Religion The God Question - part 2

[M Malice]

Are we? if you see a homeless person, would you buy him a warm meal and a hotel room if you can afford it? maybe you will, but how many others will? we can very well end poverty if we want to, but our world is too small, it only concerns our friends and family.

I have encountered a few people on the street and inquired if they needed a hand etc. The answer has been no. I probably wouldn't offer them a hotel room, warm meal mmm maybe. I assume a lot of people give to reputable charities, quite a deal of money seems to be raised when causes are out there eg. the big freeze, breast cancer etc.

I always think of this hilarious stand up routine from Steve Hughes re the homeless. I've been to see him live and Steve is terrific, he makes great social commentary.


Sorry for the tangent, couldn't resist.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Faith, hope, charity & benevolence would be other core values that comprise the Christian ethos....Though the figure of Christ himself as the redeemer & a metaphorical exemplar for all of mankind is central in how to go about living one's life & in being civil to one another....So it's that emphasis on the humanising components that comprises the Christian legacy upon the West.

Ted Haggard was a good Christian and he was caught in a room with loads of meth being ****ed another man.
Is that the Christian legacy of which you speak?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Nietzsche warned against replacing transcendent value structures afforded by religion with secular ones, predicting it would result in catastrophe with many lives lost. Many point to the 20th century as an example of that happening.

Such as?

 

[Total Power]

I have encountered a few people on the street and inquired if they needed a hand etc. The answer has been no. I probably wouldn't offer them a hotel room, warm meal mmm maybe. I assume a lot of people give to reputable charities, quite a deal of money seems to be raised when causes are out there eg. the big freeze, breast cancer etc.

It was just hypothetical, what i wanted to say is unconditional help is rare. We can help with 10 dollars to the charity, cause that makes it someone else's problem. I am in India at present, and i decided to go to Kerala and help out the flood victims myself. Charities are scamming thieves. There is no pointing giving them money as less than 50 cents to a dollar will make it to the end. This is why doctors without borders are awesome, they could earn millions but chose to serve people over money.

Billions raised for Africa, do you think the Africans see any of it? if they do, why is Africa so poor? it goes to fill the pockets of the rich/government, it rarely makes it to the people in need.I figured it out when i donated to the Red Cross only to find out they only pass 33 percent on. This is ****.

 

[M Malice]

It was just hypothetical, what i wanted to say is unconditional help is rare. We can help with 10 dollars to the charity, cause that makes it someone else's problem. I am in India at present, and i decided to go to Kerala and help out the flood victims myself. Charities are scamming thieves. There is no pointing giving them money as less than 50 cents to a dollar will make it to the end. This is why doctors without borders are awesome, they could earn millions but chose to serve people over money.

Billions raised for Africa, do you think the Africans see any of it? if they do, why is Africa so poor? it goes to fill the pockets of the rich/government, it rarely makes it to the people in need.I figured it out when i donated to the Red Cross only to find out they only pass 33 percent on. This is ****.

Great post TP, 100% agree. Did you watch the Steve Hughes video, he says exactly what you are saying except in comedic form.

Kudos to you for helping out mate, you're a better man than I.

 

[ShanDog]

Such as?

Arguably many of the large-scale wars or loss of life through secular communist regimes that occurred. If those events can be attributed to changing the fundamental value structures of the society, that's the sort of thing he was talking about.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Arguably many of the large-scale wars or loss of life through secular communist regimes that occurred. If those events can be attributed to changing the fundamental value structures of the society, that's the sort of thing he was talking about.

Arguably?
Lol
Non belief never took one life in the history of humanity,belief on the other hand?
100’s of millions,billions?
If you’d like to do some accounting,I’m all ears!

 

[ShanDog]

Arguably?
Lol
Non belief never took one life in the history of humanity,belief on the other hand?
100’s of millions,billions?
If you’d like to do some accounting,I’m all ears!

You're not all ears though. You're one of the most hard-headed on this forum - I'm talking about value structures and all you can see is "atheism". I'm not interested.

 

[chelseacarlton]

You're not all ears though. You're one of the most hard-headed on this forum - I'm talking about value structures and all you can see is "atheism". I'm not interested.

Lol. No
I mentioned non belief.
You were trying to loosely or rather callously attempting to include communism,nazism,fascism etc of the 20 century in to the secular.
None of the regimes of the 20th century that killed millions had not one secular democratic ideal amongst them.
That were all more in tune with religious dogma than the scientific,rational and logical ideals we should be aiming for,unfortunately in the 21st century is a return to these earlier 20th century rulers that caused so much death war and destruction of humanity and place!
What value structures are “you” alluding to?
Christian values?

