Autopsy The Forgotten Man....

[go hawks!!!]

The forgotten Man
Is........Clinton Young. I know you were thinking it was the World’s strongest man Xavier Ellis.
With the evolution of Isaac Smith and his improvement in 2011, and Young’s lack of form in 2011 due to both form and injury and it could be argued a change in gameplan, Clinton Young is now the forgotten man of the HFC. Many suggested a trade at the end of last year, however, I am happy to see him on the list.
I have been to training since November and Young has participated in a full pre-season without issue. If he continues to train well, and perhaps adapt his game a little to the new game plan (he struggled in 2011 with short kicking rather than his natural long kicking), he will be a weapon for us....in two respects:
1. As a fast running wingman, running and carrying
2. As depth ready to march in in the vent of injury or when players need to be rested
In relation to (1), you may say, nah shit no, we have Isaac, I say, nah both of them can play in the same team. How good would it be to see two running left footers taking on the opposition, with fantastic lateral movement, excellent speed and long/ skilful kicking to beat the zone?
So on the wing, I see Isaac as a definite. On the other wing I see Young competing with Savage. I don’t see Bateman playing on the wing this year. Unofrtunately Cameron Bruce is the other wingman in consideration, and if we were to use Channel 9’s viewer choice, that bald bastard would not get a vote.
Clinton’s knock back is his lack of defensive skills, so h cannot play that Birchall role which Clarko tried to play him in 2009. However, h overcomes this with his speed, long accurate kicking and ability to kick goals. If he can improve his defensive skills, he will be a weapon for us in my opinion.
So I am suggesting that after a big pre-season in 2012, Youngy is back and will play a huge part in our premiership drive.
So the question is, who do you see on the other wing, is it Sav, Bruce, Bateman or Youngy......or anyone else? perhaps X?
Thoughts?

 

[Brant]

The forgotten Man
Is........Clinton Young. I know you were thinking it was the World’s strongest man Xavier Ellis.
With the evolution of Isaac Smith and his improvement in 2011, and Young’s lack of form in 2011 due to both form and injury and it could be argued a change in gameplan, Clinton Young is now the forgotten man of the HFC. Many suggested a trade at the end of last year, however, I am happy to see him on the list.
I have been to training since November and Young has participated in a full pre-season without issue. If he continues to train well, and perhaps adapt his game a little to the new game plan (he struggled in 2011 with short kicking rather than his natural long kicking), he will be a weapon for us....in two respects:
1. As a fast running wingman, running and carrying
2. As depth ready to march in in the vent of injury or when players need to be rested
In relation to (1), you may say, nah shit no, we have Isaac, I say, nah both of them can play in the same team. How good would it be to see two running left footers taking on the opposition, with fantastic lateral movement, excellent speed and long/ skilful kicking to beat the zone?
So on the wing, I see Isaac as a definite. On the other wing I see Young competing with Savage. I don’t see Bateman playing on the wing this year. Unofrtunately Cameron Bruce is the other wingman in consideration, and if we were to use Channel 9’s viewer choice, that bald bastard would not get a vote.
Clinton’s knock back is his lack of defensive skills, so h cannot play that Birchall role which Clarko tried to play him in 2009. However, h overcomes this with his speed, long accurate kicking and ability to kick goals. If he can improve his defensive skills, he will be a weapon for us in my opinion.
So I am suggesting that after a big pre-season in 2012, Youngy is back and will play a huge part in our premiership drive.
So the question is, who do you see on the other wing, is it Sav, Bruce, Bateman or Youngy......or anyone else? perhaps X?
Thoughts?

What about playing him HFF then gh?

I agree that his defensive side isn't great, but that wouldn't be such an issue if he was a free wheeling HFF'er running up to & back from the wing. Can he lead and/or mark?

* Personally, I don't think he has the accuracy by foot to hit forwards on the lead when in traffic; not like WX does anyway. Just a thought as your OP seemed devoid of options as to where to play him (other than the Wing).

 

[Jaeger]

Young was in our top 5 best/most important players in 2010, IMO.

If he can get back to (or improve on) his 2008, early '09, and 2010 form he's in our best 22 for mine.

Not sure what happened to him last year. Was really disappointing in the seniors, and didn't do much at all for Box Hill. Injuries have always been his worst enemy.

We are a better side when Dasher is playing well, and I suspect he'll surpass Changa this year.

Savage/Smith can rotate through wing and HF with him.

 

[under achievers]

I hope he can work his way back into the side, that left foot is a deadly weapon when he is in form. Lets not forget that he would have been close to leading the norm smith voting when he went off injured in the 2008 gf.

My only issue is that i can't see the side being able to carry all three of Young, Smith and Savage and to be honest, i think i would rather have Smith and Savage in the side.

