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Tertiary and Continuing The Law Thread
- Thread starter Chief
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- Jul 23, 2010
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Re: Extra-curriculars, i'm talking about playing local footy/cricket or really anything that shows dedication/commitment.
Here's the angle I'd take if I was you.
Identify a subject that you haven't done, have some degree of interest in and is widely practiced. Put a lot of work in to this subject and then target your applications to firms practicing in this space, outlining how passionate you are about this area of law.
If you are applying for free work experience in the meantime. DO NOT WRITE AN EMAIL. Physically go to the place with your resume and ask. If you can't do that call them and ask.
As for explaining your grades I'd take this approach (whether it's true or not). Say you had to live out of home, had no family/centrelink assistance and had to work to support yourself financially (acknowledge that your grades are bad and do not make it sound like an excuse.) Progressing up the ladder is also a huge bonus here.
This line will also emphasize your commitment as most people would drop out in this scenario. It should work pretty well if you have the skills to sell it. You'd be amazed at the ******s getting good grades who have never worked a real job before in their lives and therefore have no social skills.
- Mar 18, 2011
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I agree with this. The funniest is when the employers look at students from a strong academic background and realise how hard they study but they have no lives outside. Despite some saying you need good grades to succed in the future, the reality is it is only used to land you a job and then it is about you in the workplae much like VCE. When we were doing HR, our lecturer tutor told us of the fact that out of 100 people that applied for the job, the one that got it was the person with a pass average in their course because they were the right bill for this position in a banking role and had a good command of English/personal skills unlike the others and they had a good personal/work history. After 5years in the job, the people employing you never look at what you did at school except for having the required qualifications.
You're right, but in this market getting your first job is not a given. I know a few poor suckers that after their llb and gdlp spent 5 years still doing hospitality/retail jobs that had got them through high school/uni.
- Oct 16, 2007
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I'm in first year Law (in NSW), and right now we're doing the second part of the Torts course in negligence. I'm hoping students in other states have mainly looked at cases on appeal to the High Court when I ask this question.
I'm finding it really hard to connect everything to the bigger picture in terms of duty, breach and damage and how I'll analyse it in the exam (a 2 hour assessment of a scenario and then an essay on the CLA - the Wrongs Act in Victoria).
Any pearls of wisdom from students that have been through Torts?
I'm finding it really hard to connect everything to the bigger picture in terms of duty, breach and damage and how I'll analyse it in the exam (a 2 hour assessment of a scenario and then an essay on the CLA - the Wrongs Act in Victoria).
Any pearls of wisdom from students that have been through Torts?
- Jul 23, 2010
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Agreed, but i think this speaks volumes about the people themselves and why they didn't get jobs if they were willing to stagnate in retail/hospitality for 5 years.
You might not land a law grad position straight out of uni, and fair enough you might spend one year in retail or whatever focusing on free experience/applications in order to land a job the next year. But after that you've got to make something happen elsewhere (whether you keep attempting to make the transition into law after that is another matter). An LLB should have a better job than retail/hospitality 5 years out of uni, even if it isn't in a law related field.
In what sense are you talking about "connect everything in terms of duty, breach and damage" - causation specifically, or how to solve hypothetical scenarios generally? To me, causation and scope of liability really is fairly simple and is set out in the CLA.
The way I was taught, to determine whether there was a causal link between the act breach and the damage, two criteria should be satisfied:
1. Was the defendant's breach a necessary condition for the harm?
2. If so, is the resulting harm within the scope of liability of the tortfeasor?
To determine scope of liability:
1. Has an intervening event broken the chain of causation?
2. Was the defendant's act the legally relevant cause?
3. Do policy considerations require the causal connection be disregarded?
4. In all circumstances should the defendant be liable?
5. Does deciding that a scope of liability exists create unreasonable problems for others in the position of the defendant?
I wouldn't read too much into GPA. I got fairly moderate marks at a pretty average uni, and had eight articles interviews, including at some top tier practices. Once you get to that point, I found they show very little interest in academia; it's much more about personality.
Best non-articles position you could possibly get out of uni is judge's associate. They tend to take people with minimal experience, positions come up all the time, it's a 9-5 job (for most) with no work to take home, gives you unparalled exposure to a variety of court hearings, gives you all sorts of connections and lets you put down a judge as a referee on your CV. It's a brilliant stepping stone.
Best non-articles position you could possibly get out of uni is judge's associate. They tend to take people with minimal experience, positions come up all the time, it's a 9-5 job (for most) with no work to take home, gives you unparalled exposure to a variety of court hearings, gives you all sorts of connections and lets you put down a judge as a referee on your CV. It's a brilliant stepping stone.
- Oct 16, 2007
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Thanks BomberFletch! You've put things into order for me 
Solving scenarios should be okay as long as I get the order in which to do things. Trespass was clearly laid out so I'm probably expecting too much from negligence.
