Some perspective for these NAB games, collingwood fielded a very inexperienced side that nearly lost to GWS. While winning is nice, it's not realy the point of what we're trying to get out of these games.
The Forward Press
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Some perspective for these NAB games, collingwood fielded a very inexperienced side that nearly lost to GWS. While winning is nice, it's not realy the point of what we're trying to get out of these games.
Our press looked okay Sunday (what a thrill to see an actual game plan in practice!!) but West Coast's was far superior...
The big difference I noticed was that our setup ended at about the center-bounce circle, whereas going the other way the Eagles' tended to have Hurn and another player 15-20 meters futher back. It seems that once Essendon and West Coast had moved the ball past our last line at the center circle, it became a mad 50/50 dash where we hoped we could win it back before their speedy players could get a hold of the ball and turn it into a one on one or uncontested scoring chance in their forward fifty. Setting up that further half a kick back may help eliminate the frequency of this occurring.
From what I've seen, the Eagles have as good a press as anyone, and as such I'd have no qualms if we tried to emulate it (particularly considering we play the same amount of games as them at Subi every year). With the Eagles' game plan as it currently stands, I'd say Shannon Hurn is their most valuable player, meaning that we need to find our own version of him or Harry O' / Heath Shaw.
It seemed that young Jayden Pitt had this responsibility in patches on Sunday, and I'm absolutely thrilled that he was given the opportunity cos I think he's a real chance to come good for us there in the future. But this role also requires a physical presence cos he'll often find himself one on one as the last man in defense and I'm not sure Pitty has the tools quite yet.
So who does that leave? I think Luke MacPharlin and Michael Johnson are the options that one's mind naturally would spring to as they play their best footy in defense and obviously have A-grade disposal. But I personally think we could use their physical marking power further up the ground.
It might be contentious, but for mine, I'd love to see Stephen Hill given this quasi-quarterback role. He's beefed up magnificently in the last few years, and we'd be putting his speed, footy smarts and lethal left boot to great affect setting up from the last man back position. It's a tough trade off though cos I loved what Hilly was was doing further up the ground on Sunday (as he has been doing most of his career), but I think you need a player of his caliber performing this role because like I said, the nature of the press would make him our most important player. Hopefully players like Mora, Menegola and Pitt can then fill the "get a full head of steam and bash and crash til you can find some space on the wing" role that he currently does so well.
Going the other way I personally support the Zac Clarke forward experiment and Chris Mayne staying in the side cos I can see it panning out like this. The ball is at our defensive end and we have just kicked it out. We've managed to move the ball past the half forward flank but the intense pressure of the opposition's forward press has resulted in the inevitable attempted long bomb over the top. Up the ground Mayney and Clarke have been manning up hard and haven't given an inch to those last two rebounding players back for the opposition. There's hope that they can out mark their opponents cause Mayney can take a decent grab and Clarkey will probably have a handy few cms on his opponent. If they can't manage this however they've hopefully gotten the ball to spill to the ground where you can back their running and harassing abilities to create a chance for Pav (big bomb from 60
) or Mello, Ballas and our speedy smaller players to come through and keep the ball moving towards goal.
Like people are saying, it was pretty obvious that Lyon deliberately forced our players to work on absorbing pressure under fatigue against a good opposition on Sunday - Shannon Hurn had free reign across the back and every time we wobbled the ball out of the press he just sent it straight back in. Yeah we got beat, but I was so happy to see that on an individual level most players held their own... You can really admire the depth of this thinking, particularly seeing he's done it immediately after allowing the boys to get some confidence against a weak bombers outfit by expressing themselves with some real attacking flair. It was a brilliantly subtle way of saying "Hold on boys, we can't always have it our own way. There'll be times where we can enjoy getting the better of the opposition, and other times when we have to fight tooth and nail to keep them out".
Sure, on Sunday West Coast fans got to see their press still works against two bottom 8 teams, great. We got to see the makings of a distinct new gameplan, intelligence emanating from the box and a hardnose willingness from our players to compete at every contest. I honestly can't see what afl08 could possibly be so disappointed with...
Get excited people - In 2012 Fremantle F.C. goes pro!
The big difference I noticed was that our setup ended at about the center-bounce circle, whereas going the other way the Eagles' tended to have Hurn and another player 15-20 meters futher back. It seems that once Essendon and West Coast had moved the ball past our last line at the center circle, it became a mad 50/50 dash where we hoped we could win it back before their speedy players could get a hold of the ball and turn it into a one on one or uncontested scoring chance in their forward fifty. Setting up that further half a kick back may help eliminate the frequency of this occurring.
From what I've seen, the Eagles have as good a press as anyone, and as such I'd have no qualms if we tried to emulate it (particularly considering we play the same amount of games as them at Subi every year). With the Eagles' game plan as it currently stands, I'd say Shannon Hurn is their most valuable player, meaning that we need to find our own version of him or Harry O' / Heath Shaw.
