The cold hard facts!!!

[CoggaRules]

Until we or better still TW gets the FL structure right with our continuing problems, re. CHF and FF, we can in no way maintain a consistent level of footy. Players up the ground will always be made to look bad, purely due to the lack of options when they are disposing of the pill into the F50. Lids doesnt hurt the opposition because to hurt them he has to have players in front of him that can actually capitalise on his disposal. We havent!!!
As it is now, we are always going to have inconsistent performances by the likes of Lids etc, since they havent any tall options, or better still, competitive tall options in our FL.
We have the cattle everywhere else bar these 2 positions. Find the right fit TW and then like i said in another thread, bring in Cotch, Coggs, Cousins, Connors to add to the likes of Lids, Foley, Polo, Brown, Tuck, Morton, JR, Richo, and we would be mixing it with all comers. Have the pinch hitters in Hislop and maybe Thomson to rotate and i would bet my bottom dollar that we will be a formidable combination.
Forget the Blings, McMahons, CLeves etc of this world, to many ifs, to many buts, to many inconsistencies. Me thinks its time to bite the bullet and see if Jaydn and or Vickery can pull something out of their arse. You will never know until you know dude.
Until we have tall forward options that if not take a mark, bring it down to the front of the pack, where we can then have our small forwards waiting, and yes, this one works believe it or not, FRONT AND SQUARE, then we will be just another run of the mill side, producing some results, but not consistent results.
We need to score to win footy games dudes.

 

[TigerCleavage]

Those facts are cold, those facts are hard.
I'd still like to see Cleve get some game time though. Could add some depth to that forward line.

 

[CoggaRules]

Those facts are cold, those facts are hard.
I'd still like to see Cleve get some game time though. Could add some depth to that forward line.

I understand from your nic why, and i am not going to knock him. But the cold hard facts are that we know the cold hard facts about Cleve ATM. We need to see if we can get any new facts from others that we havent any facts on as yet. Post & Vickery have to be given the nod. Even though they are rookies, i dont really give a ****. IF they can take a mark then they should be given the chance and anything could happen. THe worst case scenario is that they arent ready, big ****ing deal then we are where we are. THe best case scenario is that we unearth a KPP and we arent where we are ATM.

 

[coke_zero]

i dont understand there are 2 spots up for grabs (CHF and FF) and no one wants to put in the hard yards to make it there own, we dont want to have to put richo down there because he will kill it where he is now and just floating into the forwardline. vickery, post, schulz, hughes even patto or gourdis. 1 or 2 of them need to really stand up and take one of those positions.

 

[TigerCleavage]

I understand from your nic why, and i am not going to knock him. But the cold hard facts are that we know the cold hard facts about Cleve ATM. We need to see if we can get any new facts from others that we havent any facts on as yet. Post & Vickery have to be given the nod. Even though they are rookies, i dont really give a ****. IF they can take a mark then they should be given the chance and anything could happen. THe worst case scenario is that they arent ready, big ****ing deal then we are where we are. THe best case scenario is that we unearth a KPP and we arent where we are ATM.

Yeah I'd have to agree with that.
Just been so long since we've seen big cleavage on the field.

 

[_RT_]

While I agree that we need to fix the structure in the forward line, I still think we would have a much better setup Cogga if we had both Hughes and Patto in those positions. Granted their not Buddy and Roughy calibre but they give us structure. If we can get a forward line that looked something like this we would trouble most sides:

HF: Riewoldt Patto Morton
F: Brown Hughes Nahas(think he is worth persisting with)

It would then allow the midfielders to spend the majority of their time up in the midfield but can also drift forward and add options. The reason I want these 2 to be given first crack is they are 4-5 year players and should be stepping up to the plate. If they fail then we can turn to first year players and look to the future. But for now I think we have to show faith in those we have invested so much time and effort into. We can't simply push them a side without really giving them a shot at making it.

