Delediodelight
Debutant
I dont know if is just cause it school holidays or what but there is some really stupid posts on here, so i'm going to give you all the facts, well what i know. I know you all think that we should be playing finals by now, i mean it is Wallaces fourth year at the club, but i'll give you some facts that may make you think otherwise. i'll go through different topic like the list, drafting, trading and comparing the tigers to the Hawks and doggies, who where at the same end of the ladder when Wallace started.
The List:
Wallace has said it before that when he came to the tigers the list was a disaster. it was i'll show you. you may think its him giving excuses, maybe it is but i dont think so. Wallace has stated on numorous occasions that to be a premiership threat you need a core group of players(10-14 playing in each match 6-8 in reserve) aged between 24-28(i'll refer to this as the core). the players in this group should be dominating and controlling the game, young players(less then 23) and older players(29+) stand up every now and then, a 5-10min burst or a dominating quarter or two helps, but the game should be won from the core.
Who does richmond have in the core group? Coughlan, Hyde, McMahon, Moore, Newman, Pettifer, Polak, King, Tuck. Three of which are in our best 22 (Moore, Newman, Tuck) with King and Polak close to it and Coughlan injured for 2 years so there is doubt there. So at the most we have 6 players in this 'core' group, with dare i say it Coughlan pre-injuries was/is the only player in the core group who can/could dominate and control a game for us.
What does this mean? it means a hell of alot more presure is put on the shoulders of Richo and co, aswell as the already hyped yet undeveloped kids, who are expected(from certain people on here) to be winning games at the ages of 19-20. they haven't even developed and there suppose to be winning games for us(the tigers), man now thats pressure.
I think that the average time that should be allowed for a young player to develop, as long as they are developing and have/are not gone backwards, is 6 years. you may think that that is to long, but put it into prospective 3years for the body to develop physically, 2-3 years for them to play and get exprience with the team, their body and team plans, and also allow for injuries. So what age is that 23-4. examples of this, in wallaces first year in 05, a guy so many people thought should've got delisted cause he hadn't shown any signs, yet has a break out season dominating in the centre, his name Tuck, how old? 23. Another one he had injuries, but ones he put together a couple of preseasons and a good season in reserves, his come good, and this year i think should be almost in AA contention, Moore. Some people on here are saying delist Jon, delist Meyer, delist Tambling, they are 20-21 year old their bodys haven't even developed and you expect the to be dominating games, get real. give them time to mature and develop, physically aswell as mentally, judge after this time not before or during.
There is way to much pressure put onto young players. As far as im concerned there has only ever been one player who has dominated and controlled games from the get go, JUDD. yeah he had cousins, kerr and cox around him, but he made them look even better, he was the player that burst from the centre, he made the eagles look good, and it shows now. People may say Franklin as well but i disagree, yes he is an amazing player and athlete. But the delivery he gets from Hodge, Mitchall, Bateman and co it makes his job a heap easier, also a multi-prone forwardline with Roughead, Williams, and Osbourne it makes it even harder for the defence to help out Franklins opponent. Same with Joel Selwood, he was playing 5th or 6th fiddle in an awesome midfield, it made him look awesome, he is a great player dont get me wrong. as a footnote the only other player i can see being dominate from the beginning is Palmer, but time will tell with him.
The Draft:
99 Preseason Draft....Pick 6......Clay Sampson
National Draft ..........3............Aaron Fiora
.............................22..........Ezra Poyas
.............................39..........Scott Homewood
.............................52..........Andrew Mills
.............................78..........Ty Zantuck
Trade Leon Cameron, Clinton King
Rookie elevation Ben Hollands
00 National..............9...........Kayne Pettifer
.............................25..........Mark Coughlan
.............................40..........Chris Hyde
.............................41..........Andrew Krakour
.............................55..........Chris Newman
.............................57..........Steven Sziller
Rookie Ben Haynes, Royce Vardy
01 National.............33...........David Rodan
............................63...........Adam L. Houlihan
............................68...........Chris Hyde
............................77...........Martin McGrath
Trade Paul Hudson, Greg Stafford
Rookie Graig Ednie
02 National.............12...........Jay Schulz
............................41...........Tim Flemming
............................47...........Bill Nicholls
............................62...........Daniel Sipthorp
Trade Justin Blumfield, Kane Johnson
03 National............21............Alex Gilmore
...........................37............Thomas Roach
...........................53............Daniel Jackson
...........................64............Shane Morrison
...........................70............Brent Hartigan
...........................73............Shane Tuck
...........................76............Andrew Raines
...........................79............Kyle Archibald
Trade Nathan Brown
So there is 8 players out of 28 drafted still on the list and 2 out of 11 trades and rookie elevations, so draft periods from 99 to 03 is a complete wipe out. these drafts where suppose to prived that core group (99 draft = 28year old:03 draft = 23year old). I blame the Frawley rein for this shambles of a list, him and his recruiting team (Beck) and no one else. Pethetic recruiting and drafting.