And the question still remains, has the game gone past him? Like i said, i do hope that he can get back out there and play an important role for us because at his best he is great to watch.

 

[WWSD]

There Is a spot for Young in our best 22 IMO. But it's either HB or HF. Preferably HB. I see our Center Line being like this....

Smith Mitchell Savage

 

[illnino]

Good to hear he is going alright at this time of year....if there's one thing Young needs, it's a full pre-season under his belt. With it, I certainly can see him forcing his way back into our best 22 this year, especially if he can string a few good NAB Cup games together.

That long left footer of his, although it can be deadly, it was anything but last year. I really hope he can put it all back together again and take his game to yet another level this year by improving on his defensive capabilities, as others have also said. But going back to that left foot, it really was off line for most of last year, especially when going for goal, so I think it's seriously important for him to figure that out before he worries too much about the other areas of his game - It really is the main thing he brings to the table with regards to his selection. This, along with a solid fitness base, will hold him in good stead in 2012.

Nothing but the best Dasher.

As an aside, Ellis is very much in a similar situation, but luckily for him he isn't so one dimensional with the way he plays. There are spots on the ground that are there for the taking if he can grab them. He and Young could still both use a few kilos too, but Ellis in particular seems to be really struggling in this area. Will be interesting to see how both these guys go early on in the praccy games and NAB Cup.

 

[Brant]

Good to hear he is going alright at this time of year....if there's one thing Young needs, it's a full pre-season under his belt. With it, I certainly can see him forcing his way back into our best 22 this year, especially if he can string a few good NAB Cup games together.

That long left footer of his, although it can be deadly, it was anything but last year. I really hope he can put it all back together again and take his game to yet another level this year by improving on his defensive capabilities, as others have also said. But going back to that left foot, it really was off line for most of last year, especially when going for goal, so I think it's seriously important for him to figure that out before he worries too much about the other areas of his game - It really is the main thing he brings to the table with regards to his selection. This, along with a solid fitness base, will hold him in good stead in 2012.

Nothing but the best Dasher.

As an aside, Ellis is very much in a similar situation, but luckily for him he isn't so one dimensional with the way he plays. There are spots on the ground that are there for the taking if he can grab them. He and Young could still both use a few kilos too, but Ellis in particular seems to be really struggling in this area. Will be interesting to see how both these guys go early on in the praccy games and NAB Cup.

Interested to hear what spots you think are up for grabs Illnino?

* Not suggesting some aren't of course - just wondering where you think Ellis may grab a spot?

 

[smithy_9]

Needs to go when it's his turn and fix up those kicking skills then he will be welcomed back with open arms.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Very handy player to have in the mix.

If he has a full preseason it'll make a big difference to his output obviously.

Hope he swallows plenty of mongrel pills this summer and comes out takes the game on and the opponent.

If he can't break into the 22 when fully fit, I'm guessing it's not a bad thing for the team

 

[Henry Jr]

Thought you were talking about your mate Boo for a moment GH.

 

[Hodginator]

There is nothing more I'd love to see this year than having a fit Young on the park...and my wife's giving birth to our first born sometime this week

 

[illnino]

Interested to hear what spots you think are up for grabs Illnino?

* Not suggesting some aren't of course - just wondering where you think Ellis may grab a spot?

It's not so much that there are spots up for grabs, Brant, because obviously with the team we have assembled over the last few years it's getting harder and harder to slot them all in, but it's more to do with the fact that Ellis, when he is healthy, fit and firing (and I stress all 3 of those), is more than capable of forcing his way into our best 22 in a number of positions, regardless of the form of the fringe 22 player he might replace.

Quite simply, we just haven't seen Ellis at his sustained best for far, far too long - The times he's managed to avoid injury, get himself into good shape and find a bit of form, have been few and far between over the last 3 years - But when he does manage to do those 3 things over a sustained period of time, just like any player, the results will speak for themselves. Some players can play well even without a proper fitness base due to an interrupted preseason or even while carrying an injury - Ellis isn't one of them.

The thing with Ellis though, is that he has a lot more potential talent to unleash if he can get himself right than a lot of other players out there in similar situations. The guy was a top 3 draft pick. You don't go top 3 unless you have some serious talent. It's up to him now to get his body right to be able to showcase that talent and repay the club for it's faith.

