The Cricket Thread

[Messenger]

Perhaps the selectors just need to roll the dice on one of them and slot them into 6. Lynn has been hitting them well in the clown outfit.

Absolutely. They have to get a look at some more batsmen soon.

I was afraid if Siddle made a 50 they'd drop another batsman.

 

[grizzlym]

Absolutely. They have to get a look at some more batsmen soon.

I was afraid if Siddle made a 50 they'd drop another batsman.

Johnson, Siddle and Starc all being all-rounders...

 

[Langford4FBOTC]

Johnson, Siddle and Starc all being all-rounders...

That's why the whole search for an all rounder is such a distraction. We don't have a long tail. Most of our bowlers can make runs. Add Pattinson to that list, who is a genuine no 8. We can simply afford to play 6 bats, 4 bowlers and a keeper/bat and be a force.

 

[grizzlym]

That's why the whole search for an all rounder is such a distraction. We don't have a long tail. Most of our bowlers can make runs. Add Pattinson to that list, who is a genuine no 8. We can simply afford to play 6 bats, 4 bowlers and a keeper/bat and be a force.

Completely agree.

The bowling doesn;t worry me one bit. I'm happy for Lyon to learn his trade, and I think he has the raw attributes and age on his side to develop. We obviously have a real roster of quality fast options too.

The batting is where we are vulnerable and we desperately need to blood some blokes and let them settle down in positions. If they don't perform we then turn them over. With Wade at 7 and someone like Starc/Johnson/Pattinson at 8 (depending on how they're rostered) there's plenty of strength there.

How are you seeing Warner's development, Langers? I've been quite impressed with his game.

 

[Langford4FBOTC]

Completely agree.

The bowling doesn;t worry me one bit. I'm happy for Lyon to learn his trade, and I think he has the raw attributes and age on his side to develop. We obviously have a real roster of quality fast options too.

The batting is where we are vulnerable and we desperately need to blood some blokes and let them settle down in positions. If they don't perform we then turn them over. With Wade at 7 and someone like Starc/Johnson/Pattinson at 8 (depending on how they're rostered) there's plenty of strength there.

How are you seeing Warner's development, Langers? I've been quite impressed with his game.

I've missed his last couple of innings so really only judging on what I've read and on his stats, but he seems to be coming along. Disappointing he's missed some opportunities to convert good starts to big hundreds. That's an aspect he will need to improve. If he's going to play the way he does, he needs to follow in Sewag's footsteps and absolutely demolish attacks with huge scores. It's all about time at the crease which is a mental thing.

 

[grizzlym]

I've missed his last couple of innings so really only judging on what I've read and on his stats, but he seems to be coming along. Disappointing he's missed some opportunities to convert good starts to big hundreds. That's an aspect he will need to improve. If he's going to play the way he does, he needs to follow in Sewag's footsteps and absolutely demolish attacks with huge scores. It's all about time at the crease which is a mental thing.

His technique looks much more solid to me. And yes, time at the crease is important, but that will come. He's really not played much longer cricket over his career.

 

[Brishawk]

6 bats, a keeper, 4 bowlers is the structure that has won more test matches than any other. You should not pick a test match team to cover off losing a bowler. If they really want a batsman to bowl medium pacers, pick Paine as keeper and play wade at 6

I believe wade could make it as a number 6 if he gives up the gloves but rather him to stay at 7 and keep the gloves.

I always liked ferguson and be happy to give him a go at 6 and play Kawahja at 4.

 

[Henry Jr]

6 bats, a keeper, 4 bowlers is the structure that has won more test matches than any other. You should not pick a test match team to cover off losing a bowler. If they really want a batsman to bowl medium pacers, pick Paine as keeper and play wade at 6

I believe wade could make it as a number 6 if he gives up the gloves but rather him to stay at 7 and keep the gloves.

I always liked ferguson and be happy to give him a go at 6 and play Kawahja at 4.

Might have to BH if he keeps grassing chances like that.

 

[grizzlym]

Well, the knock on Wade has always been his keeping. If he keeps dropping chances to the spinners, especially like the last one, he might find himself as a batsman!

Seriously though, it's great to have a keeper that can bat, and as competently as Wade, but he'd want to improve his keeping.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I'd like to see Australia develop a quick bowler with some idea of how to bowl with a new ball.

Whatever Starc had going for him before his enforced holiday, it's gone.

 

[Brishawk]

4. Synthetic pitches at junior level. Abound here in Melbourne. Produce great bounce that is very true but little side spin. Terry Jenner always talked about spinners having to learn to defend themselves; these pitches just don't permit that. The two best spinners I saw on those surfaces was former shield player Craig Howard and a young offie I played with who bowled very slow with an enormous amount of flight and drift.