 

[coke_zero]

It would then allow the midfielders to spend the majority of their time up in the midfield but can also drift forward and add options. The reason I want these 2 to be given first crack is they are 4-5 year players and should be stepping up to the plate. If they fail then we can turn to first year players and look to the future. But for now I think we have to show faith in those we have invested so much time and effort into. We can't simply push them a side without really giving them a shot at making it.

agree but schulz should atleast get a week or two more, then if he fails try patto and hughes, i really think patto could be our CHF and have been pushing for him to play there.

Nahas(think he is worth persisting with)

f*ck yeah, he is going to show that once the opposition have the ball in the back 50 that your job is not over.

 

[Goldust]

Sadly, for now, it's a case of shut down Jack, you shut down the Tigers!!!
Until we get another tall forward worth his salt, most team's planning will revolve around shutting him down.
I'd be putting the utimatum to Schulz, the job is yours to lose!!!
And think we all need to get used to the fact, Hughes is not the answer!!

 

[CoggaRules]

While I agree that we need to fix the structure in the forward line, I still think we would have a much better setup Cogga if we had both Hughes and Patto in those positions. Granted their not Buddy and Roughy calibre but they give us structure. If we can get a forward line that looked something like this we would trouble most sides:

HF: Riewoldt Patto Morton
F: Brown Hughes Nahas(think he is worth persisting with)

It would then allow the midfielders to spend the majority of their time up in the midfield but can also drift forward and add options. The reason I want these 2 to be given first crack is they are 4-5 year players and should be stepping up to the plate. If they fail then we can turn to first year players and look to the future. But for now I think we have to show faith in those we have invested so much time and effort into. We can't simply push them a side without really giving them a shot at making it.

apart from Patto, who hasnt been given a real good work out as an out and out CHF, "if they fail" has already been proven. IMO if you bring in a newbie he will show you from the first game that he has what it takes.
Lets put it this way RT, i would even go as far as to say, Vickery showed more in movement and flare in his first taste, than Cleve has his 5 years.
We dont need someone to hold down CHF or FF, we need someone that has the opposition scratching their heads in working out how to counter them.

 

[Wil03]

Well said Cogga!! Way to often has the backline been hung out to dry and blamed for a long for turning it over or going sideways when the only reason they have is because there was no-one to kick to! Hislop was great around the packs but needs to get on some short sharp leads outside 50 to hold his spot. If we have him, richo, reiwoldt and mids pushing down we'll be able to move it quicker out of the backline and our skill errors will drop

 

[krustyman]

those facts are so cold, i think im going to cry!

 

[Foley u Legend]

I think that Jayden Post will become CHF and smokey Dean Putt at FF in the future. This will allow Riewoldt to play 3rd tall and Morton 4th

 

[bigstyletiger]

Sorry Cogga but you probably need to get down and watch Coburgh play. Vickery really is not ready. Compare his stats to Kruezer. Similar speed, similar hight and probably similar weight when they both entered but Vickery gets tired. He doesn't have the stamina to make lead after lead, chase backman and put in second efforts.

Watched him down at Coburgh the last two weeks and he was poor. No hiding from it. Even worse than he was against the pies when he just couldn't make the ground to rap his hands around plenty of balls he got his fingers to and dropped. His ruckwork shows him for what he is atm - a kid in a mans game. He simply needs another couple of preseasons.

If you discount Polak and Hughes the most likely options at full forward from the twos are Putty and Gourdis.

As a ruckman Putty is rubbish. No balls whatsoever. Two weeks ago against the bulldogs Rawlings preffered Nat Carusso in the ruck instead of Putt after Vickery was injured. Think that says it all. However as a forward Putty is a quick lead, and a decent mark. When the ball hits the ground he is as good below his knees as many midfielders and as agile and quick. He is 202cm and therefore with good delivery he will be very hard to stop and should at least create a spillage. Kicking for goal is not the greatest but field kicking is good. He should be persisted with as a forward and only a forward at this stage and I would not mind seeing him get a game as a specialist full forward.

