Boxing The General Boxing Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Combat Sports - UFC, MMA, Boxing, and More' started by cannons, Feb 21, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    I think we are in need of a general boxing discussion thread, mainly due to the facts that a) there are many great fights and things going on within the world of boxing that aren't deserving of their own threads and b) if threads were to be made on some of those topics, they would likely generate no more than a handful of responses.

    As such, this is it :thumbsu:

    Where to start?

    Well, after yesterday's performance, I think Nonito Donaire is a great place to start. He is one of the best out there at the moment, and I would probably rank him #3 P4P right now, behind Pacquiao and Martinez. That might be a little bit controversial, but I place him ahead of Floyd simply due to the fact that Floyd is largely inactive at the moment. Moreover, after seeing him completely demolish a great fighter in Montiel on Sunday afternoon, it's hard not to place him somewhere close to the top of the tree.

    I'm not sure who he will move on to next, we'll have to wait and see, but he appears to be destined for greatness as we speak.
     

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  2. Bodicifer

    Bodicifer Norm Smith Medallist

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    More importantly, when does Mrs Mundine fight again?
     
  3. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    I would say Mundine is far less important than Donaire, but irrespective of that, he is having a rematch against Garth Wood in April.
     
  4. bman

    bman Debutant

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    I watched the replay of noninto v montiel last nite and damn that boy has a mean left hook, how the ref gave him an 8 count is beyond me.
     
  5. anchor man

    anchor man Club Legend

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    Didn't see the fight,but have Donaire previously he sure does look the goods.
    He look supremeley confident in his own ability and is cool as a cucumber.
     
  6. blblues

    blblues Team Captain

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    Donaire has all the tools to be one of the greats. Hope he continues challenging himself with tough opponents. Darchinyan is fooling himself if he thinks a rematch would go any other way then their first fight.
     
  7. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    Yeah, Donaire could definitely be an all-time great, one of the more talented fighters I've seen. You're right about Vic too, as good as he is, I really don't see him making it past round 4 against Nonito if a rematch takes place.

    Coincidentally, Donaire did move up to thid in the P4P rankings as I suggested, but Martinez moved down to fourth and Floyd retained second spot. There was some talk that Floyd might make a return to boxing with a bout in South Africa, but who really knows what's going on with that guy at the moment.

    Saul Alvarez v. Matt Hatton is on today, so I might watch that one. I expect Alvarez to win, but it will be interesting to see how he looks defensively, as I think that's the major area he needs to improve in before he can take on the best.
     
  8. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    Watched both the Judah and Alvarez fights today.

    Judah managed to beat his man via a massive shot in round 7 (I think), but until that point he was pretty underwhelming and was even rocked by Mabuza. The best part about it was Mike Tyson's reaction in the crowd after Judah's shot, absolutely hilarious.

    As for Canelo v. Hatton, it was a great fight and made for really entertaining viewing. Alvarez was dominant from start to end, but you have to give credit to Hatton for hanging in there, as he took a lot of punishment. As I thought, Alvarez is definitely an offensive juggernaut, but the defensive side of his game is pretty average. He just walks forward and shows little to no head movement, a guy like Pacquiao would have a field day against him. The kid is only 20, though, so plenty of time to improve, and is without doubt one of the more talented fighters going around at the moment.

    All in all, a good day of viewing :thumbsu:

    EDIT: Judah's KO here:

    [youtube]JWtsN34dNa0[/youtube]

    Look at Tyson in the crowd from about 1:08 onwards, went absolutely nuts :D
     
  9. Power King

    Power King Brownlow Medallist

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    Still clinging to what little hope is left of a Mayweather Pacquiao fight, but it will never happen without Mayweather having fought someone else first. Pacquiao has Mosley lined up, but who does Mayweather have lined up? Obviously no one, but who would be likely? I'd like to see him fight Cotto from a neutral point of view (I realise he has another match set up) but I don't think Mayweather would take that fight.

    What are the main fights that are set up already this year between 130-154 lbs?
     
  10. Power King

    Power King Brownlow Medallist

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    It's not the boxing purist's number one match-up, but I'm still excited because it's pacquiao and mosley (even though hes past it):

    [​IMG]
     
  11. blblues

    blblues Team Captain

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    Cotto beat Mayorga after Mayorga quit in the 12th round today, although it sounded like Mayorga made it competitive for most of the fight.

    Lenny Zappavigna lost a unanimous decision fight to Miguel Vazquez for the IBF lightweight belt. Sounds like Zappa was just outclassed by Vazquez.

    Sergio Martinez stopped Sergiy Dzinziruk in the 8th round. Martinez has had some quality wins over top quality opponents lately. Martinez called out Pacquiao and Mayweather after the fight but one would think that middleweight would be slightly to big for both fighters. Would love to see Martinez move up to super middle and fight one of Andre Ward or Carl Froch.
     

