The B team.

[Bojangles17]

completely wrong about edwards, he had a breakout year playing as an outside mid (avg~20possies), drifting forward and kicked some very nice goals just quietly, has plenty of tools in the kit bag in pace, evasiveness, vision and ball handling to make his mark and be around for quite some time yet...would dearly love us to have a list that was bristling with enough talent that would leave him out of the side but I gotta tellya mr claws there aint a side out there he wouldnt have got a game with in 2010

 

[santa claws]

You were hoping we would Rookie list him ???? ... and all of a sudden he is a better ruck option than Graham ?




Despite having only playing one year in the Waffle , you have descerned that he is ready to make the quantum leap straight to AFL




Are you his life-coach ?



... Wont argue with that , obviously why we have recruited him



Lets let Dimma decide hey

imo and thats all it is. there are many better long term prospects about the place than graham.
yep i thought he would last to the rookie draft as nearly all clubs have established ruckmen and have no need to waste nd picks on 23 yr old ruckmen. did any club take sewell despite him being the standout player at vfl level.

simply put i think derickx has better attributes than graham to play afl footy.
i still believe we needed to take another young ruck as well as derickx.

hmm what do i discern. well the fact is derickx is 23 hes big bodied agile and a good footballer. the thinking is to get games into him and find out if he can play afl at 23 yrs of age rather than persevere with a player who i think has no long term future.
i dont know if he can play afl but the thinking is he can do no worse than angus. and with his attributes hope he can do better. most on here pick a 20 yo very skinny undersized shit scared vickery to play seniors and yet you bemoan a mature bodied derickx getting a go.

finally no im not his lfe coach just a bit of common sense being applied at 23 he is more mature in body and mind than a 18 yo.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

imo and thats all it is. there are many better long term prospects about the place than graham.
yep i thought he would last to the rookie draft as nearly all clubs have established ruckmen and have no need to waste nd picks on 23 yr old ruckmen. did any club take sewell despite him being the standout player at vfl level.

simply put i think derickx has better attributes than graham to play afl footy.
i still believe we needed to take another young ruck as well as derickx.

hmm what do i discern. well the fact is derickx is 23 hes big bodied agile and a good footballer. the thinking is to get games into him and find out if he can play afl at 23 yrs of age rather than persevere with a player who i think has no long term future.
i dont know if he can play afl but the thinking is he can do no worse than angus. and with his attributes hope he can do better. most on here pick a 20 yo very skinny undersized shit scared vickery to play seniors and yet you bemoan a mature bodied derickx getting a go.

finally no im not his lfe coach just a bit of common sense being applied at 23 he is more mature in body and mind than a 18 yo.

Claws - you talk about having seen Derickx and then make very sweeping blanket statements about his size and don't actually state much about his playing style - despite the fact that he's big and tough and moves alright - all this was evident in his highlights.

What are his strengths and weaknesses from what you've seen - apart from his bulk and age?

You've compared him and Graham and started off by stating that he's mature aged and therefore mature in mind as well. Graham is a similar age, what makes you think he's more mature in both mind and body than Graham?

 

[Rayzorwire]

Are you his life-coach ?

Gold...

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

...am i the only one here that likes webberley?!?!...

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

...am i the only one here that likes webberley?!?!...

Definitely not. I'm a fan - think Jez has a few more gears than people are giving him credit for. Give him some time to settle into the system.

 

[meltiger]

i still believe we needed to take another young ruck as well as derickx.

Just on this, with the changes coming up and 3 interchanges, one replacement etc etc, how many rucks do we think we need to have on the list?

Would you not agree the way forward is one ruckman in the 22 (So Gus or Derickx for example), and a forward who can pinch hit (Such us Ty) where necesary? On that basis, how many would you carry within your list?


Long term, I simply can't see teams carrying 2 genuine rucks, unless one of them happens to be a Cox, or an Ottens etc

 

[Madtiger2006]

...am i the only one here that likes webberley?!?!...

No. I have him in my Round 1 team

 

[Vitriol]

Just on this, with the changes coming up and 3 interchanges, one replacement etc etc, how many rucks do we think we need to have on the list?

Would you not agree the way forward is one ruckman in the 22 (So Gus or Derickx for example), and a forward who can pinch hit (Such us Ty) where necesary? On that basis, how many would you carry within your list?


