Unsolved The Beaumont Children

[BlueE]

Then victim now has proof of being at the Women's branch that night like he stated previously. Police have it on record & the victim has his own hard copy

Can you remind us again what he witnessed?

 

[Odog]

May pay to read through this thread also. There would seem to be a prime suspect in police sights now and it isn't the Satin Man. Also when viewing the early days of the investigation you need to take into account how the police department operated in the 60's, the lack of specialised resources available to them then compared to now and the fact that this was really the first crime of its type in the state. The Glenelg police were well out of their depth but really through no fault of their own. A lot changed after the BC.

Who? Munro ?


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[Willow weeps]

Can you remind us again what he witnessed?

from what I can remember, the Beaumont kids in the house alive & dead. I think the rapes but unsure of the killings, it was an update from the petition updates though

 

[FR0GGY]

I think its McIntyres daughter that claims there are tunnels that run under and between houses in Melrose Park, that got used for trafficking children.
Freaky stuff.

 

[Killer Power]

Who? Munro ?


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Yep

 

[Killer Power]

I still think - if the BC were individualised more - that we'd see a lot of focus on Jane and Arnna and less on Grant. Simply because of their sex.

So you are somehow offended by something that may or may not happen but only if something else were to happen first?

 

[Belushi Brassiere]

its "Missing White Women Syndrome". That's why there'd be more focus on Jane and Arnna.

 

[Opine]

I think I saw the doco. Might have to rewatch it

Do you have any information on the vehicle he drove at the time (1966) ?

Coober Pedy does have a reputation as a place that bodies can disappear forever

He doesn't fit the age/physical description of the man who was seen with the children shortly before their disappearance; he was 19 at that time.
There is no evidence linking him to the BC, other than his response to a direct question, by a journalist, as to whether he was involved; to which he replied that based on legal advice he was not going to elaborate on his whereabouts around the time of abduction.
Police have apparently discounted him as a suspect.

 

[Visions]

He doesn't fit the age/physical description of the man who was seen with the children shortly before their disappearance; he was 19 at that time.
There is no evidence linking him to the BC, other than his response to a direct question, by a journalist, as to whether he was involved; to which he replied that based on legal advice he was not going to elaborate on his whereabouts around the time of abduction.
Police have apparently discounted him as a suspect.

Thats the thing. There are a lot of conflicting reports, where some talk about seeing the children with an older man in his thirties and then some say they were with a younger man.

Munro fits the younger man version while McIntyre fits the older man account. Also makes plenty of sense that there was more than just one person involved. Would be very difficult, almost impossible for one person to control 3 kids in a disappearance you would think.

 

[Opine]

Thats the thing. There are a lot of conflicting reports, where some talk about seeing the children with an older man in his thirties and then some say they were with a younger man.

Munro fits the younger man version while McIntyre fits the older man account. Also makes plenty of sense that there was more than just one person involved. Would be very difficult, almost impossible for one person to control 3 kids in a disappearance you would think.

Ah ok, a fresh look at the evidence is a good thing.

By younger man i assume your talking about the witness who came forward in May 2015; stating that he had seen Jane with a younger man who drove a distinctive car all those years ago?. I wasn't aware of any other credible sightings of the suspect being a younger man.

 

[BlueE]

Ah ok, a fresh look at the evidence is a good thing.

By younger man i assume your talking about the witness who came forward in May 2015; stating that he had seen Jane with a younger man who drove a distinctive car all those years ago?. I wasn't aware of any other credible sightings of the suspect being a younger man.

There is a very good link with many sources of information on this thread. I'll look for it and post it.

By reading the news paper reports, witness on the beach saw the children with a young blonde man wearing European type bathers, just like a picture floating around of Munroe, 19 years old.

There were also reports of a middle aged man in blue speedo type bathers with a white stripe down the side. Brown hair. He walked away after putting his trousers on, with a towel but no shirt. This matched a description of McIntyre and what he was wearing on the day (from what McIntyre's children reported).
This would be confusing if you were looking for one person, but could have been two men that were with them on the beach before they disapeared.

The later witness you're talking about, who was 19 and about to go into camp to be posted to Vietnam at the time described talking someone that could have been Jane (he thought she was a couple of years older as she seemed mature in her conversation) and briefly to a young man around his age, wearing European type bathers who then got into a "distinctive car" with the three children. He wasn't driving the car. The witness provided a detailed description of the car, which hasn't been released to the public as far as I'm aware.