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  12. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    I watched the Cotto-Mayorga fight, was actually very entertaining. Although he was technically terrible, you have to give credit to Mayorga, as he landed a lot of clean shots and never stopped trying. As for Cotto, he was very sound in terms of technique and always looked likely to win the fight, he was just the superior athlete. He normally makes for interesting fights, though, as he's never quite 100% secure in what he's doing and takes quite a few shots, so you can never be totally sure of the outcome with him.

    The stoppage occurred late mainly thanks to a massive left hook from Cotto, but also because Mayorga somehow hurt his hand in the 12th as well.

    I saw a bit of Zappa's fight too, and the word 'outclassed' is definitely accurate.

    On Martinez, the guy is a star, but calling out Manny and Floyd is ridiculous, as both are too small for him, and Floyd has had his hearing postponed yet again, so he probably won't be back in action for a while anyway.

    It would be good to see Sergio fight one of the guys you mentioned, but I'm pretty sure he said in the past that he feels he's too small for that division (kind of strange that he said that and went on to call out Pac/Floyd). As such, I don't think we'll see him up against one of them unfortunately.
     
  13. Power King

    Power King Brownlow Medallist

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    ^Mayweather's next fight won't be Pacquiao. If he's to fight Pacquiao, he's gotta get a win under his belt first. In all likeliness, who do you think Mayweather's next fight will be against?
     
  14. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    You're right, he won't fight Pac next as he'll want a tune-up fight. I find this really irritating personally, given that Marquez was meant to be Floyd's tune-up fight for Manny, but that's just my opinion.

    Anyway, it's really hard to say who he'll fight next, but if I had to guess, I think someone like Andre Berto could come into consideration (assuming he wins his next fight). Others could be Josh Clottey and Tim Bradley, but yeah, it's really difficult to know what Floyd's next move will be.

    Maybe he could even take on Cotto?
     
  15. blblues

    blblues Team Captain

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    Berto deserves a big name fight but I can't see Floyd giving him the opportunity. Berto is a strong welterweight with good hand speed and poses a threat to any of the big name welterweights. Tim Bradley would be an interesting fight for floyd but he isnt a welterweight and I wouldn't say he has great power to worry Floyd.

    Would personally love to see Mayweather vs Khan. In my opinion Khan has the fastest hands in boxing and it would be one exciting fight. Khan has proven that his chin isn't as suspect as some thought in his last fight versus Maidana. Khan may not quite be ready for Floyd though.

    I would like to see Cotto rematch Margarito. The rematch needs to happen after the possibility that Margarito was wearing loaded wraps the first time. Both these guys are tough warriors that don't take a step backwards.
     
  16. Power King

    Power King Brownlow Medallist

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    I can't see Mayweather taking on Berto or Cotto as he would feel as though they are worth more than tune-ups. I think Mayweather's style is suited to and superior to Clottey's so that one wouldn't surprise.

    and yes, I would pay to watch Cotto vs Margarito.
     
  17. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    I don't know why it is, but I don't rate Berto that highly, and because of that, I think Floyd would deal with him pretty easily. You're probably right, though, Floyd isn't often one for taking risks, so I think that could rule Berto out.

    The fact that Bradley isn't a true welterweight makes the fight more likely to happen in my opinion, as Floyd loves to take on fighters from the lower weight classes, with the Marquez fight being a good example of this. This perhaps makes the Khan option more viable as well, and even though I think Floyd would pick Khan apart due to his superior technique, I doubt he would want to put himself up against a very talented kid who arguably has better handspeed than he does. I would love to see this fight take place, though, would be fascinating to watch. On Khan's chin, I think it's okay, and I definitely don't think Floyd would pose too many problems for Amir in that regard, as he isn't an overly powerful guy.

    As for Cotto v. Margarito, it would be interesting, most definitely. I can see Arum coming up with 'unfinished business' or something of that nature as the promotional tagline.

    Yeah, Clottey would definitely be the safe option, and the way Floyd has been selecting his fights recently, and throughout his entire career really, you would have to think that the safe option would be his first option.
     
  18. Mr Gor

    Mr Gor Club Legend

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    Not on bigfooty as much anymore otherwise I'd be following this thread a lot more closely.

    Whenever I think about Floyd's possible opponents I try and think about what guys actually deserve that kind of pay day, and for me, Clottey doesn't deserve it. We saw in the Pacquaio fight that he was only really there for the money and was more worried about protecting his "never been ko'd" record that his winning one.

    I'd rather see Cotto or Margarito get in there with Floyd, although Margarito probably doesn't deserve another massive paycheck either. **** it, give it to Katsidis!!
     
  19. Power King

    Power King Brownlow Medallist

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    I think the fight that Margarito would serve up to Mayweather exceeds his lack of warranting such a pay cheque. Mayweather would never fight him under any circumstances though.
     
  20. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    Yeah, although Margarito v. Floyd would be quite interesting to watch, Floyd has ducked him in the past, and I suspect he would still do the same now as well.

