Mega Thread The Former Player Thread: Part 2

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connolly

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Merry Xmas to everyone!
Looking forward to chatting with you guys in the new year whether we agree or disagree.
Cheers:)
Ted!
All the best. You are probably the closest thing we have here to the voice of reason. Which can be so annoying sometimes.
 

connolly

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No there wouldn't have been and this shows your fundamental misunderstanding of how the salary cap works. They had contracts signed prior to mid 2016 (in McVeigh's case 2014) when North offered Heeney $1million a year. So if they retired it would be a sunk cost in our cap regardless (think how Tippett is on our list this year for cap reasons) and we still lose Mitchell because those contracts would've still counted in our cap and with North's offer Heeney would still re-sign for more than expected. So all your done is retire two players but still leave the club counting their contracts against the cap and we still end up in the same position of picking between Mitchell/Heeney/Mills.



To you it might be, but simply put the Swans expected to pay Heeney and Mills a certain amount into the future (not the $1 million a year North offered Heeney) and still be able to keep Mitchell. Once North offered Heeney $1 million a year to join them after the 2016 season that threw out any forward planning that club had done around the salary cap into the future for us to keep Heeney away from North and meant a player we wanted to keep was lost.

So while yes we have "bad" contracts we could name like Tippett, McVeigh and Jack's they were known and expected costs against the cap when planning to re-sign Mitchell started. North offering $1million for Heeney and thus having to overpay to keep him wasn't. Thus the reason why it comes down to those three contracts and not others.

Its not as easy as saying lets retire so and so.
I accept all that. However, I also perhaps naively believe salary cap strategy should be based on a couple of years planning. Are you saying that the club couldn't work out McV and Jacks declining rate of return and their birth dates? The club had no idea that the contract price of star players wasn't going to escalate above the CPI particularly since we kicked it off with the Franklin contract? We didn't know the cap would be raised a few years ago? So we were just caught short without enough change in our pocket? If that is true then its an awful example of mismanagement. Maybe we should take a lesson from the best manager of footballers in any code Lex Ferguson. He said he moved his older stars on before they declined and became a contract payment problem. But probably he is an old Scot socialist goose also.
 

Tedeski

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All the best. You are probably the closest thing we have here to the voice of reason. Which can be so annoying sometimes.
Thanks connolly.
We all love the Swans otherwise we wouldn't come on here to vent or cheer.
I myself mustn't lose sight of that & need to be reminded from time to time.
We have good discussion here on the Swan's board but I think it's at it's absolute best when we may disagree with each other but still show respect to each other.

For that reason alone, I'll keep popping my head in for a look.
Cheers!
 

bedford

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Thanks connolly.
We all love the Swans otherwise we wouldn't come on here to vent or cheer.
I myself mustn't lose sight of that & need to be reminded from time to time.
We have good discussion here on the Swan's board but I think it's at it's absolute best when we may disagree with each other but still show respect to each other.

For that reason alone, I'll keep popping my head in for a look.
Cheers!
Or we just put them on ignore mate.
 

caesar88

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I know that I am going over old ground but I think that it is worthwhile to clarify a situation that many of us have speculated about over the past two years. Why did Tom Mitchell leave?
On a cruise that my wife and I just completed we came across some immediate members of Tom's family who only declared as much after we started talking about the footy and that we were Swan's supporters. One of them gave a very strange look when we mentioned this and I kept pressing them as to why. Eventually, they declared their relationship to him. For the sake of privacy, I won't declare exactly who they are but can assure you they know the true story in detail. They were not keen on telling the full story as they felt they were betraying Tom's confidentiality.
Firstly, they were adamant that Tom did NOT want to leave the Swans but was left with little option not to.
Tom declared to them only months after originally joining the Swans that John Longmire didn't seem to like him very much. He was told by his family that it was more than likely just in his head and not to worry or think about it too much. As time went on, he felt that it didn't seem to get any better.
The situation got so bad in Tom's eyes that he tried on a number of occasions to have a one on one discussion with Longmire about it but this was refused. Longmire literally refused to see one of his players who felt that there were issues.
Even though he felt somewhat unwanted he approached the club 6 months before his contract expired hoping to get a new deal done. He was continually told that there were other deals that needed to be finalised before they could look at his. Again, he tried to speak to Longmire about the situation but without success.
As time went on, it became quite obvious to Tom that the Swans weren't all that fussed about keeping him which was confirmed when they finally put an offer to him in August. The amount they offered was well below what should have been expected and was actually less than his current contract. As a result he started looking elsewhere (via his agent) and decided on Hawthorn. Hawthorn's offer was certainly not over the top like some offers to free agents have been recently but it was significantly more than Sydney's.
At the end of the day, it wasn't so much the money but it was the fact that he knew he wasn't respected or truly wanted at the Swans which forced him out the door. He still has a number of mates at the Swans who he is still very close to.
So for all those who have said over the last year or two "good riddance, he only left for the money" - you are sadly mistaken.
It is probably fair to say that Nick Newman falls into the same category. Not in Longmire's good books for whatever reason and is consequently no longer with us.
Shame the same thing won't happen with Longmire himself. He's certainly not in my good books.
I don’t like to dispute a fellow Swans poster as freedom of speech and all that, but I am calling your bluff. Apologies if this story is true but I just don’t buy it.
 