It seemed that young Jayden Pitt had this responsibility in patches on Sunday, and I'm absolutely thrilled that he was given the opportunity cos I think he's a real chance to come good for us there in the future. But this role also requires a physical presence cos he'll often find himself one on one as the last man in defense and I'm not sure Pitty has the tools quite yet.
So who does that leave? I think Luke MacPharlin and Michael Johnson are the options that one's mind naturally would spring to as they play their best footy in defense and obviously have A-grade disposal. But I personally think we could use their physical marking power further up the ground.
It might be contentious, but for mine, I'd love to see Stephen Hill given this quasi-quarterback role. He's beefed up magnificently in the last few years, and we'd be putting his speed, footy smarts and lethal left boot to great affect setting up from the last man back position. It's a tough trade off though cos I loved what Hilly was was doing further up the ground on Sunday (as he has been doing most of his career), but I think you need a player of his caliber performing this role because like I said, the nature of the press would make him our most important player. Hopefully players like Mora, Menegola and Pitt can then fill the "get a full head of steam and bash and crash til you can find some space on the wing" role that he currently does so well.
Going the other way I personally support the Zac Clarke forward experiment and Chris Mayne staying in the side cos I can see it panning out like this. The ball is at our defensive end and we have just kicked it out. We've managed to move the ball past the half forward flank but the intense pressure of the opposition's forward press has resulted in the inevitable attempted long bomb over the top. Up the ground Mayney and Clarke have been manning up hard and haven't given an inch to those last two rebounding players back for the opposition. There's hope that they can out mark their opponents cause Mayney can take a decent grab and Clarkey will probably have a handy few cms on his opponent. If they can't manage this however they've hopefully gotten the ball to spill to the ground where you can back their running and harassing abilities to create a chance for Pav (big bomb from 60
) or Mello, Ballas and our speedy smaller players to come through and keep the ball moving towards goal. Like people are saying, it was pretty obvious that Lyon deliberately forced our players to work on absorbing pressure under fatigue against a good opposition on Sunday - Shannon Hurn had free reign across the back and every time we wobbled the ball out of the press he just sent it straight back in. Yeah we got beat, but I was so happy to see that on an individual level most players held their own... You can really admire the depth of this thinking, particularly seeing he's done it immediately after allowing the boys to get some confidence against a weak bombers outfit by expressing themselves with some real attacking flair. It was a brilliantly subtle way of saying "Hold on boys, we can't always have it our own way. There'll be times where we can enjoy getting the better of the opposition, and other times when we have to fight tooth and nail to keep them out".
Sure, on Sunday West Coast fans got to see their press still works against two bottom 8 teams, great. We got to see the makings of a distinct new gameplan, intelligence emanating from the box and a hardnose willingness from our players to compete at every contest. I honestly can't see what afl08 could possibly be so disappointed with...
Get excited people - In 2012 Fremantle F.C. goes pro!
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Yep, you most definitely would. But he obviously had some success in shaking said tag in what was a pretty dominant 2011 for him, as opposed to Duffield who struggled with having players sent to him all year... Hilly's experiences with a tag could potentially put him in good stead for this kinda role.
That would suit Josh Mellington .
Good speed, takes a reasonable grab, acceptable strength and hates being beaten.
Any possession Hurn got would have taken a toll on him.
Mix it up with Smokey occasionally just to let him know there's a big knock around the corner.
That knocked me down too but I knew injuries would take a toll. Once they did I was resigned to the losses
Why do I expect 2 wins against the Eagles?
It's simple!
Higher expectations or is that a concept people aren't familiar with
Seems like everyone's happy with the opening round of the NAB Cup and good luck to them.
All I'm saying is that I thought the second match was shit to watch and I've got everyone jumping down my throat for it. Is it really that bad to expect better? Apparantly so
I just don't understand Ross Lyon in all honesty. I was looking for some sort of understanding as to what he might play and really, I left more confused than ever. Well actually, I switched off in disgust with 2 minutes left of the West Coast game as I'd had enough of the shit not to mention I had a phone call at that time which was more interesting than losing my cool at home.
Now that I understand that we never really intended to win that West Coast game, I just feel like I wasted my time watching it, that's all I'm simply getting at.
People who walk off early or turn the radio/tv are fans but not supporters
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Our press looked okay Sunday (what a thrill to see an actual game plan in practice!!) but West Coast's was far superior...
The big difference I noticed was that our setup ended at about the center-bounce circle, whereas going the other way the Eagles' tended to have Hurn and another player 15-20 meters futher back. It seems that once Essendon and West Coast had moved the ball past our last line at the center circle, it became a mad 50/50 dash where we hoped we could win it back before their speedy players could get a hold of the ball and turn it into a one on one or uncontested scoring chance in their forward fifty. Setting up that further half a kick back may help eliminate the frequency of this occurring.