    As for Katsidis, well, it's a nice idea, and he might be able to cause Floyd some issues with his high pressure, but I think he would get hit far too much due to his lack of head movement, and because of that, I'd actually say he's one of the few fighters who Floyd could KO.

    On a side note, is it just me that doesn't see the greatness in Floyd's pro record?

    I mean, for a guy who refers to himself as the greatest of all time, his record doesn't even come close to backing that claim. Manny's is far superior in every sense, aside from the fact he's lost the odd fight, but I guess when you start as young as he did and you actually put yourself in against some genuine stars at their peak, then that's going to happen. His achievements and his wins make Floyd's look pretty ordinary in comparison, at least in my opinion.
     
  21. Mr Gor

    Mr Gor Club Legend

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    For me Katsidis' defensive problem is his guard. It looks less effective than his head movement! I think ages ago I said he should employ a cross block in the style of Joe Frazier, or for a more modern example, Jesus Chavez (I actually think he was using it in his fight vs Katsidis). At the moment it seems his guard is way too easy to split, especially with uppercuts (although that could tie into his head movement).

    Either way, Floyd would pick him apart and stop him like you said, but it'd be nice to see him get that pay day and experience against Floyd.

    For mine, Pacquiao's early KO losses don't help his cause when comparing the two (well, at least their early stages), but I'd like to read your analysis of their records post-win building.
     
  22. Power King

    Power King Brownlow Medallist

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    For me, two of Manny's losses don't mean that much. Ok so he lost when he was 16 or 17 to some no-namer of the same age by means of one lucky punch, and then lost as a 20 year old to a Thai of the same age in a surprising performance. His only significant loss in my opinion came to Morales (quality fighter), and even then he did an Ali (vs Frazier) and won a best of three bout series. The rest of his record is legendary and you cannot expect him to do any more. He's fought anybody and everybody and hasn't backed down.
     
  23. cannons

    cannons Premiership Player

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    Yeah, sometimes Katsidis just seems to come forward wildly with his hands out to the side, so in some ways, it's questionable as to whether he even uses a defensive guard in those moments. Even so, it would be great to see him get a payday against Floyd, as he's the kind of fighter everyone respects.

    As for analysis of records, well, I'll start with Floyd and do Manny later, but Power king's comments are a pretty good summary for Pac.

    On Floyd, well, the problem I have is that I see no amazing wins on that record. Aside from maybe De La Hoya, who was largely inactive and 34 when he fought Floyd, I don't see anywhere on his record where he has beaten a genuine star in his prime.

    I mean, he's beaten a lot of solid to very good fighters in Baldomir, Judah, Corrales, Hatton and Castillo, but whenever those guys have taken the step up to fight a star, they have invariably lost. As such, I don't consider any of them to be stars. Now, you've also got guys like Marquez, who admittedly troubled Pac, and Shane Mosley, who was undoubtedly a star in his prime. The problem is that Floyd fought neither whilst in their prime, and in the case of Marquez, he made him come up about two divisions higher than he's comfortable with whilst, of course, failing to make weight himself.

    Moreover, let's not forget that his first fight against Castillo involved a very dubious decision to see him take the win. If not for that, Floyd would have a loss on his record and it would make it very difficult to mount a case for him as being on of the greats, considering the opposition that he has faced. Further to that, the fights that he has in common with Pac that took place at similar times illustrate that Manny made it look easier than Floyd did. Floyd struggled with De La Hoya after saying he would massacre him, whilst Pac actually did masscare him. Floyd had issues with Hatton for the first 5 or so rounds, Manny had finished the fight within two rounds.

    He's also ducked the greatest fighter of this generation, as well as many others who may have posed a threat, such as a prime Mosley, Margarito and Cotto.

    With all of this in mind, I just don't see how he can claim he's the greatest of all time. His record is a very good one, but it lacks wins against prime superstars, and for that reason, I just don't see the greatness in his record. If, and it's a very big if, he agrees to fight and subsequently wins against Manny, then perhaps you can start to mount a case for him to be considered an all-time great, but at this point, I just don't see it.

    Yeah, I agree with what you're saying, and when you consider that one of his early losses by KO was the result of a definite low-blow, I think it's clear that his record is better than that of Mayweather.

    Here's the low-blow KO, by the way, can't believe the ref missed it.

    [youtube]-nc4SPltHhE[/youtube]
     
  24. Mr Gor

    Mr Gor Club Legend

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    ^^ why did he look so dazed??? I mean, apart from the low blow. I can't see anything hit his head??
     
  25. Coledinho

    Coledinho Brownlow Medallist

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    Another sad chapter in the history of heavyweight boxing today. Klitschko beat Solin in a very "Paul Briggs" type fight. Got a tap to the head, rolled his ankle and the fight was over. Crowd was in uproar. A disgrace of a fight really