 

[BlueE]

This link includes a lot on archived information. http://web.archive.org/web/20131215054822/http://www.beaumontchildren.com/index.html
Click on the highlighted links for further information.

Doesn't includes the recent Vietnam vets 2015 witnesses statement.

This is interesting as well.
"Mr and Mrs Beaumont described their children, particularly Jane, as shy. For them to be playing so confidently with a stranger seemed out of character. Investigators theorised that the children had perhaps met the man during a previous visit or visits and had grown to trust him. A chance remark at home, which seemed nothing significant at the time, supports this theory. Arnna had told her mother that Jane had "got a boyfriend down the beach". Mrs Beaumont thought she meant a playmate and took no further notice until after the disappearance.

Several months later a woman reported that on the night of the disappearance a man, accompanied by two girls and a boy, entered a neighbouring house that she had believed empty. Later she had seen the boy walking alone along a lane where he was pursued and roughly caught by the man. The next morning the house appeared to be deserted again, and she saw neither the man nor the children again. Police could not establish why she had failed to provide this information earlier."

http://www.seniorchatters.co.uk/beaumont-children-disappearance/

 

[Opine]

Thats the thing. There are a lot of conflicting reports, where some talk about seeing the children with an older man in his thirties and then some say they were with a younger man.

Munro fits the younger man version while McIntyre fits the older man account. Also makes plenty of sense that there was more than just one person involved. Would be very difficult, almost impossible for one person to control 3 kids in a disappearance you would think.

While seemingly plausible, its difficult to reasonably reconcile the assertion that the Munro and McIntyre went to the beach together "with other men," and yet 4 separate witnesses saw the BC with a single suspect; each of which independently described the suspect similarly. Additionally, if I'm not mistaken. Munro's convictions/alleged abuses have concerned young boys?

 

[BlueE]

While seemingly plausible, its difficult to reasonably reconcile the assertion that the Munro and McIntyre went to the beach together "with other men," and yet 4 separate witnesses saw the BC with a single suspect; each of which independently described the suspect similarly. Additionally, if I'm not mistaken. Munro's convictions/alleged abuses have concerned young boys?

Correct with Munro's convictions and alleged abuses, but both were most likely procurers of the victims.

Reliable witnesses descriptions were conflicting, one young blonde male with European bathers and the other middle aged brown haired, blue speedos with white stripe.

McIntyre and Munro were both keen spear fisherman according to McIntyre's children they regularly went together with others diving and spearfishing.

Some of Ruth McIntyres (10 at the time) recollections. ...My father was a scuba diver, and always in the sea and at the beach, including lunch breaks while working at the Telephone Exchange/Jetty Road. His hair wasn’t so much long (surfie type), but a mop of hair, thick, brown, with a heavy fringe. His hair lightened in summer months due to the bleaching effects of sun and salt water.

As his fringe had a natural tendency to fall forward, it makes sense for a heavy fringe to be swept back when wet. I have photos, same time frame, that will support this. Also photo of him at the beach, bare chest, same trousers, belt…and dressed the same as when he left our house mid-morning for the beach that day.

On the day the Beaumont children disappeared we were outside, the phone rang, he went inside to answer it, came out (trousers, belt, towel). A black car comes up the drive to collect him. I ask him where he’s going. He says he’s going to the beach, and for us to wait there till he gets back. I ask if we can come. He says no, he might take us to the beach later. So my father is correct (re-article 20/5/15), he didn’t have his car that morning.

Tony Munro had come earlier in his yellow station wagon. He and 3 lads (one a neighbor) were heading to Glenelg to dive for coins off the Jetty. The night before, my brother had arranged to go with them, but our father suddenly changed his mind and stopped him going. Munro leaves without my brother.

There is a lot more and she mentioned the children were returned in the boot of a black car to the McIntyre's house around 4.00 pm, with three other men and a man and blonde woman were driving past slowing observing what was happening.

Tony Munro in European style bathers.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4581242/Beaumont-children-s-mystery-blond-man-found.html

 

[Visions]

While seemingly plausible, its difficult to reasonably reconcile the assertion that the Munro and McIntyre went to the beach together "with other men," and yet 4 separate witnesses saw the BC with a single suspect; each of which independently described the suspect similarly. Additionally, if I'm not mistaken. Munro's convictions/alleged abuses have concerned young boys?