Gourdis - in the match against the bulldogs he was hardly sighted and was stretchered off in the third with a neck/head injury. However in the game agains the Northern Bullants last week he showed speed and good hands on the lead. He is super quick however probably doesn't use it often enough to get himself into the game. Kicking is hit and miss. at times bangs it through as straight as an arrow but can produce some shockers. Probably holding Gourdis back is the fact that we are not the best kicking side in the comp and his apparent unwillingness to chase, tackle and harrass. Could be very dangerous on the lead in a side with good footskills.

Post - plays his best footy as a backman at this stage. Good spoiler. Reads the play well. Makes it hard for his opponent to get a kick. Is cool under pressure and doesn't mind being involved in some link play out of defence. Doesn't seem as comfortable up forward. Still a very good size for a 19yo and will get better. Shouldn't get a game infront of Cleve though at this stage. If anything he will probably leapfrog one of Thursty/McGuane as a member of the key backs as he is more creative and has a bigger body.

Polak is perhaps the dark horse. He seems to be a pretty smart forward just for some reason doesn't finish as well as he'd like. He's had great hands (and he is improving) he gets in the right position and he's big enough to cause a stoppage. He also wants it more now i think. Not that i'd know. But i think with the accident he has matured. He's a good field kick and perhaps he could make it happen in front of goals.

Personally if i was TW i'd give Shulz and Hughes a good run this season. Give them lots of support, clear instructions and performance benchmarks and work on the midfielders decision making when kicking it into the forward 50. They may not be the answer but Hughes at least should be given a real crack. Worst comes to worst we get their trade values up and we look to trade. With the gold coast coming in and with the number of talls (key backs and forwards) we should be looking to trade one for something.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Good write-up bigstyle. Now that we've put him there (and Rance has seized a spot in the backline) I think we've got to give Schulz a run at making FF his own. He at least is a physical presence, can take a contested mark and is competitive at ground level. Can't say the same for Hughes. The last time Schulz played more than a couple of consecutive games at FF was in 06 and although he didn't kick bags, I think he kicked at least one goal for 10 or more games in a row. If he can provide a contest and average 2 goals a game it'll be more than we've had from anyone other than Richo since Hogg days.

Putt has the potential in future, Gourdis too possibly, although more as a CHF I think.

 

[one eyedtiger]

We do have a few players who can stand up but so far no one. I think Schulz will be given a few more weeks to prove himself. Hughes will get another shot and with Gus playing as the 2nd ruck, Patto will also get a run up forward. All these guys will be given an opportunity before the likes of Putt, Gourdis, Post and Vickery. All are options for the future but right now we the more experinced guys will play first.

 

[folester41]

Sorry Cogga but you probably need to get down and watch Coburgh play. Vickery really is not ready. Compare his stats to Kruezer. Similar speed, similar hight and probably similar weight when they both entered but Vickery gets tired. He doesn't have the stamina to make lead after lead, chase backman and put in second efforts.

yeah from what ive seen him i agree, he is a long way off, and although he needs 3 or so preaseason to develop before we can judge him and declare if he will make it or not, i really wish we hadn't of drafted him as i dont think he will ever live up to what we expect of him being a number 8 pick.

i hope he proves me wrong, and im going to give him every chance to, but i just dont think he will ever truly make it.

drafting ziebell, with muscle, skills and brains would have been the smart ideal option, but i understand the tall ruckman/foward was what we needed most and i really hope we made the right decision.

 

[Bojangles17]

Until we or better still TW gets the FL structure right with our continuing problems, re. CHF and FF, we can in no way maintain a consistent level of footy. Players up the ground will always be made to look bad, purely due to the lack of options when they are disposing of the pill into the F50.

im on same page cogg, the root of our problem has crept up and bit us on the arse and will hold us back if we dont settle on a winning formula soon enough...Hughes will do a steve bradbury and come in coz sarge has offerered squat...we really need someone to straighten us up and provide some genuine options

 

[TigerAntho]

Sadly, for now, it's a case of shut down Jack, you shut down the Tigers!!!
Until we get another tall forward worth his salt, most team's planning will revolve around shutting him down.
I'd be putting the utimatum to Schulz, the job is yours to lose!!!
And think we all need to get used to the fact, Hughes is not the answer!!