04 National......Pick 1.............Brett Deledio
...........................4.............Richard Tambling
..........................12............Danny Meyer
..........................16............Adam Pattison
..........................20............Dean Polo
..........................36............Luke McGuane
..........................52............Dean Limbach
..........................65............Mark Graham
Preseason Ben Marsh, Luke Weller
Rookie Kelvin Moore
Trade Troy Simmonds
05 National..........8..............Jarrad Oakely-Nicholls
.........................24............Cleve Hughes
.........................40............Travis Casserly
Preseason Trent Knobel,
Rookie Nathen Foley, Will Thursfield
Trade Patrick Bowden
06 National.........13.............Jack Riewoldt
........................26.............Shane Edwards
........................58.............Daniel Connors
........................60.............Carl Peterson
........................73.............Andrew Collins
Preseason Matthew White,
Trade Graham Polak
07 National.........2.............Trent Cotchin
........................18...........Alex Rance
........................52...........Dean Putt
Preseason David Gourdis
Trades Mitch Morton, Jordon McMahon
Now 04 to 07 is the Wallace rein, while i think recruiting has come along way in talent identification, i think this group looks alot better. Most of these players are still young and developing they look alot better then the previous lot. While there is still the odd mistakes there far fewer, and i'm not saying everyone will make the big time. In saying that the 04 draft players are still only 22 so by my theory they should be allowed still 2 years, yet still alot of these players are shouldering considerable workloads that are not usually expected of them for at least another 4-5 years.
The Trades
Since Wallace has arrived he has done a few trades, alot of people haven't agreed with them but i have. alot of the players who we have picked up is to firstly try and fill that age gap, in that core group, McMahon, Polak. secondly to help the team straight away, simmonds. or thirdly to trade for players that are the age of the already drafted young players coming through, Morton. these trades didn't have to be made but i think they needed to be to make us more competitive immediately and in the future. i think they had to be done to provide leadership and allow younger players to develop. Also a lot of you think you can get something of value cheaply, it happens rarely, you have to give up value to get value, if you want Warnock expect us to have to give up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick, i wouldn't give up a 1st rounder though.
Comparisons
So many posters continue to compare us to either the hawks or the doggies, but the only thing we really have in common is that we where all at the bottom of the ladder in 04 when wallace, eade and clarkson all started coaching there respective teams. they forget to remember what i have been reinforcing through this post, (that core group is the key)
The Hawks have Bateman, Boyle, Brown, Campbell, Croad, Gilham, Guerra, Hodge, Mitchell, Osbourne, Sewell, Taylor, and Williams. While the doggies have Boyd, Cross, Giansiracusa, Gilbee, Hahn, Hargrave, Lake, Morris, and Murphy. compare these groups with our core group Coughlan, Hyde, McMahon, Moore, Newman, Pettifer, Polak, King, Tuck.
For the hawks having this core group has allowed for players like Franklin, Roughead and lewis to develop at their own rate with little pressure and it shows. Same with the doggies the with the likes of Cooney and Griffin. We haven't had this luxury, and that puts more pressure onto the deledios the tamblings and it shows. And inturn results in some idiodic post/threads like delist tambling and delist Jon. there 20-1, i'm so glad their not coaching richmond. This gap in the list is the reason why Wallace was giving 5years to assemble a list, again idiodic posters say his had his time sack him, wrong his assembled/still assembling the list, so really his time as coach starts now. if he was to have the same list as what eade and clarkson started with, wallace's 3 year contract as coach should be starting from 2010 after he has finished his 5 year contract as list assembler.