If I recall, all those sightings with the one man were before midday when the children were at the beach/Colley reserve. Later when the children go to the bakery and the aftermath, there are no other sightings of them with that same individual. The only witness from that timeframe (Vietnam Vet) gave his version of as seeing the children with a young man he was convinced was Munro.

I have no doubt that the children were groomed over a period of time and it wasn't just a chance attack. So it is plausible that both men were known to them and on the day to avoid suspicion or scare the children, they split up while at the beach and the older suspect (whose existence is undeniable) coerced them to the bakery where Munro ("hey look who's here, it's your friend") happened to step in and convinced them to get in a car.

What also gets me is how Arnna mentioned something about Jane having a "boyfriend down the beach." I can't understand her making a reference to that about a guy in his 30's, but about a teenager (Munro), yes.

 

[Willow weeps]

If I recall, all those sightings with the one man were before midday when the children were at the beach/Colley reserve. Later when the children go to the bakery and the aftermath, there are no other sightings of them with that same individual. The only witness from that timeframe (Vietnam Vet) gave his version of as seeing the children with a young man he was convinced was Munro.

I have no doubt that the children were groomed over a period of time and it wasn't just a chance attack. So it is plausible that both men were known to them and on the day to avoid suspicion or scare the children, they split up while at the beach and the older suspect (whose existence is undeniable) coerced them to the bakery where Munro ("hey look who's here, it's your friend") happened to step in and convinced them to get in a car.

What also gets me is how Arnna mentioned something about Jane having a "boyfriend down the beach." I can't understand her making a reference to that about a guy in his 30's, but about a teenager (Munro), yes.

One of the boys from Tony Munro's scalvange diving group was known to Jane & was referred to as her bf. He was real. It's horrible & sad that not one of those boys ever came forward with what they remembered.
Yes, Tony was convicted of raping boys in Adelaide. Two of them were from that dive group. Andrew McIntyre was one. I twas his diary & testimony & the second victim's that saw him convicted. Once his time is done, he'll be extradited to QLD to face more historic child rape charges from his Scouts groups that he committed with John Pike who is sitting in a QLD prison atm. The Vietnam vet wasn't the only witness. There was an elderly couple sitting by him when Jane started to talk to him. They would have long since passed away though

 

[Opine]

If I recall, all those sightings with the one man were before midday when the children were at the beach/Colley reserve. Later when the children go to the bakery and the aftermath, there are no other sightings of them with that same individual. The only witness from that timeframe (Vietnam Vet) gave his version of as seeing the children with a young man he was convinced was Munro.

I have no doubt that the children were groomed over a period of time and it wasn't just a chance attack. So it is plausible that both men were known to them and on the day to avoid suspicion or scare the children, they split up while at the beach and the older suspect (whose existence is undeniable) coerced them to the bakery where Munro ("hey look who's here, it's your friend") happened to step in and convinced them to get in a car.

What also gets me is how Arnna mentioned something about Jane having a "boyfriend down the beach." I can't understand her making a reference to that about a guy in his 30's, but about a teenager (Munro), yes.

The elderly witness, a 74 y/o Glenelg woman, who came forward several days after the disappearance said she saw the BC at around 11am. She said that she noticed the man, who lay just 10ft from her. She described him as "middle aged surfy" in his 30s, tall, thin, blond hair, sun-baked swimmer, wearing brief navy blue bathers. According to police, it is beyond doubt that the children she saw were the BC; she was able to describe what Jane was wearing, and an “airways' bag similar to that which the BC had taken to the beach. She noted that when she got up to leave, around half an hour or so later, the man was playing with the children; So that would be around 11.30am. Her account was independently verified by what police have described as "the 2 best witnesses.”

The " 2 best witnesses,” were an elderly couple who came forward a week or after the disappearance. Their information confirmed the descriptions of the suspect, as provided by 4 other people who said they saw the man with the children on the laws that same day; including the elderly Glenelg woman. This is the couple with whom the man spoke just after midday.

The descriptions of the man in his early 30’s and of "slim" or "skinny" build can’t be reasonably down played given a cluster of independent witnesses noting similar characteristics. This was further strengthened by a number of Glenelg residents who contacted police in the 48 hours after the disappearance; saying that they had seen a man of similar description “lurking around” the side show allies and sailing club in the days leading up to Jan 29th ‘watching children on the beach.”