5. Captaincy. Warne set the bar incredibly high for spinners and it seems captains at all levels suffer amnesia as to what spinners were like before him. We've burned a number of decent spinners (Krejza prime amongst them, Dan Cullen perhaps) because they leaked runs like our idealised SK Warne never would. We've played some ordinary guys too (Doherty, Beer, McGain). The great shame is that Beau Casson broke down when he did. He could bowl.

As a leggie I suffered from both of these issues. I had to argue with my captain to allow me to bowl into the wind instead of with it! And bowling on synthetic pitches is mission impossible. Turn is mild and bounce is true and consistent so batsman can come down the pitch and trust the ball won't do anything unexpected. On turf the threat of extra turn/bounce or a skidding ball keeps them in the crease more often.

The same thing happens in the nets. My local club has synthetic nets and you bowl with the wind. It teaches you to bowl fast and short to avoid getting hit. Takes a lot of courage to keep flighting it up when they are likely to belt you if you get it marginally wrong.

In saying all of that, we still get spinners make it to state level but they don't develop there. Cullen, bailey, casson, smith, white all entered state cricket as promising spinners. Cullen and bailey both had a stand out season each. What happened? Will John holland go the same way? Beer? O'keefe? They should make a rule at shield level that a spinner is compulsory and provide specific coaching to captains and coaches at state level to enable them to utilise and develop spinners. I'd also form a spin academy to provide specialist training. It may sound silly, but I'd ensure spinners spent some time practicing without a batsman so they focus solely on line and length. We should send spinners to county cricket where possible and induce the, away from t20 early in their career to avoid developing short and flat bowling.

 

[Brishawk]

Well, the knock on Wade has always been his keeping. If he keeps dropping chances to the spinners, especially like the last one, he might find himself as a batsman!

Seriously though, it's great to have a keeper that can bat, and as competently as Wade, but he'd want to improve his keeping.

True but he is still better than haddin and with time and elite training he should be able to develop.

 

[grizzlym]

True but he is still better than haddin and with time and elite training he should be able to develop.

Yes, but his relatively poor keeping to spin 'aint great for Lyon and the teams' chances.

I hope he develops. Truly do.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

In saying all of that, we still get spinners make it to state level but they don't develop there. Cullen and bailey both had a stand out season each. What happened?.

I can tell you a little about Bailey. He played for my club Sturt, along with Shaun Tait and Cam Borgas, and I had hopes for Test careers for all three. Bailey had a season for SA where he was the perenial 12th man most of the season. When he was 12th man in Adelaide, he was allowed to play for Sturt in the SACA grade competition, but each time he did, Sturt were batting.

When he did get a bowl for Sturt, the quicks ran through the opposition each time, and Bailey was lucky to get a handful of overs. He rarely bowled that season. After that, he went off the boil. I recall going out to practice one night and watching him in the nets. Gone was that lovely fluent action, he was stopping on the crease instead of pushing through it, there was no loop and little spin.

The following season, he accepted the captaincy role at another club, and like a lot of bowler captains, he underbowled himself. Bailey is a smart lad, studying law, and doesn't really need a cricket career.

I have serious doubts about Cricket Australia and their propensity to categorise players at an early age. I spoke with Shaun Tait about where his career was headed after a bout of injuries. He said he was looking forward to playing a season of Sheffield Shield cricket with an aim to getting back into the Test team. Three weeks later, he announced to the world that he was only going to play the shorter form of the game. That was not his decision, it was made for him.

Cam Borgas is one of the most organised players at No.3 I've seen. Highly successful at grade level, he first played Sheffield Shield at 17. For several seasons, he was the guy who filled in when another batsman was missing, made a score, and then got dropped again. One season he made 2 centuries batting at 4 for SA, but he made the fatal error of winning a one day game for the Redbacks making 31 from 9 balls. From that moment the "powers that be" decided he was a one day player. Bloody one day game!!!!!!

Instead of pushing for Australian selection as a top order batsman, he's playing in these silly bash games batting between 6 and 8.

 

[Brishawk]

Cheers AH. Never cease been surprised at how dictatorial and unprofessional high level sports administration is . . .

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Yes, I admit to being biased with these three but at tender ages they all appeared to have "green baggy" stamped all over them, and I believe their talents have been wasted. Australia has been screaming out for a top 4 batsman who can not only occupy the crease, but dominate the bowling as the day wears on. Borgas was perfect for the role. He also has astute leadership skills which would have been handy in the next 3-4 years when looking for a replacement for Clarke.

Ah well ........ such is life. I guess I'm really annoyed because the only way I can see Tait or Borgas play these days is to watch T20 cricket, and I hate that style of game with a passion.

Just on Shaun Tait, everyone gets excited about Starc's inswinging yorker, but Tait had one just as good, only 15-20 kph faster. He was frightening. One night at practice I walked around behind the nets to get an idea how he looked from a batsman's point of view. I was standing 3-4 metres further back behind the batsman, and there were two protective nets between us, and Taity was still making me flinch. Once again, what a waste.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

This Test has been interesting, and if the Sri Lankans can somehow amass a lead of anything over 150, and the Aussies lose a couple of quick ones, it will be one helluva 4th day. Herath could be the key.