Long term, I simply can't see teams carrying 2 genuine rucks, unless one of them happens to be a Cox, or an Ottens etc

Yep would agree with this. Dimma said this morning we would probably only be taking one ruckman with TV and/or Post playing forward and pinch hitting in the ruck when needed

Seems to me the new interchange rules are going to make it harder to develop young rucks as teams will be inclined to take another midfield rotation over a second ruckman who can only play limited gametime.

I guess you just don't rate Graham claws? why is that? imo he is a very promising looking player.

 

[juss]

In regards to Graham, and ruckmen in general, here are the all australian rucks since 2001 and their age at the time, taken from Wikipedia.

2010 Sandilands(28)/Jamar(27)
2009 Sandilands(27)/Goodes(29)
2008 Cox(27)/Sandilands(26)
2007 Cox(26)/Lade(30)
2006 Lade(29)/Cox(25)
2005 Cox(24)
2004 White(26)
2003 Goodes(23)/Gardiner(23)
2002 Primus(26)
2001 Primus(25)

As you can see, the youngest their are Goodes and Gardiner at 23.
Most are in their mid - late 20s. This is the peak time for ruckmen.
What this shows us is that ruckmen take time to hit their peak, and the best ruckmen in the comp are older more developed guys. Graham is only 23. Most of those guys at the same age wouldn't have been significantly better, granted some were.

For 23 years of age, I think Graham has done impressively well and continued to improve each year. As he gets older, he will get better, that's how it goes with big men.

 

[santa claws]

Just on this, with the changes coming up and 3 interchanges, one replacement etc etc, how many rucks do we think we need to have on the list?

Would you not agree the way forward is one ruckman in the 22 (So Gus or Derickx for example), and a forward who can pinch hit (Such us Ty) where necesary? On that basis, how many would you carry within your list?


Long term, I simply can't see teams carrying 2 genuine rucks, unless one of them happens to be a Cox, or an Ottens etc

if vickery plays in the pocket and one of graham and derickx plays in the ruck we will effectively be playing two ruckmen. vickery is a ruckman i cant see him in the short term playing as a forward. if we do we had damn well better play two genuine kpfs.
if we were talking a key forward to pinch hit in the ruck to me the obvious choice would be griffiths in time.

with natainui and cox wce still used pick 29 on another ruckman why is that.
do you think wce will play only one of nicnat or cox.will brisbane play only one of charman and leuenberger. or carlton only one of kruezer and warnock.
imo i reckon many clubs will still play two ruckmen and the sub will be a fresh mid.
it wasnt so long ago we had just two interchange players yet we had two ruckmen.

why do i want another ruckman. simple quality quality quality of the existing ruckmen on the list and the likelyhood of them making it.

my perspective is graham is not good enough i consider him a dinosaur. vickery has a loooonnnngggg way to go and browne has come from the rookie list. interesting that we took derickx dont you think and even more interesting the club has said it would have taken lycett if available in the nd.

anyway just my perceptions. im not one to follow the pack blindly. imo if the interchange is reduced dramatically i reckon the well rounded ruckman will come more into his own rather than his role diminishing. we will see time will reveal all.

 

[Bojangles17]

interesting in dimmas interview he hinted that with the new interchange he sees the death of two rucks with sides favouring 1 ruck and a pinch hitter like what he did with posty late this season

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

if vickery plays in the pocket and one of graham and derickx plays in the ruck we will effectively be playing two ruckmen. vickery is a ruckman i cant see him in the short term playing as a forward. if we do we had damn well better play two genuine kpfs.
if we were talking a key forward to pinch hit in the ruck to me the obvious choice would be griffiths in time.

with natainui and cox wce still used pick 29 on another ruckman why is that.
do you think wce will play only one of nicnat or cox.will brisbane play only one of charman and leuenberger. or carlton only one of kruezer and warnock.
imo i reckon many clubs will still play two ruckmen and the sub will be a fresh mid.
it wasnt so long ago we had just two interchange players yet we had two ruckmen.

why do i want another ruckman. simple quality quality quality of the existing ruckmen on the list and the likelyhood of them making it.

my perspective is graham is not good enough i consider him a dinosaur. vickery has a loooonnnngggg way to go and browne has come from the rookie list. interesting that we took derickx dont you think and even more interesting the club has said it would have taken lycett if available in the nd.

anyway just my perceptions. im not one to follow the pack blindly. imo if the interchange is reduced dramatically i reckon the well rounded ruckman will come more into his own rather than his role diminishing. we will see time will reveal all.