The List:
Wallace has said it before that when he came to the tigers the list was a disaster. it was i'll show you. you may think its him giving excuses, maybe it is but i dont think so. Wallace has stated on numorous occasions that to be a premiership threat you need a core group of players(10-14 playing in each match 6-8 in reserve) aged between 24-28(i'll refer to this as the core). the players in this group should be dominating and controlling the game, young players(less then 23) and older players(29+) stand up every now and then, a 5-10min burst or a dominating quarter or two helps, but the game should be won from the core.
Who does richmond have in the core group? Coughlan, Hyde, McMahon, Moore, Newman, Pettifer, Polak, King, Tuck. Three of which are in our best 22 (Moore, Newman, Tuck) with King and Polak close to it and Coughlan injured for 2 years so there is doubt there. So at the most we have 6 players in this 'core' group, with dare i say it Coughlan pre-injuries was/is the only player in the core group who can/could dominate and control a game for us.
What does this mean? it means a hell of alot more presure is put on the shoulders of Richo and co, aswell as the already hyped yet undeveloped kids, who are expected(from certain people on here) to be winning games at the ages of 19-20. they haven't even developed and there suppose to be winning games for us(the tigers), man now thats pressure.
I think that the average time that should be allowed for a young player to develop, as long as they are developing and have/are not gone backwards, is 6 years. you may think that that is to long, but put it into prospective 3years for the body to develop physically, 2-3 years for them to play and get exprience with the team, their body and team plans, and also allow for injuries. So what age is that 23-4. examples of this, in wallaces first year in 05, a guy so many people thought should've got delisted cause he hadn't shown any signs, yet has a break out season dominating in the centre, his name Tuck, how old? 23. Another one he had injuries, but ones he put together a couple of preseasons and a good season in reserves, his come good, and this year i think should be almost in AA contention, Moore. Some people on here are saying delist Jon, delist Meyer, delist Tambling, they are 20-21 year old their bodys haven't even developed and you expect the to be dominating games, get real. give them time to mature and develop, physically aswell as mentally, judge after this time not before or during.
There is way to much pressure put onto young players. As far as im concerned there has only ever been one player who has dominated and controlled games from the get go, JUDD. yeah he had cousins, kerr and cox around him, but he made them look even better, he was the player that burst from the centre, he made the eagles look good, and it shows now. People may say Franklin as well but i disagree, yes he is an amazing player and athlete. But the delivery he gets from Hodge, Mitchall, Bateman and co it makes his job a heap easier, also a multi-prone forwardline with Roughead, Williams, and Osbourne it makes it even harder for the defence to help out Franklins opponent. Same with Joel Selwood, he was playing 5th or 6th fiddle in an awesome midfield, it made him look awesome, he is a great player dont get me wrong. as a footnote the only other player i can see being dominate from the beginning is Palmer, but time will tell with him.
The Draft:
99 Preseason Draft....Pick 6......Clay Sampson
National Draft ..........3............Aaron Fiora
.............................22..........Ezra Poyas
.............................39..........Scott Homewood
.............................52..........Andrew Mills
.............................78..........Ty Zantuck
Trade Leon Cameron, Clinton King
Rookie elevation Ben Hollands
00 National..............9...........Kayne Pettifer
.............................25..........Mark Coughlan
.............................40..........Chris Hyde
.............................41..........Andrew Krakour
.............................55..........Chris Newman
.............................57..........Steven Sziller
Rookie Ben Haynes, Royce Vardy
01 National.............33...........David Rodan
............................63...........Adam L. Houlihan
............................68...........Chris Hyde
............................77...........Martin McGrath
Trade Paul Hudson, Greg Stafford
Rookie Graig Ednie
02 National.............12...........Jay Schulz
............................41...........Tim Flemming
............................47...........Bill Nicholls
............................62...........Daniel Sipthorp
Trade Justin Blumfield, Kane Johnson
03 National............21............Alex Gilmore
...........................37............Thomas Roach
...........................53............Daniel Jackson
...........................64............Shane Morrison
...........................70............Brent Hartigan
...........................73............Shane Tuck
...........................76............Andrew Raines
...........................79............Kyle Archibald
Trade Nathan Brown
So there is 8 players out of 28 drafted still on the list and 2 out of 11 trades and rookie elevations, so draft periods from 99 to 03 is a complete wipe out. these drafts where suppose to prived that core group (99 draft = 28year old:03 draft = 23year old). I blame the Frawley rein for this shambles of a list, him and his recruiting team (Beck) and no one else. Pethetic recruiting and drafting.
