Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

Remove this Banner Ad

I think the media problems might be as simple as regulating what you can call "news" whether it's "Newspapers" or "Fox News".

When I had Foxtel, you could put it on "Fox News" and you wouldn't have one iota of actual facts be presented over hours.

"Sky News" as well is 90% opinion and very little in the way of "facts".

Presenting opinions as "News" is false advertising, so perhaps there are already the laws in place. I think Fox News got banned from somewhere for this exact reason (EU or UK).

Any organisation which says it does "News" and promotes (even opinion pieces) disinformation or outright lies should have their ability to call themselves "News" taken from them.

(This also applies to the Drum on ABC which shouldn't be on ABC News channel.
 
The worst media organisations are those which pretend to not merely be impartial, but 'unbiased'. No one and no organisation is unbiased. Everyone has an agenda. I would much rather take my information from media sources which are open about declaring their biases. This was, in fact, precisely how newspapers functioned for many years.

The great thing about the internet age is that we are seeing a return to this style from the new media - and why shouldn't we? If you believe that your worldview is right, then you should put that argument forward and let people who disagree do so through their own publications.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Oh, and as things stand right now Trump is set for victory, which should clue you in as to the total disaster that allegedly unbiased media organisations - who have spent the past four years trying to get rid of him and convincing themselves that there's no way he could win again - are.

Loonerty said:
In a week of shocking revelations, the above is certainly not one.
Click to expand...

Love you too.
 
The Speaker said:
Oh, and as things stand right now Trump is set for victory, which should clue you in as to the total disaster that allegedly unbiased media organisations - who have spent the past four years trying to get rid of him and convincing themselves that there's no way he could win again - are.



Love you too.
Click to expand...

Quoting for posterity.
 
The Speaker said:
Oh, and as things stand right now Trump is set for victory, which should clue you in as to the total disaster that allegedly unbiased media organisations - who have spent the past four years trying to get rid of him and convincing themselves that there's no way he could win again - are.



Love you too.
Click to expand...
Ugh. Damn it.

I use real clear politics as a guide which collates the media polls, this is their current map:
#4.png

Where are they getting it wrong, from your view?
 
Gerrymandering I would say.
 
boncer34 said:
ABC leans left atm, but was more right in the Rudd/Gillard years.

I've made the observation to Doss before that ABC seems to swing opposite to whoever is in power. They seem so concerned with appearing biased to the people that ultimately sign their cheques that they over correct.
Click to expand...

This is nothing new and has been happening for as long as I can remember. There are always more opportunities for analysis and inevitable criticism of the party that is in power and making decisions. The same happens at state level too. Easily measured by the proportion of stories.
 
boncer34 said:
Even Trump doesn't believe he's about to win.
Click to expand...
don't think he did last time either tbf.

I am glad to see more talk of voter suppression and what not this time. the Democrats wasted years droning on about the stupid Russia **** when they could have actually done something useful like talking about Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law and how voter-ID laws as a whole are pretty blatant attempts to suppress the votes of people you don't think will vote for you. (which, to be clear, is fair game, so you gotta talk about it so you can get the people behind you and make it not fair game!)
 
eth-dog said:
Ugh. Damn it.

I use real clear politics as a guide which collates the media polls, this is their current map:
View attachment 984567

Where are they getting it wrong, from your view?
Click to expand...

Where aren't they?

The narrative is a carbon copy of last time, and the polls have been getting worse (on a state level) every year, because polling is harder and harder and most pollsters simply don't put the time in to get a representative sample. That means that state polling as a whole is flawed, as was demonstrated not only by the 2016 election (which RCP had to edit after the fact to appear less embarrassing!), but also by the 2018 mid-terms, where the Senate polling was completely off the mark and they over-estimated the House result as well.

If Joe Biden was really up by 10, 12, etc. as he is in the polls, he wouldn't be out on the road in Ohio and Pennsylvania every day. He would be back home, online based, doing what he was doing months ago, making public appearances as rarely as possible.
 