Cox is almost finished, thats why they tried to throw him up for trade & Carlton have already stated Kruezer will be spending more time fwd next yr. A well rounded ruckmen as you've stated is a rare breed (some one who is over 200 cm but still play like a quality link man). Hence I think we will see more & more KP players converted in part time ruckmen.

 

[_RT_]

if vickery plays in the pocket and one of graham and derickx plays in the ruck we will effectively be playing two ruckmen. vickery is a ruckman i cant see him in the short term playing as a forward. if we do we had damn well better play two genuine kpfs.
if we were talking a key forward to pinch hit in the ruck to me the obvious choice would be griffiths in time.

Pretty sure thats the plan, except expect Post to be the one playing second ruck.

with natainui and cox wce still used pick 29 on another ruckman why is that.
do you think wce will play only one of nicnat or cox.will brisbane play only one of charman and leuenberger. or carlton only one of kruezer and warnock.
imo i reckon many clubs will still play two ruckmen and the sub will be a fresh mid.
it wasnt so long ago we had just two interchange players yet we had two ruckmen.

Dimma mentioned on radio yesterday that he thought the sub rule will kill off the traditional second ruckman. Expects to see more club using/turning players into ruckmen/forwards. Also mentioned that we had been experimenting with that setup in the last month of the season with Post playing KPF, then pushing into the ruck.

why do i want another ruckman. simple quality quality quality of the existing ruckmen on the list and the likelyhood of them making it.

Most of our current rucks have yet to play 3 full seasons in the ruck and yet you seem to be writing them off. I thought you said that talls need time to develop and grow into the bodies.

my perspective is graham is not good enough i consider him a dinosaur. vickery has a loooonnnngggg way to go and browne has come from the rookie list. interesting that we took derickx dont you think and even more interesting the club has said it would have taken lycett if available in the nd.

You maybe right about Graham, time will tell, but if the training report from earlier this week is anything to go by Derickx is also a long way off as he was well beaten by Graham in match simulation. Odds are is we had of landed Lycett we wouldn't have taken Derickx as well.

anyway just my perceptions. im not one to follow the pack blindly. imo if the interchange is reduced dramatically i reckon the well rounded ruckman will come more into his own rather than his role diminishing. we will see time will reveal all.

As mentioned Dimma has already forcast that we wont be playing 2 traditional ruckman and that we'll be working on developing Vickery into a forward that can play ruck as well. Interesting times ahead in 2011 to say the least, especially when it comes to seeing which way works best.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

.i reckon the well rounded ruckman will come more into his own rather than his role diminishing. we will see time will reveal all

...

...am not sure what a well rounded ruckman means......

...unless you look at the bodies of former ruckmen in 'monkey' 'barmy' 'galloping gasometer' post afl careers, certainly no diminishment in physicality occurring there......

...their is a case to be put forward that both gardiner from wce and ottens were more dangerous as forwards than ruckmen...

...gardiner because of his marking and ottens because of his kicking for goal...

...and as for goodes he was more an atheletic ruckrover as his two brownlows indicate......

...primus was one dimensional as a ruckman...no marking/kicking skills here just raw bullocking power at stoppages...

...white was good all over the ground...but his kicking let him down...

...cox is injury prone...sandilands is just a massive unit too big to get around/thro...jamar?!?!...jolley?!?...inconsistent maybe...lade?!?...late bloomer forward/ruck...

...i think vickery given time may end up well rounded.......

 

[CallMeAl]

Because ruckman take longer to come on, those that dont actually make it clog up lists for longer.

Expect to see less young rucks taken in the ND, but rather as rookies, as well as more mature age rucks plucked from state leagues.

 

[captain blood 17]

I don't understand why people don't rate Nason. He is a best 22 player everyday of the week. He was (in my opinion) our second best recruit last year behind Martin. The kid kicked goals when it mattered, ran all day (i think he was covering over 20km's a game?) and is skilled under pressure. Edwards definately best 22. And at the moment Graham is our number one ruck, with Post and Vickery the "pinch" hitters with the new interchange rule. But a fair squad in the magoos is taking shape, no doubt about it.

 

[Matty Knights]

...am i the only one here that likes webberley?!?!...

I rate him highly.