Munro and McIntyre don't fit the physical descriptions of the independent witnesses; Munro was too young, McIntyre was not "slim" or "skinny" Additionally, both were alleged to have gone to the beach that day "together;" the key evidence arguably points to s single suspect.

 

[Odog]

The elderly witness, a 74 y/o Glenelg woman, who came forward several days after the disappearance said she saw the BC at around 11am. She said that she noticed the man, who lay just 10ft from her. She described him as "middle aged surfy" in his 30s, tall, thin, blond hair, sun-baked swimmer, wearing brief navy blue bathers. According to police, it is beyond doubt that the children she saw were the BC; she was able to describe what Jane was wearing, and an “airways' bag similar to that which the BC had taken to the beach. She noted that when she got up to leave, around half an hour or so later, the man was playing with the children; So that would be around 11.30am. Her account was independently verified by what police have described as "the 2 best witnesses.”

The " 2 best witnesses,” were an elderly couple who came forward a week or after the disappearance. Their information confirmed the descriptions of the suspect, as provided by 4 other people who said they saw the man with the children on the laws that same day; including the elderly Glenelg woman. This is the couple with whom the man spoke just after midday.

The descriptions of the man in his early 30’s and of "slim" or "skinny" build can’t be reasonably down played given a cluster of independent witnesses noting similar characteristics. This was further strengthened by a number of Glenelg residents who contacted police in the 48 hours after the disappearance; saying that they had seen a man of similar description “lurking around” the side show allies and sailing club in the days leading up to Jan 29th ‘watching children on the beach.”

Munro and McIntyre don't fit the physical descriptions of the independent witnesses; Munro was too young, McIntyre was not "slim" or "skinny" Additionally, both were alleged to have gone to the beach that day "together;" the key evidence arguably points to s single suspect.

So do you think the blonde man was Phipps? We’re all 3 known to one another?


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[Opine]

So do you think the blonde man was Phipps? We’re all 3 known to one another?


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Michael Madigan's book provides an excellent summary on the facts of this case. It also provides some interesting statistics pertaining to typical perpetrator profiles. He notes that in 36.1% of child abduction murder cases, the victim/s are last seen within 400m from the killers home. He also notes that in 76.2% of child abduction murder cases the victim/s initial contact site was also within 400m from the killers home. Make of that what you personally will.

Yet despite the statistics, the close proximity of Phipps's home to the last seen and possible initial contact location, and despite his late son's allegations I don't personally think that Phipps was the man seen at the beach with the children. Contrary to suggestions of a likeness between Phipps and the latter developed image of the suspect, I don't see a strong resemblance.

I cant help but think the image of the suspect is as about as close that a sketch could get to portraying the face of Arthur Stanley Brown. But there's no evidence placing him in SA in 1966.

 

[GreyCrow]

Arthur Stanley Brown Stanley Arthur Hart



Beaumont Identikit 1 Identikit 2 Ratcliffe-Gordon Identkit

 

[Willow weeps]

I don't believe Phipps had anything to do with the BC but I do honestly believe Hart had everything to do with the AO girls

 

[Opine]

I think I saw the doco. Might have to rewatch it

Do you have any information on the vehicle he drove at the time (1966) ?

Coober Pedy does have a reputation as a place that bodies can disappear forever

During a recorded testimony before the International Tribunal for Natural Justice, Andrew McIntyre testified that the on day of the BC abductions' Munro was driving one of his father's cars; i.e one of Max McIntyre's cars. He referred to the car as being a big American Ford. Go to the link below, and go to position 23:18; where he states that Munro arrived at the McIntyre home with the BC in the boot of one of his father's cars. Then go back to position 19:12 where he identifies his father's cars as being 2 American Fords.

 

[Opine]

Apologies GreyCrow disregard my post above, I thought you were referring to Munro, but have just read the context of your prior post and have realized you weren't referring to him.

 

[Killer Power]

One of the boys from Tony Munro's scalvange diving group was known to Jane & was referred to as her bf. He was real. It's horrible & sad that not one of those boys ever came forward with what they remembered.

Source for this info as I haven’t seen it anywhere before?

 

[Willow weeps]

Source for this info as I haven’t seen it anywhere before?

I have no source as it was on a fb page that no longer exists & it was typed out on Andrew McIntyre's behalf of addressing the "boyfriend" Arnna spoke of