Bandicoot

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I don’t like to dispute a fellow Swans poster as freedom of speech and all that, but I am calling your bluff. Apologies if this story is true but I just don’t buy it.
By the same token, you have proved by many of your previous posts that the club can do no wrong in your eyes.
I love our club and have been a member since 1983 and was a member of South Melbourne prior to that. I was even in the cheer squad when we played our first final since 1945.
I would like to think that I am not an extremist one way or the other. I will praise our club when deserving of it (which is most of the time) and will criticise it (or individuals within) if I feel it is deserved.
I met Tom's family purely by chance whilst having breakfast on a cruise around New Zealand. They told me what Tom had told them and I relayed that here. What on earth do I gain by making any of this up?
I cannot understand why you would suggest I am bluffing but you call it as you see it. As I say, I'm not surprised that you believe the club can do no wrong.
As was posted by Mick earlier it is time to move on anyway.
 

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caesar88

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By the same token, you have proved by many of your previous posts that the club can do no wrong in your eyes.
I love our club and have been a member since 1983 and was a member of South Melbourne prior to that. I was even in the cheer squad when we played our first final since 1945.
I would like to think that I am not an extremist one way or the other. I will praise our club when deserving of it (which is most of the time) and will criticise it (or individuals within) if I feel it is deserved.
I met Tom's family purely by chance whilst having breakfast on a cruise around New Zealand. They told me what Tom had told them and I relayed that here. What on earth do I gain by making any of this up?
I cannot understand why you would suggest I am bluffing but you call it as you see it. As I say, I'm not surprised that you believe the club can do no wrong.
As was posted by Mick earlier it is time to move on anyway.
I don't think I'm such a supporter with rose-coloured glasses on. I like to think I call it as I see it, good or bad. I just don't believe the story. Either you're telling porkies that it happened (I don't think you are as, like you said, what would you gain from making it up), or his "family" are telling porkies. Because I've found from numerous experiences in the past that anyone supposedly "in-the-know" who is willing to sit down with a total stranger and divulge such intricate and loaded stories is usually just BS-ing. They're either fishing for a reaction or trying to promote their own agenda to validate their views on a subject. I've seen it happen over and over.

Now do I believe the club does everything right? Absolutely not. But allowing the senior coach to refuse to speak to one of his players? And no one at the club doing anything about it? Come on..
 

Kummerspeck

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Now do I believe the club does everything right? Absolutely not. But allowing the senior coach to refuse to speak to one of his players? And no one at the club doing anything about it? Come on..
Pretty much the crux of it. Could the club have handled contracts better and left Mitchell more? Yeah probably. Every club could have.

Do I believe the club had a senior coach who's known for his man management behaving that poorly to a player without the club stepping in, or that the club was actively ignoring approaches from a player to re-sign until August despite almost every possible source saying they were in talks?

Not for a second.
 

Bandicoot

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I don't think I'm such a supporter with rose-coloured glasses on. I like to think I call it as I see it, good or bad. I just don't believe the story. Either you're telling porkies that it happened (I don't think you are as, like you said, what would you gain from making it up), or his "family" are telling porkies. Because I've found from numerous experiences in the past that anyone supposedly "in-the-know" who is willing to sit down with a total stranger and divulge such intricate and loaded stories is usually just BS-ing. They're either fishing for a reaction or trying to promote their own agenda to validate their views on a subject. I've seen it happen over and over.