To stop dodging the question though p), for me to decide who he might replace in our best 22 if his from warrants it, I first need a best 22. I'll use mine from the "your best 22's" thread;

B: Stratton Gilham Puopolo

HB: Guerra Gibson Birchall

C: Smith Mitchell Lewis

HF: Gunston Franklin Burgoyne

F: Rioli Roughead Osborne

RR: Bailey Hodge Sewell

INT: Hale Shiels Whitecross Suckling (rotating substitute player)

EMG: Savage Breust Schoenmakers

Now, if Ellis is fit, firing and getting a few BOG's for Box Hill (or in the NAB Cup etc.), he should be able to at least force his way onto the emergency list in place of either Savage or Breust. From there, if his fitness was maintained and his good form continued, I could easily see him literally forcing his way into the team as a rotation through the middle, though playing mainly off either of the four flanks and even with spells in either 4 pockets given the right match-ups. He's proven to be a very versatile player when playing well, so I feel that with a bit of a shuffle of the team lineup he could possibly replace either Suckling or Whitecross if he's playing well enough, or even possibly Osborne or Guerra if their form should taper off a bit.

Granted, this all requires a fair bit to go right for Young X, and of course going by the last few years there really hasn't been too much of a reason for supporters to get their hopes up, but at just 23 years old he should be coming into the prime of his career over the next few years and I can't wait to see what he can do this year with a solid fitness base should he manage to get through the rest of the preseason unscathed (touch wood).

Edit: Sorry for derailing the thread, though a lot of this post speaks for where Young is at in his career also IMO.

 

[grizzlym]

Youngy isn't a bad forgotten man to have lurking around the edges. Especially if he's got his body right and his confidence is up. It'll be interesting to see the role that Clarko has in store for him. Since he's played good, consistent footy our game's changed a bit.

I look forward to seeing him carrying the ball and bombing it kilometers forward with that lethal boot of his.

 

[TAITA]

More than anything I'd say his greatest deficiency is a total lack of a right side more than defensive skills.

At the moment he is just too easy to work out if you can corral/catch him.

If he can/is adding polish to his skills on both sides he is very definitely in the mix, but will struggle otherwise.

 

[Hungry Hawk]

Could be an ideal sub

 

[Cynic]

Could be an ideal sub

I don't think so. I can't see Young ever being a player that injects himself into games.

He's already been overtaken by Smith personally and is now well outside our best 22.

 

[hawk for 37]

Sadly, a depth player at best and lucky to be on the list these days. With the arrival of Smith, Savage and Pup, not a good year to down on form and injured.

Would prefer Ladson to stay.

Don't recall Youngy putting his body on the line like Laddo did to help win that game v Kangas at Aurora this year.

That was Laddo's last act as a Hawk.

Young's last year unless he performs above and beyond in 2012.

 

[Hungry Hawk]

I have an example of Young "injecting" himself into a game with effect.

Was our first game v the Cats 09 IIRC.

He missed the shot at the end of the game by a miniscule margin that would have won us the game. He had a few important touches/runs towards the end of the game.

I like the orginal line of this thread. We have'nt seen a full fit Young since 08. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Hopefully we will forget that we forgot him.

 

[TheFourPillars]

More than anything I'd say his greatest deficiency is a total lack of a right side more than defensive skills.

At the moment he is just too easy to work out if you can corral/catch him.

If he can/is adding polish to his skills on both sides he is very definitely in the mix, but will struggle otherwise.

Was going to say the same thing Taita. Similar to birchall in that respect and birch was able to turn it around. Its up to young to do the same. He won't have a better opportunity to do so given that he finishes this pre season uninjured

 

[blue harvest]

If the coach says when you get the ball run as far as you can and kick it as long as you can then he is a great addition to the side. If he is not allowed to do this then there is no point him being in the side.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Make or break years for Youngy and X.

Hope they both have career best seasons.

 

[go hawks!!!]

Make or break years for Youngy and X.

Hope they both have career best seasons.

I Agree with you sentiments CLA, I wish them both the best. If they are not in line for senior selection, they provide much needed depth.

To Bard, I can't see youngy playing as a HFF to tell the truth, and believe he has improved on his right foot more than Issac, Buddy and Birch have and in fact early in 2011, kicked a few goals on his opposite.

I really think Youngy will play 10+ games this year.

X - I am not sure on what his role/ position will be, I just can't see it.

 

[HeHateMe]

Was going to say the same thing Taita. Similar to birchall in that respect and birch was able to turn it around. Its up to young to do the same. He won't have a better opportunity to do so given that he finishes this pre season uninjured

He had a right side in 2010 if i remember right. Not the best but looked confident to use it, it was the old Dale Thomas 15-20 meter spear along the boundary when he couldn't turn on to his left or ran out of space.

 

[TheFourPillars]

He had a right side in 2010 if i remember right. Not the best but looked confident to use it, it was the old Dale Thomas 15-20 meter spear along the boundary when he couldn't turn on to his left or ran out of space.

Its a confidence thing really he has no confidence on his wrong side. Given the nature of our gameplan there is very little room to manouvre. He will need to take his game to another level to break into this side. I of course am a 100% behind him. Will watch him closely at box hill if thats where he ends up playing initially

 

[HawkNation]

Takes the wrong option alot when the heat is on in a big game late.