04 National......Pick 1.............Brett Deledio
...........................4.............Richard Tambling
..........................12............Danny Meyer
..........................16............Adam Pattison
..........................20............Dean Polo
..........................36............Luke McGuane
..........................52............Dean Limbach
..........................65............Mark Graham
Preseason Ben Marsh, Luke Weller
Rookie Kelvin Moore
Trade Troy Simmonds
05 National..........8..............Jarrad Oakely-Nicholls
.........................24............Cleve Hughes
.........................40............Travis Casserly
Preseason Trent Knobel,
Rookie Nathen Foley, Will Thursfield
Trade Patrick Bowden
06 National.........13.............Jack Riewoldt
........................26.............Shane Edwards
........................58.............Daniel Connors
........................60.............Carl Peterson
........................73.............Andrew Collins
Preseason Matthew White,
Trade Graham Polak
07 National.........2.............Trent Cotchin
........................18...........Alex Rance
........................52...........Dean Putt
Preseason David Gourdis
Trades Mitch Morton, Jordon McMahon
Now 04 to 07 is the Wallace rein, while i think recruiting has come along way in talent identification, i think this group looks alot better. Most of these players are still young and developing they look alot better then the previous lot. While there is still the odd mistakes there far fewer, and i'm not saying everyone will make the big time. In saying that the 04 draft players are still only 22 so by my theory they should be allowed still 2 years, yet still alot of these players are shouldering considerable workloads that are not usually expected of them for at least another 4-5 years.
The Trades
Since Wallace has arrived he has done a few trades, alot of people haven't agreed with them but i have. alot of the players who we have picked up is to firstly try and fill that age gap, in that core group, McMahon, Polak. secondly to help the team straight away, simmonds. or thirdly to trade for players that are the age of the already drafted young players coming through, Morton. these trades didn't have to be made but i think they needed to be to make us more competitive immediately and in the future. i think they had to be done to provide leadership and allow younger players to develop. Also a lot of you think you can get something of value cheaply, it happens rarely, you have to give up value to get value, if you want Warnock expect us to have to give up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick, i wouldn't give up a 1st rounder though.
Comparisons
So many posters continue to compare us to either the hawks or the doggies, but the only thing we really have in common is that we where all at the bottom of the ladder in 04 when wallace, eade and clarkson all started coaching there respective teams. they forget to remember what i have been reinforcing through this post, (that core group is the key)
The Hawks have Bateman, Boyle, Brown, Campbell, Croad, Gilham, Guerra, Hodge, Mitchell, Osbourne, Sewell, Taylor, and Williams. While the doggies have Boyd, Cross, Giansiracusa, Gilbee, Hahn, Hargrave, Lake, Morris, and Murphy. compare these groups with our core group Coughlan, Hyde, McMahon, Moore, Newman, Pettifer, Polak, King, Tuck.
For the hawks having this core group has allowed for players like Franklin, Roughead and lewis to develop at their own rate with little pressure and it shows. Same with the doggies the with the likes of Cooney and Griffin. We haven't had this luxury, and that puts more pressure onto the deledios the tamblings and it shows. And inturn results in some idiodic post/threads like delist tambling and delist Jon. there 20-1, i'm so glad their not coaching richmond. This gap in the list is the reason why Wallace was giving 5years to assemble a list, again idiodic posters say his had his time sack him, wrong his assembled/still assembling the list, so really his time as coach starts now. if he was to have the same list as what eade and clarkson started with, wallace's 3 year contract as coach should be starting from 2010 after he has finished his 5 year contract as list assembler.