From what I've seen, the Eagles have as good a press as anyone, and as such I'd have no qualms if we tried to emulate it (particularly considering we play the same amount of games as them at Subi every year). With the Eagles' game plan as it currently stands, I'd say Shannon Hurn is their most valuable player, meaning that we need to find our own version of him or Harry O' / Heath Shaw.
It seemed that young Jayden Pitt had this responsibility in patches on Sunday, and I'm absolutely thrilled that he was given the opportunity cos I think he's a real chance to come good for us there in the future. But this role also requires a physical presence cos he'll often find himself one on one as the last man in defense and I'm not sure Pitty has the tools quite yet.
So who does that leave? I think Luke MacPharlin and Michael Johnson are the options that one's mind naturally would spring to as they play their best footy in defense and obviously have A-grade disposal. But I personally think we could use their physical marking power further up the ground.
It might be contentious, but for mine, I'd love to see Stephen Hill given this quasi-quarterback role. He's beefed up magnificently in the last few years, and we'd be putting his speed, footy smarts and lethal left boot to great affect setting up from the last man back position. It's a tough trade off though cos I loved what Hilly was was doing further up the ground on Sunday (as he has been doing most of his career), but I think you need a player of his caliber performing this role because like I said, the nature of the press would make him our most important player. Hopefully players like Mora, Menegola and Pitt can then fill the "get a full head of steam and bash and crash til you can find some space on the wing" role that he currently does so well.
Going the other way I personally support the Zac Clarke forward experiment and Chris Mayne staying in the side cos I can see it panning out like this. The ball is at our defensive end and we have just kicked it out. We've managed to move the ball past the half forward flank but the intense pressure of the opposition's forward press has resulted in the inevitable attempted long bomb over the top. Up the ground Mayney and Clarke have been manning up hard and haven't given an inch to those last two rebounding players back for the opposition. There's hope that they can out mark their opponents cause Mayney can take a decent grab and Clarkey will probably have a handy few cms on his opponent. If they can't manage this however they've hopefully gotten the ball to spill to the ground where you can back their running and harassing abilities to create a chance for Pav (big bomb from 60
Like people are saying, it was pretty obvious that Lyon deliberately forced our players to work on absorbing pressure under fatigue against a good opposition on Sunday - Shannon Hurn had free reign across the back and every time we wobbled the ball out of the press he just sent it straight back in. Yeah we got beat, but I was so happy to see that on an individual level most players held their own... You can really admire the depth of this thinking, particularly seeing he's done it immediately after allowing the boys to get some confidence against a weak bombers outfit by expressing themselves with some real attacking flair. It was a brilliantly subtle way of saying "Hold on boys, we can't always have it our own way. There'll be times where we can enjoy getting the better of the opposition, and other times when we have to fight tooth and nail to keep them out".
Sure, on Sunday West Coast fans got to see their press still works against two bottom 8 teams, great. We got to see the makings of a distinct new gameplan, intelligence emanating from the box and a hardnose willingness from our players to compete at every contest. I honestly can't see what afl08 could possibly be so disappointed with...
Get excited people - In 2012 Fremantle F.C. goes pro!
Excellent post. I agree with this summary. You can see the beginnings of Lyons Freo Footy. Looking forward to watching it all coalesce.
In Ross' interview on " On the Couch " , when asked about the forward press in the Eagles game, I am sure he said in the first tense , "It was all good for me".
After that I can only try to reassure AFL08 that our coach has everything under control and evidently, working to his timetable.
sportsmaniac89
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I've never understood Ross Lyon in all honesty regardless and 2 half games just leave me further confused
I'm glad you're relieved at my admission
Wow, classy cheap shot there
To ask the bleeding obvious
Are you that ridiculous you don't understand the difference between Steve (Rosich and Harris) and Stephen (Hill)?
Also I'd like to add that I actually want to see Fremantle create a winning and successful culture and in my mind, going out with the intention to not win a game (whether it be pre-season or otherwise) is counter productive to the culture I want to see at the club.
People who make comments like the above had better know what they're actually talking about
Supporter - A person who is actively interested in and wishes success for a particular sports team.
Pretty sure I fit under that definition
Well I apologise for the fact that I don't trust people as easily as I used to. No amount of reassurance will make me trust anyone so easily.
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Learning to trust yourself, that is the greatest trust of all
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Can I ask why you have a sponsorship for Howard from the Bulldogs under your name afl08?
sportsmaniac89
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At this point in time I'm asking myself the exact same question?
I've never been on the Bulldogs board in my life and I'm serious about that.
EDIT: It's gone now. How strange!
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I was thinking the same thing.
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It wasn't a game it was a glorified training session.