Phone said:
don't think he did last time either tbf.

I am glad to see more talk of voter suppression and what not this time. the Democrats wasted years droning on about the stupid Russia **** when they could have actually done something useful like talking about Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law and how voter-ID laws as a whole are pretty blatant attempts to suppress the votes of people you don't think will vote for you. (which, to be clear, is fair game, so you gotta talk about it so you can get the people behind you and make it not fair game!)
Click to expand...

The logistics of American elections are a joke compared to our excellent AEC (and state commissions), but I'm not convinced that even were such a change to be made that that would push sleepy Joe into the presidency. Democratic leadership is pretty clueless, and still doesn't seem to have accepted that 2016 happened and is a pretty good chance of happening again.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

eth-dog said:
Ugh. Damn it.

I use real clear politics as a guide which collates the media polls, this is their current map:
View attachment 984567

Where are they getting it wrong, from your view?
Click to expand...

Texas, Georgia and Florida aren't Toss-ups. Polling doesn't include the impact of active voter suppression going on in those states all with Rep Governors and courts. Anything near a line-ball in those states will be declared Republican, that's if they're even line-ball, which I doubt, given the voter suppression will be so strong, blocking mail-in ballots, reducing polling places while Dems know what COVID is and Reps think it's a lie.

I think that means it's line-ball and there's one team playing by the rules and another making them up as they go. Dems always over-estimate their likelihood to vote, that's another reason why these polls often don't match outcomes.

If scores are level at 3/4 time and one team has the umpires attend their huddle, I know which team I'd be backing.

For the record, the rust-belt states Iowa, WIsconsin, Michigan and Ohio will all go Republican, I think some more violent protests will be provoked and people will get scared and either not vote or vote conservative. Don't forget Nixon was winning landslides while violently repressing the Civil Rights movement. We talk about that as a turning point, but in reality, the majority were voting for the violent suppression. Whitey gets scared, they vote to violently suppress.
 
11 hours to wait in the queue just to vote.

Democracy!
 
Saint said:
I think the media problems might be as simple as regulating what you can call "news" whether it's "Newspapers" or "Fox News".

When I had Foxtel, you could put it on "Fox News" and you wouldn't have one iota of actual facts be presented over hours.

"Sky News" as well is 90% opinion and very little in the way of "facts".

Presenting opinions as "News" is false advertising, so perhaps there are already the laws in place. I think Fox News got banned from somewhere for this exact reason (EU or UK).

Any organisation which says it does "News" and promotes (even opinion pieces) disinformation or outright lies should have their ability to call themselves "News" taken from them.

(This also applies to the Drum on ABC which shouldn't be on ABC News channel.
Click to expand...
Fox News in the US does not hold a news licence - it holds an entertainment licence.

Since Covid I've diversified my news sources.All mainstream US news seems to be largely opinion. The SBS news and its syndicated programs are all better than main stream Aus or US news services: Al Jazeera, Japan news, Berlin, France and Korea are all good.
 
For those people interested in the US November election, have a look at my nephew's website. "Using county-level results from the 2012 and 2016 presidential elections, Polivision is a sophisticated electoral college map tool that elevates the way you can predict and project outcomes for this November."

www.thepolivision.com

Polivision

Build a path to 270 electoral votes using swings and turnout projections on Polivision.
www.thepolivision.com
 
boncer34 said:
www.snopes.com

Did Fox News Change Its Accreditation from 'News' to 'Entertainment'?

There's a lot to unfold in this meme, including the fact that Fox News (and CNN and MSNBC) are not "accredited news stations" to begin with.
www.snopes.com www.snopes.com
Click to expand...
Agree that the fact check that the meme snopes was checking is wrong - Fox News didn't change it's "accreditation" at the FFC from news to entertainment. As the snopes piece says - the following is not true:

In 2013, an entertainment website published a fictitious article that claimed Fox News had been reclassified as “satire” by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and that the network would start displaying a disclaimer reading: “This is not a valid news source.” While that fictitious article was clearly not genuine news, the general idea that Fox News was not an “accredited news station” has often been repeated.