Now do I believe the club does everything right? Absolutely not. But allowing the senior coach to refuse to speak to one of his players? And no one at the club doing anything about it? Come on..
I don't have a problem with you saying "I don't believe it". That's your choice.
I just took offence to your insinuation that I made the whole thing up.
As I said much earlier, they were quite reluctant to give me details and it was only after my constant asking for more details that I got the information I did. I also questioned the part about Longmire's refusal to discuss the issues with Mitchell but they were quite clear. Keeping in mind that it is possible that Tom told them porkies.
Whether people believe what I have said is correct or otherwise is totally up to them but this IS what I was told.
 

caesar88

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I don't have a problem with you saying "I don't believe it". That's your choice.
I just took offence to your insinuation that I made the whole thing up.
As I said much earlier, they were quite reluctant to give me details and it was only after my constant asking for more details that I got the information I did. I also questioned the part about Longmire's refusal to discuss the issues with Mitchell but they were quite clear. Keeping in mind that it is possible that Tom told them porkies.
Whether people believe what I have said is correct or otherwise is totally up to them but this IS what I was told.
My apologies for not being clearer. FWIW I trust the sincerity of all posters on here, because it's an anonymous internet forum so there's little to be gained from spreading blatant fabrications. It's the people you meet face to face who seem to spread rumours and innuendos for fun.
 

bedford

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By the same token, you have proved by many of your previous posts that the club can do no wrong in your eyes.
I love our club and have been a member since 1983 and was a member of South Melbourne prior to that. I was even in the cheer squad when we played our first final since 1945.
I would like to think that I am not an extremist one way or the other. I will praise our club when deserving of it (which is most of the time) and will criticise it (or individuals within) if I feel it is deserved.
I met Tom's family purely by chance whilst having breakfast on a cruise around New Zealand. They told me what Tom had told them and I relayed that here. What on earth do I gain by making any of this up?
I cannot understand why you would suggest I am bluffing but you call it as you see it. As I say, I'm not surprised that you believe the club can do no wrong.
As was posted by Mick earlier it is time to move on anyway.
In the cheer squad in 70 and helped with 3 others to make the banner , no doubt we know one another.
 

Bandicoot

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My apologies for not being clearer. FWIW I trust the sincerity of all posters on here, because it's an anonymous internet forum so there's little to be gained from spreading blatant fabrications. It's the people you meet face to face who seem to spread rumours and innuendos for fun.
I would love to give more information as to who these "relatives" were but I feel that doing so would be inappropriate and unfair to them. Just let me say that they are not the type of people you would expect to make up or tell stories. I had no doubt that they truly believed what they were saying was true and I would not have made the post if I thought otherwise. Whether what they were told by Tom is true is another matter to which I can't confirm one way or the other.
 

Kummerspeck

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I I had no doubt that they truly believed what they were saying was true and I would not have made the post if I thought otherwise. Whether what they were told by Tom is true is another matter to which I can't confirm one way or the other.
Yet you posted it as fact, used it as a base to push a view on the coaching staff and mocked people who doubt it based on much stronger evidence as stupid.
 

Bandicoot

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Yet you posted it as fact, used it as a base to push a view on the coaching staff and mocked people who doubt it based on much stronger evidence as stupid'X.
And you place your argument on what player agents say as being fact. I'll believe my source rather than yours.
 

Kummerspeck

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And you place your argument on what player agents say as being fact. I'll believe my source rather than yours.
Why do you keep ignoring that the club said the same thing as the agent? Again, do you believe that the club repeatedly rebuffed Tom attempting to re-sign and didn't offer him a contract until August. Third time, let's see if you can answer it.
 

Bandicoot

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Why do you keep ignoring that the club said the same thing as the agent? Again, do you believe that the club repeatedly rebuffed Tom attempting to re-sign and didn't offer him a contract until August. Third time, let's see if you can answer it.
Please tell me how they could have possibly offered him a contract prior to knowing how much they had left in the cap. They were still waiting to finalise Heeney's contract.
 
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