At any rate, Ross Lyon wouldn't have even been calling the shots from the box, it would've been the assistant coaches. When do head coaches ever run the show during pre-season games? Not just in the AFL but in any sport. It's not just about development for the players.
His only comment was probably 'that's a good idea Suma; we certainly could put someone on Hurn. Lets just let this play out instead and see how the boys handle it.'
The bottom line is, it's all apart of preparation for rd 1. Giving certain guys extended runs, assimilating high pressure environments where it's difficult to break the lines when your teammates are fatigued etc. You can't trial this stuff in the season proper. Lyon said it himself - he wasn't steering the ship for the games last week. Get this through yer craniums!
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he'd also be letting the assistants steer the ship to see how the coaching box dynamic will work, so come the real thing, they're all heading in the same direction.
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Fan: Someone who turns off the telly or leaves the game early.
You join the dots and then have another cry.
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sportsmaniac89
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Incorrect.
To use the exact terms that others have "It's only a glorified training session" or "It's only a NAB Cup game"
Why should it matter if I turn off a "glorified training session" game early?
Come back to me when you realise that this is a non-issue and if you're incapable of that, don't bother responding to me.
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Well, I did say have another cry.
Pal, you threw the toys out of the cot because you lack the basic understanding of coaching.
It was other supporters/members who pointed out to you the strategic planning and thinking that Lyon employed during the Eagles game. And if you bothered to watch the On The Couch interview, Lyon himself confirmed this.
Anyone worth their salt, or who had one iota of footy nouse could see this, and would have been intruiged to see how our boys handled the situation for the duration of the match.
But no, you chuck a hissy fit and come on here and bag the crap out of Lyon.
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Well, I did say have another cry.
Pal, you threw the toys out of the cot because you lack the basic understanding of coaching.
It was other supporters/members who pointed out to you the strategic planning and thinking that Lyon employed during the Eagles game. And if you bothered to watch the On The Couch interview, Lyon himself confirmed this.
Anyone worth their salt, or who had one iota of footy nouse could see this, and would have been intruiged to see how our boys handled the situation for the duration of the match.
But no, you chuck a hissy fit and come on here and bag the crap out of Lyon.
HAHA
Oh wait...........you're serious
I didn't throw the toys out of the pram at all.
I simply said that it was a shit game to watch and coming off the back of such a great performance against Essendon, I actually had hope that we'd make it 2 from 2 only to be left predictably disappointed and frustrated.
I saw the situation unfold and really yes, I'm relieved that the game didn't blow out to ridiculous levels but frankly, once the Eagles got on top with Freo making the same mistakes again and again, it just became rubbish
I did actually watch the interview and it was a ****ing terrible interview. All it did was harp on about St Kilda, harp on about their Grand Finals, harp on about the shit which led to him becoming Fremantle coach. What was I looking for? His views on where he could take us! His views on Fremantle as a whole! I actually wanted some reassurance which surely isn't that hard. Did we get any of that? No chance in hell.
You know what?
Damn right I'll come out and bag Lyon. We want a winning culture I'd have thought and setting up the team so they have NO CHANCE OF WINNING is counter productive to the culture I want to see. Ross Lyon took a step forward against Essendon and then a step or 2 back against West Coast
Basically I expect better and this is what we call higher expectations. Something it seems you're not familiar with. If you're happy with Lyon tanking a pre-season game trying something different, well good luck to you but I expect better under Lyon and that applies to all aspects whether it be pre-season, home and away season or finals.
Yes this approach might lead me to meltdowns which might leave my health not looking too good but to be honest and frank I couldn't give a **** what people on here think of me. I already know I'm persona non grata (or part of the "out" crowd if you will) and I doubt anything (and I mean absolutely anything) will change people's minds.
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The last time I checked it was the interviewer who asked the questions and gave direction as to where the interview was heading.
But, as usual, that was Lyons fault as well.
I am not even going to bother responding to the rest of that crap.
You have no ****ing idea son and your blind bias is disturbing to say the least.
But, as usual, that was Lyons fault as well.
I am not even going to bother responding to the rest of that crap.
You have no ****ing idea son and your blind bias is disturbing to say the least.
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I just wish everyone would stop quoting him.
You can't even ignore people any more!
You can't even ignore people any more!
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If you have an emotional issue with the appointment of Lyon as senior coach, the only logical thing for you to do is exclude yourself from analysis of his immediate performance or you risk having your thoughts tainted by your feelings.
It's not fair to Lyon, the rest of the fans, or to yourself and you run the risk of throwing your mallet around in anger for the wrong reasons. Someone will call you out on that, explain how you misinterpreted what you have seen and you'll feel like a goose.
It's not fair to Lyon, the rest of the fans, or to yourself and you run the risk of throwing your mallet around in anger for the wrong reasons. Someone will call you out on that, explain how you misinterpreted what you have seen and you'll feel like a goose.
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