Why not? He hasn't even notched up 30 games, and even when he's played, he hasn't been given the chance to play consistently in the side.

Schulz??? He's been playing for us in the side consistently for a while with mixed usually shite results. He'll get the flick for sure if he dosen't deliver this year. He's mid aged for a footballer and should be dominating games now...and well.. he dosen't...and all he doers it take to odd spectaculare grab or flukey goal. At least with Hughes he has time on his side.

 

[_RT_]

apart from Patto, who hasnt been given a real good work out as an out and out CHF, "if they fail" has already been proven. IMO if you bring in a newbie he will show you from the first game that he has what it takes.
Lets put it this way RT, i would even go as far as to say, Vickery showed more in movement and flare in his first taste, than Cleve has his 5 years.
We dont need someone to hold down CHF or FF, we need someone that has the opposition scratching their heads in working out how to counter them.

On the contrary Cogga, with the talent we have in terms of mid sized forwards I think all we really need is someone who can hold down CHF/FF. If we can find a combo that can net 80 goals between them I would back our mid sized options to score enough goals to see us win more games than we lose. Look back at the Eagles during their 2 years of dominance, their key forwards were Lynch and Hansen in 05 for 31 & 24 goals respectively. In 06 they had Lynch (65) and Hunter (29), if we can find a couple of targets that can give us that type of return for the season we'll be right amongst it IMO.

 

[richoatthedisco]

yeah from what ive seen him i agree, he is a long way off, and although he needs 3 or so preaseason to develop before we can judge him and declare if he will make it or not, i really wish we hadn't of drafted him as i dont think he will ever live up to what we expect of him being a number 8 pick.

i hope he proves me wrong, and im going to give him every chance to, but i just dont think he will ever truly make it.

drafting ziebell, with muscle, skills and brains would have been the smart ideal option, but i understand the tall ruckman/foward was what we needed most and i really hope we made the right decision.

Yeah, same. Never draft a ruckman so high I reckon. Ziebell was a sure thing, but apparently the Tiges didn't even rate him.

 

[Bojangles17]

Yeah, same. Never draft a ruckman so high I reckon. Ziebell was a sure thing, but apparently the Tiges didn't even rate him.

sheesh, wonder where I heard that before...Draft policy 101 for mine, I was screaming from the rooftops pre draft..geez I hope he comes on

 

[osakabull]

Cant understand people saying give Schulz another chance.Hughes has been totally wasted.Why did they draft him?He must be put in, given an extended period of time and the team must be told to look for him as their main forward option.
Schulz has had numerous opportunities.He wouldnt have got them at another club.

 

[Tigertom]

Problem solved

TW to Richo - "Richo DONT go past the center line"

When Polak comes back allow him and Rance to alternate between forward and back. Thursfield and Raines to come back and bolster the defence and allow Rance to use his motor.

Richo,Riewoldt, Shultz, Morton, Brown, Nahas etc......... pretty good looking structure to me

Cotchin, Delidio, Foley, Tuck, Newman etc......... banging it in thier

No need to over analyse it, keep it simple (they are only footballers) and see what happens.

The truth is we dont have a Fevola or Franklin running around in the reserves bing in.

Hughes has demonstrated he is not too good when ball goes to ground, he needs to learn more than one trick before he gets another chance.

 

[AlexRance]

Geez it sounds like Vickery was wasted draft pick at 8.

 

[Tigertom]

Geez it sounds like Vickery was wasted draft pick at 8.

He needs to earn his spot like anyone else.......He will come out a better player because of it