In January 2019, we were notified about a meme claiming that Fox News changed its accreditation from “news” to “entertainment,” and that it had no legal obligation to report the facts:

A couple of points to back up what I said - which snopes also does not dispute - that Fox News is entertainment and does not hold a news licence :

  • the FCC does not regulate cable networks like CNN and Fox News (so there was no licence to change accreditation on in the snopes fact check scenario)
  • Fox News is a trade mark ie it is the name of the cable channel not a description of the services provided by the channel (tho there's an interesting argument that it's a deceptive TM!);
  • the FCC does not regulate content and its licences (held by free to air networks including Fox) do not specify content - such as news or entertainment (so the Fox network, whioch does hold FFC liocences do not have to regulate content to news or entertainment);
  • Roger Ailes said Fox was created to compete with networks like USA and TNT, not CNN or MSNBC. Fox's Terms of Use say “Company furnishes the Company Sites and the Company Services for your personal enjoyment and entertainment.
  • Fox stopped broadcasting its US channel in the UK in 2017 after the UK regulator found that the Hannity program breached the UK broadcasting rules for news content https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41887613
 
Further to my point about new media above, Fox is not even that popular among Trump supporters, especially those that did not vote for Romney or McCain. A few individuals on there are, but most of them have other main jobs outside of Fox. Those who seem to care the most about Fox are those who think that it's still 2008.
 
sameolds33 said:
Agree that the fact check that the meme snopes was checking is wrong - Fox News didn't change it's "accreditation" at the FFC from news to entertainment. As the snopes piece says - the following is not true:

In 2013, an entertainment website published a fictitious article that claimed Fox News had been reclassified as “satire” by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and that the network would start displaying a disclaimer reading: “This is not a valid news source.” While that fictitious article was clearly not genuine news, the general idea that Fox News was not an “accredited news station” has often been repeated.


In January 2019, we were notified about a meme claiming that Fox News changed its accreditation from “news” to “entertainment,” and that it had no legal obligation to report the facts:

A couple of points to back up what I said - which snopes also does not dispute - that Fox News is entertainment and does not hold a news licence :

  • the FCC does not regulate cable networks like CNN and Fox News (so there was no licence to change accreditation on in the snopes fact check scenario)
  • Fox News is a trade mark ie it is the name of the cable channel not a description of the services provided by the channel (tho there's an interesting argument that it's a deceptive TM!);
  • the FCC does not regulate content and its licences (held by free to air networks including Fox) do not specify content - such as news or entertainment (so the Fox network, whioch does hold FFC liocences do not have to regulate content to news or entertainment);
  • Roger Ailes said Fox was created to compete with networks like USA and TNT, not CNN or MSNBC. Fox's Terms of Use say “Company furnishes the Company Sites and the Company Services for your personal enjoyment and entertainment.
  • Fox stopped broadcasting its US channel in the UK in 2017 after the UK regulator found that the Hannity program breached the UK broadcasting rules for news content https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41887613
Click to expand...
They don't hold a news license in the US because there's no such thing.

I've bolded the part of your post that shows this.
 
boncer34 said:
They don't hold a news license in the US because there's no such thing.

I've bolded the part of your post that shows this.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is what I said. The broadcast networks need to hold licences with the FFC; the cable channels such as CNN and Fox News do not. Even if they did hold an FCC licence - which they do not - the licence would not regulate content (ie news or netertainment). No where in my comment did i say that Fox News held a FCC licence. You are splitting hairs.
 
sameolds33 said:
Yes, that is what I said.
Click to expand...
Why single fox out then? Nobody in the USA holds a news license. Or an entertainment license either.

They hold a broadcast license.

Your post to me made it sound like Fox didn't hold a news license but other organisations did. Apolgies if that wasn't your intention.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top