The Future

[muckraker]

I've been pleased by recent forum discussion about our future and delighted by Brisbane's olive branch to the club. My hope now is:
1) The Lions will adopt the Fitzroy jumper for away games beginning next year, or at least all Melbourne games (minimum six per year).
2) The Lions will establish a VFL team to be known as Fitzroy by taking over the licence of Bendigo or Preston, possibly playing at Preston or Northcote (and Bendigo if required).
3) AFL records will incorporate Fitzroy in the Lions history, just like South Melbourne for the Swans.
That doesn't seem too much to ask for, does it?

Just as an aside, I saw an old article from our local country paper recently that showed Simon Atkins and Matthew Primus taking a school footy clinic. The caption read ... "the Fitzroy players were an hour late, but more than 100 youngsters waited enthusiastically for their footy heroes to arrive". The photo showed the players with a dozen 6-8 year old kids in Fitzroy jumpers. I wonder who those kids barrack for now?

 

[Mobbs]

Whereabouts was that, muckraker?

 

[muckraker]

Wangaratta 1996

 

[Denno]

Originally posted by muckraker
I've been pleased by recent forum discussion about our future and delighted by Brisbane's olive branch to the club. My hope now is:
1) The Lions will adopt the Fitzroy jumper for away games beginning next year, or at least all Melbourne games (minimum six per year).
2) The Lions will establish a VFL team to be known as Fitzroy by taking over the licence of Bendigo or Preston, possibly playing at Preston or Northcote (and Bendigo if required).
3) AFL records will incorporate Fitzroy in the Lions history, just like South Melbourne for the Swans.
That doesn't seem too much to ask for, does it?

Muckraker, in a word, yes.

Firstly, while I can sympathise with your views (I am an old Fitzroy boy myself), there is no way known the Lions should wear the Fitzroy jumpers down here. Its a step backwards, and would be too divisive. What, and then Bears jumpers in Brisbane? What about games in Perth, Adel, etc? I believe it could be worn on a special occasion (as the early jumpers were in '96), but the Brisbane Lions jumpers should be worn all the time. Its basically a step backwards.
Secondly, as much as it would be good to see a Fitzroy team in the VFL, I think it is too big an ask at the moment. Take over Bendigo's licence, by all means, but not the Bullants! Its a big ask at the moment, but maybe, just maybe, with a bit of momentum, eventually it MAY happen.
Thirdly, agree totally. Brisbane is a different kettle of fish though. Sydney's records carried over, whereas Brisbane and Fitzroys SHOULD be combined. At the moment, the Bears ones are carried over. Maybe they should simply be listed under different categories. Fitzroy, Bears, and then BL's records listed. I think something is being done to address this issue, however.

 

[Olmy]

DENNO mate! How ya doin'? Good to see you on the Roys board! Hopefully you'll continue to make contributions!

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Re: Re: The Future

Originally posted by Denno
Sydney's records carried over, whereas Brisbane and Fitzroys SHOULD be combined. At the moment, the Bears ones are carried over. Maybe they should simply be listed under different categories. Fitzroy, Bears, and then BL's records listed. I think something is being done to address this issue, however.

I agree with you completely here Denno. The only fair thing for both clubs is to basically reboot the stats post 1996. Roys fans couldn't care less if Warwick Capper sealed a win for Brisbane over Carlton at Princes Park in 1990 (or whenever it was), and Bears fans can't relate to winning flags before the end of WW2. They should be celebrated and honoured by the new club, though!

Which as I understand is pretty much what the Brisbane Lions do now - they count their stats as a new club post-merger, whilst still honouring the records of players from both clubs. It's only the AFL that rigidly decreed that Bears records only should carry over. Not even many Bears fans think this is a good idea.

Denno, you say that something's being done to address this - can you give any details? The club's tried to change it many times since the merger.

 

[Denno]

In answer to your question, B of M, I believe that Graeme Downie (BL Chairman) has approached the AFL to formally recognize Bears and Fitzroy stats up till '96. This can only be good.

Yeah, good to hear from you, Olmy (or is that SME?). Where've ya been? BrissieLions been taking up a bit of time? Fair enuff too, with all that riff-raff over there..........

 

[Olmy]

Denno, those BrissieLions nuts are crazy.

You're quite right about the stats. The club is in regular consultation with the AFL, and is certainly pushing the preferred view that the Brisbane Lions stats start from 1997 (bar a few exceptions, those being the number of games played by players who played for either Fitzroy or the Bears before 1997, eg: A.Lynch, M.Ashcroft, C.Johnson, D.White and M.Pike etc.).

The club, in all its publications uses this method of statistical recording. Surely, it is the most sensible and accurate method to use. IMO, this is the way it should be viewed by the AFL and those bloody media outlets (bastards).

The strange thing is, that the AFL, for the first two years post-merger, actually agreed with what the Brisbane Lions were doing, but decided to change! Unbelievable!

I'm glad the club has not given in to the pressure of the AFL and media outlets. Hopefully their continued efforts to persuade these groups will eventually pay off.

It would be nice to have the Fitzroy stats recognised at AFL level on a regular (weekly) basis, however, in doing so, it may become complicated when also including the stats of the Bears (which is only fair, you must have both).

From 1997 onwards, I say (bar the exceptions I mentioned earlier)! Also, continual referencing to Fitzroy and Bears stats as well - just for posterity's sake!!!

 

[OldLion]

Bear facts.

There are only two stats. that will live on from that era

1. Michael Voss won the Brownlow - he will ALWAYS have BEARS in brackets after his name. Anyone thought of changing THAT to Lions ?