I'm not sure where I stand with Wade as a keeper. Having never done the job myself, I find it hard to criticise. However, I've been listening to comments from Healy about basic things he's doing wrong, and I just wonder if someone so genuinely lacking in glovework skills should be Australia's Test keeper. I recall one comment saying he ball watches and makes the simple look very difficult at times. Healy continued with "I hate to think how he will fare when the going is really tough out there".

I hope Cricket Australia has the sense to get Healy to work with Wade to improve his technique. Although he made a rather impressive 100 today, he's not in Gilchrist's league when it comes to batting, and I don't think his batting will be enough to keep him in the team unless his glovework improves.

Fingers crossed, I recall Rod Marsh wasn't all that great a keeper when he start playing Tests either.

It also worries me that Cowan has glaring weaknesses when it comes to backing up and running between the wickets. He is either unwilling or unable to make the necessary adjustments to his game, and that to me is a real worry.

One other issue for me is the way our new ball bowlers continually waste it, waiting for it to get older so they can reverse swing. I'm a big fan of Mitch Starc but his efforts with the new rock is lamentable.

 

[grizzlym]

Thanks for your thoughts and observations there, AH. Good, well you know what I mean, to read.

Re Wade: Langers posted it earlier, he's really rated as a batsman and would no doubt mature into a fine player. He's also got fire and ambition. All of those qualities have been present for years. But so have the knocks over his keeping. It's not so much letting through byes or the like, but fluffing chances and his work standing up to the spinners. It's been the one (and only) persistent knock against the guy. A bloke who used to keep for one the states is great mates with a guy I work with. Told him that if Paine had fit Haddin would have been out of a gig quicker. Selectors weren't convinced about Wade's glovework.

The question, I guess, as both you and Brishawk have posed, is can he get his keeping up to the sort of standard needed at test level. Time will tell.

Oh yes, you seen much of Ferguson?

 

[Henry Jr]

Does Warner really need resting?

As Shane Watson remains unavailable due to a calf injury, and David Warner and Matthew Wade are also expected to be given time off after a demanding Test match schedule, ESPNcricinfo understands George Bailey will have the chance to enhance his standing as a specialist captain, in the ODIs at the MCG on January 11 and Adelaide Oval on January 13.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-sri-lanka-2012/content/current/story/599763.html

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Oh yes, you seen much of Ferguson?

The amazing thing about Ferguson from my perspective is I've never seen him make runs. Whenever he came up against us at grade level, we knocked him over early, I think he batted 4 times for 1 run. The following week he'd make 150!!! From reputation, the guy can play, but I've seen so little of him it's hard to comment.

I'll be interested to see how our opening bowlers go about their work today. We need them to find their length and get early wickets. I've never ceased to be amazed by the exaggerated warm ups these guys do, then they hit the pitch and need 3-4 overs to find their shape!!

 

[Henry Jr]

Another fcukup by Wade this morning. The pressure is building.

I wonder if Wade has a poor series in India glove work wise will they pull the pin and place Paine in for the Ashes?

 

[Brishawk]

Does Warner really need resting?



http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-sri-lanka-2012/content/current/story/599763.html

seems odd . . . maybe the 2.5 day test (single innings) in Melbourne took it out of him? Trying to get him ready for T20 matches?

 

[Brishawk]

The question, I guess, as both you and Brishawk have posed, is can he get his keeping up to the sort of standard needed at test level. Time will tell.

Oh yes, you seen much of Ferguson?

Healy is in the paper today saying he believes Wade will develop into a good keeper, just needs some time. He says that it will take a year or two before most keepers develop the proper mental approach to ensure concentration is right.

Is Paine just another pigeon-holed player (i.e. unlike Tait, he is earmarked for cricket in all forms)? His stats have never been that impressive. Does he have a better record keeping to spin? I am not sure what the obsession is with him.

 

[djboonie]

Missed chance against top 4 = 50 runs
Missed chance against middle order = 30 runs
Missed chance against lower order = 15 runs

Is Wade in positive or negative territory this summer.

With our top order we need a guy that can bat as glove man. I've seen Wade in the past run out guys from good distances by taking one glove off, I think he's putting a massive amount of pressure on himself and is now brain farting!

 

[Brishawk]

Something to keep in mind:

During the second Test in Chennai, Adam Gilchrist and Parthiv Patel took the art of wicketkeeping to an all-time low.​

Yes, it was hot. Sure, it was humid. But if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen, it's time to get out. Forget the excuses, the standard of the two keepers in the second Test was nothing short of disgraceful.​

Once again, the argument of keeper-batsmen compared to batsmen-keepers raises its ugly head. Gilchrist and Patel can wield the willow, but the standard of their glovework was well short of Test level.​

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/23/1098474926830.html