 

[ShanDog]

Lol. No
I mentioned non belief.
You were trying to loosely or rather callously attempting to include communism,nazism,fascism etc of the 20 century in to the secular.
None of the regimes of the 20th century that killed millions had not one secular democratic ideal amongst them.
That were all more in tune with religious dogma than the scientific,rational and logical ideals we should be aiming for,unfortunately in the 21st century is a return to these earlier 20th century rulers that caused so much death war and destruction of humanity and place!
What value structures are “you” alluding to?
Christian values?

Yeah, I'm not engaging with someone who wants to "lol" at the things I am saying.

There is plenty of work on this very topic out there which you can look up yourself. I'm not getting into it with you.

 

[footyfan1978]

Was at the first half of Carlton game on weekend. No God would allow me to see such putrid football before my eyes. Therefore there is none.

 

[Total Power]

Lol. No
I mentioned non belief.
You were trying to loosely or rather callously attempting to include communism,nazism,fascism etc of the 20 century in to the secular.
None of the regimes of the 20th century that killed millions had not one secular democratic ideal amongst them.
That were all more in tune with religious dogma than the scientific,rational and logical ideals we should be aiming for,unfortunately in the 21st century is a return to these earlier 20th century rulers that caused so much death war and destruction of humanity and place!
What value structures are “you” alluding to?
Christian values?

Atheism means an absence of belief (in a god). An atheist can be communist, capitalist, cultist, scientologist etc etc. ShanDog is spot on. All atheists are secularists as well is it? Plenty of leaders (who were religious) also pushed for secularism (like Ataturk). You have no idea what you are on about and this is why engaging with you is fruitless.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

The foundation of western civilisation in all its glory.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The foundation of western civilisation in all its glory.

Have you got one with Scott Morrison in it?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Have you got one with Scott Morrison in it?

I'm sure one exists somewhere.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'm sure one exists somewhere.

Shorten should have all his lackeys looking into that, surely.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Yeah, I'm not engaging with someone who wants to "lol" at the things I am saying.

There is plenty of work on this very topic out there which you can look up yourself. I'm not getting into it with you.

Why don’t you just say what “you” mean and not pussyfoot around it Shan?
How about that?
You strolled in here and dropped a bomb and now you’re claiming victim hood,how very religious of you,are these the values to which you were claiming have been tossed into the garbage we should reclaim?
Why are the values of which you speak?
I am interested!

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Shorten should have all his lackeys looking into that, surely.

Shorten has enough skeletons of his own to worry about.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Atheism means an absence of belief (in a god). An atheist can be communist, capitalist, cultist, scientologist etc etc. ShanDog is spot on. All atheists are secularists as well is it? Plenty of leaders (who were religious) also pushed for secularism (like Ataturk). You have no idea what you are on about and this is why engaging with you is fruitless.

No no no
He was implying secularism caused all the ills of the 20th century because Christian values had been tossed aside!
The first two world wars were entirely fought on religious grounds!
Atuturk was a champion,now we Erdogan!

 

[BEaston]

Arguably many of the large-scale wars or loss of life through secular communist regimes that occurred. If those events can be attributed to changing the fundamental value structures of the society, that's the sort of thing he was talking about.

A conflation of politics and belief in a more disgusting manner I don't think I've seen.

 

[ShanDog]

A conflation of politics and belief in a more disgusting manner I don't think I've seen.

I thought everything is political

 

[chelseacarlton]

I thought everything is political

Theocracy?

 

[ShanDog]

Theocracy?

Is there politics within the church?

(Does the Pope shit in the woods?)

 

[chelseacarlton]

Is there politics within the church?

(Does the Pope shit in the woods?)

I don’t know,I’m sure there’s been rituals in the past that the papacy indulged in that included the woods.
You still haven’t answered my prior question though,about which values we’ve lost that may have caused the secular atrocities of the 20th century?

 

[ShanDog]

I don’t know,I’m sure there’s been rituals in the past that the papacy indulged in that included the woods.
You still haven’t answered my prior question though,about which values we’ve lost that may have caused the secular atrocities of the 20th century?

I know. I told you - feel free to look it up because I wasn't going to get into it with you. Also - it's not MY idea.