2. Highest score AGAINST in history. Not a nice stat.

Oh... and maybe a couple of spoons.

 

[killer]

A suggestion for when every thing is resolved.....
How about a reconciliation match old Roys v old Bears
(on Brunny oval)

 

[Fat Pizza]

Originally posted by killer

How about a reconciliation match old Roys v old Bears

A chance for Mork to extract revenge on Roger Merrett.

 

[killer]

okay okay...I just wanna see warwick capper
buried face first in the goal square.

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by muckraker
Wangaratta 1996

Ahh ok muckraker ... I'm a Wimmera boy, meself.

 

[muckraker]

Denno,
Thanks for your reply and for your interest.
I can't understand the argument though, that wearing a Fitzroy jumper in Melbourne would be "divisive". Most AFL clubs have "away" jumpers and I reckon the Lions would benefit tremendously if they wore a Fitzroy jumper in Melbourne. Adelaide and Perth games are negotiable, but I think the Fitzroy jumper would have a greater following in those areas than the Lions.

 

[muckraker]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer


Ahh ok muckraker ... I'm a Wimmera boy, meself.

Has the Wimmera ever won a Country Championship? Ovens & Murray reigns supreme! More AFL draft players came out of the Murray Bushrangers last year than the whole of Western Australia.

 

[Denno]

Originally posted by muckraker
Denno,
Thanks for your reply and for your interest.
I can't understand the argument though, that wearing a Fitzroy jumper in Melbourne would be "divisive". Most AFL clubs have "away" jumpers and I reckon the Lions would benefit tremendously if they wore a Fitzroy jumper in Melbourne. Adelaide and Perth games are negotiable, but I think the Fitzroy jumper would have a greater following in those areas than the Lions.

My point about it is that the BL should be doing everything to foster the new (5 years?) entity, and create their own history. The only way of doing this is creating their own identity. Sure, Fitzroy jumper in Melb would look good for their supporters, but it may just also alienate Bris (Bears) supporters as well. It would be a double edged sword. I for one would not like to see Bears jumpers in Bris. - or anywhere else for that matter. Forgive me if I am wrong - but do teams actually have home/away jumpers? Or are they simply "alternate" jumpers, when color clashes eventuate? Rather that living in the past (jumper wise), it should simply be time to move on, and foster support of the B.L. as they are represented.

 

[Mobbs]

I dunno about the Wimmera FL, I come from the Wimmera area, my local league was the Lexton FL, a minor league (now merged) who just tended to play Western Plains FL once a year.

Wimmera area has a few big names come from it, but not a hell of a lot. Leigh Funke and Stuart Cameron for instance .... oh, and Tim Notting.

 

[Olmy]

I have to agree with Denno on this one.

As much as I'd love to see the FFC jumper still running around in the AFL, I just can't see it happening. I don't really think it would be a great move for the Brisbane Lions to make either.

Personally, having the FFC (in the form of "BB-FFC") on the jumper is fine enough for me, as I also like the current design of the Lions jumper (I don't really support the idea of having "home" and "away" jumpers or alternative strips).

The thing that has to be accepted about the Brisbane Lions, is that it's a shared club. Decisions have to be made on a balanced basis, in that the club can't be seen to favour one group more than the other (in terms of Fitzroy/Bears). (This might sound silly to those of whom, think that the Bears side of the equation got the better deal in the merger - and I'm not saying I disagree with you, either!).

With this in mind, the club's reasoning behind not having an FFC is that supporters who do not relate to that particular jumper, will be offended by its use if it were to be on a regular basis.

It sounds silly to us, but on the other hand, I wouldn't like to see the Lions wearing a Bears jumper every time I turned on the TV to watch a Gabba game.

And I think that's fair enough!

I guess there is no disputing now though, that the Brisbane Lions jumper is a serious attempt at combining facets of the two previous jumpers (Fitzroy and Bears). The colours, the logo, as well as the BB-FFC. I think that's pretty much what the club is aiming for too. Unfortunately for those who disagree, it's just where the club seems to stand on this issue (perhaps it might have been different for them, if they'd used a Fitzroy jumper in Melbourne since the first post-merger year, who knows?).

With that said though, I wouldn't mind seeing the FFC or Bears jumpers used as one-off's to commemorate special occasions. I also think this is a realistic option, as is having a sort of commemorative trophy-match against a Melbourne rival, in Melbourne, each season (for instance, the "Quinlan-Hardie Trophy" could be contested between the B.Lions and W.Bulldogs. There you have a Fitzroy, Footscray, AND a Bears player recognised in the event!).

But for those who are interested in the Brisbane Lions, don't let the fact that they don't wear the old FFC jumper turn you off! There are many other things that, as a Roys supporters, I can relate to within the club. But then again, everybody's different, and I can understand the reasoning behing people's decisions.

Apart from that, I'm really happy to see that the Reds are using the Roys jumper, and hopefully, in the future, we might have a chance to see a VFL side compete in one under the Fitzroy name!

CARN THE ROYS!!!

 

[muckraker]

Olmy, I understand what you're saying, but I think a lot more has to be done to win the majority of Fitzroy people over to the Lions as passionate supporters rather than fairweather friends. Wearing the Roys jumper would be a significant gesture. The comments in this discussion about maybe wearing a Bears jumper at the Gabba are irrelevant. The Bears never had tradition or a big following. My guess is that most Brisbane-based supporters wouldn't even notice if a Fitzroy guernsey was worn at Melbourne games. I'd accept the one-off gesture as a starting point, say perhaps against Collingwood or Carlton. But as Fitzroy people I think we should be haggling for its permanent use in Melbourne.