have a look at all 3 flags and the same pattern is evident. So when we're clearly in phase 1, why people are carrying on like marshmallows because we are not skipping steps 2 and 3 and arriving at step 4 is laughable. These people just show themselves as pussies who either don't understand footy, or are so neurotic they can't handle it.

Some people here, you included, need to man up. We're one of the most successful and envied clubs in the country and as soon as we have to go into that inevitable downturn you lose your bundle and start babbling like babies.

Well who are we to argue with logic like that Bunsen Burner, clearly what has happened in the past will happen again in the future, and we should all bow down before your vast and infinitely superior football knowledge and foresight...

 

[eagles06]

Well i have to say I was very disappointed at yesterdays effort. Been to all the games in Victoria in the past few years and 2 years without a win is pretty tough. So if we don't start winning games next year I will be very pissed off, but all signs point to improvement on the road next year.

 

[jazou]

....

let me repeat the program:

1. Lose everywhere
2. Turn Subi into a fortress, lose away
3. Subi still fortress, start winning away
4. Win everywhere and be genuine flag threat
5. Hopefully win flag.

the only thing that concerns me is that Phase 1 seems to be lasting a while - hopefully Phase 4 & 5 go on for a few years as well

 

[KTee]

As with the orginal poster, I am not convinced with the traditional excuses/reasons given for losing away. Notwithstanding we are in a certain phase of a redevelopment cycle I have to raise a question mark around our game plan. And no, I am no expert on the intracies of the game but I was intrigued to read an article by Nathan Buckley in March of this year: http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/nathan-buckley/2009/03/20/1237526331272.html

And a quick quote from it....
"It seems that one result, and perhaps one great Hodge performance, has turned that upside down and there is almost unanimous belief that midfield zones are the way to go. I'm not so sure.
Teams that choose to execute a rolling zone this year but don't possess a Hodge-like player - and few do - will walk into a minefield that will cause more pain than gain."

His article and views beg the question whether it is a case of our players not being skilled enough at this point to execute our zoning game plan or... whether indeed we have the wrong plan

 

[bunsen burner]

the only thing that concerns me is that Phase 1 seems to be lasting a while - hopefully Phase 4 & 5 go on for a few years as well

2008 + 2009. That's not that long. Yet. But I think the only way we will complete phase 5 (ie win the flag) is have these 2 years right down the bottom. It's a small price to pay. Imagine being Ninthmond and have no joy for over a quarter of a century. Or Fremantle <s******><s******>.

 

[bunsen burner]

His article and views beg the question whether it is a case of our players not being skilled enough at this point to execute our zoning game plan or... whether indeed we have the wrong plan

Buckley and yourself raise a very valid point. Teams can either play game plans that suit their talent level and change it as they improve in talent, or they can implement the grand daddy game plan and just sit tight until they can finally pull it off. The latter is the short term pain to maximise long term gain.

 

[bali-dog]

youre quite right bunsenburner about the cycle..even the 92-94 boys had the same dilemna-especially them..
i wonder how freo rate with away games compared to us..

its curious as we in the west have to travel the furtherest, on a more regular basis? followed by the lions?..melb teams seem to have it much easier playing amongst themselves-why is that so again-isnt there some form of compensation for travelling long distances regularly on a fortnightly basis?
wosoha says the problem is mental..with all the fitness staff caring for them,youd think it wouldnt be physical...however catch a redeye special,and see how you feel the next day!! there is definitely something about flying back in time,that saps your energy..

that said,the guys played a rugged muscle sapping game against the Hawks..and (they got cleaned up this weekend too) you just kind of knew the eagles wouldnt be totally switched on..what annoyed me the most,and i had to stay up til 3.30am to watch misery..was the return of basic skill errors+shoddy 2ndrate play..

i'm really grateful for the hawks game-recorded-as that gives me a glimpse of whats coming on a good day! and hopefully the subi fortress days are not far away..very happy to win nearly every 2nd game of the season.

am liking kennedy a lot with each game..more so than mckinley..kennedy looks and plays like he's switched on..mckinley looks not quite there(and is a confidence player?)

have always liked rosas style from what ive seen before in 06/07, thought he would settle in,and come good..too much expectations on nicknat..he's just gotta settle in naturally..anyway i reckon just think of all those guys with the experience of the rest of this season,and then a preseason under their belts - coming out for the 1st game of 2010..'should' be hugely improved?