Solving scenarios should be okay as long as I get the order in which to do things. Trespass was clearly laid out so I'm probably expecting too much from negligence.
Anyone know where I can find Ronald Dworkin's Law's Empire 1986 online? and/or have notes on him?
google scholar has parts of it
- Apr 30, 2010
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Starting a winter school subject "Australian Federal Criminal Law" in just under 2 weeks at the University of Adelaide. There are 5 days of 7 hours contact. Two topics per day covered and about 45-50 A4 12 font pages of reading per topic.
The assessment is either 70 or 100% 4000 word research essay.
Have not done a winter school law subject before so curious if anyone here has any strategies for prioritising work?
The last Law subject that did not have an exam that I did (Law of Contract II in 2008) had a 70% research essay which I just did no course reading or tutorial work from weeks 9-12 on and just worked the essay resulting in a Distinction for the subject with me having not learned much from it outside of the topic of Frustration which I based my research essay on.
Wondering if a similar strategy should be employed here?
The assessment is either 70 or 100% 4000 word research essay.
Have not done a winter school law subject before so curious if anyone here has any strategies for prioritising work?
The last Law subject that did not have an exam that I did (Law of Contract II in 2008) had a 70% research essay which I just did no course reading or tutorial work from weeks 9-12 on and just worked the essay resulting in a Distinction for the subject with me having not learned much from it outside of the topic of Frustration which I based my research essay on.
Wondering if a similar strategy should be employed here?
I did a winter unit last year. Although not the same unit, I believe the same strategy should work: First, if you have your reading material, finish all your reading before you start your course. Note down the things you don't quite understand from the readings and fill in the blanks as these things get explained in the lectures.
As for the research essay, is that going to form the entire content of your assessment? You said it's either going to be 70 or 100% so I'm confused: is there an option of doing another assessment? The unit I did had both an exam and a research essay, so some course work is required. Having read all your reading material before the commencement of the course will mean minimal study is required. Once that's out of the way, focus on getting the essay done. It's just a matter of doing what's due first, that will get you marks.
Woah, massive, awful flashbacks. What a ****ing waste of time and money that was. Once they released the essay questions you could practically stop showing up, it was an intellectual blackhole!
- Apr 30, 2010
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"Interim assignment
This is piece of formative assessment intended to provide students with practice in element analysis and an appreciation of the relationship between policy and offence formulation.
The grade awarded in this assessment is redeemable in the final assessment.
Students will be required to undertake one of 6 alternative exercises. Collaborative discussion is encouraged. Joint submissions are acceptable if declared as such"
30% redeemable by the final assignment. 1000 words.
"Final assignment (research assignment)
This assessment provides students with the opportunity to research and discuss issues in the codification of criminal law. Students will be required to submit a research proposal for approval by 5pm: Tuesday 19th July. The assignment may deal with particular policy issues in Australian federal jurisdiction; structural or analytical issues relating to Chapter 2 of the Code; analysis of significant cases or cases on the Criminal Code or relating thereto; comparisons with other criminal codes; history or histories of codification &c. The research assignment may take the form of research essay, extended case-note, submission to a law reform body. The research assignment proposal to be submitted for approval will be in the vicinity of 300-500 words. An optional template will be provided for the research proposal. Students will be assessed, variously, on their understanding of the principles of criminal law codification; ability to match those principles to legislative and policy objectives and critical appreciation of the principles of criminal justice, cogency of argument and persuasiveness of presentation."
70 or 100% if mark higher than the interim assignment. 4000 words not including the proposal to be submitted.
It does not seem to say the interim assignment is only redeemable if attempted guess I will find that out on day one.
Yes copy/paste from the outline may land me in hot water....
- Apr 30, 2010
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Unbelievable that it was a compulsory subject at the time. Felt sorry for a guy who got 59 for the subject and knew more about the week to week tutorials and lectures than the rest of us. He got the knowledge we got the grades.
- Jul 31, 2010
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Hey all, I'm hopefully studying law next semester (just did an internal application-currently in the middle of a business degree) and was wondering if I could get any heads up on what to expect. I've never had an interest in study, that is until i did the business/contract law subject last year. I know it's only a small part of law, but it really interested me and actually enjoyed reading about it for the first time ever. So I decided to work really hard at my marks this semester (one just passed) to get myself in.
If i don't get in this semester then i'll give up (altready tried once, getting on a bit and don't wanna study forever) but assuming i get in, and i am fairly confident, what am i to expect in the first semester of a Bachelor of Laws course?
Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated
If i don't get in this semester then i'll give up (altready tried once, getting on a bit and don't wanna study forever) but assuming i get in, and i am fairly confident, what am i to expect in the first semester of a Bachelor of Laws course?
Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated
Hey all, I'm hopefully studying law next semester (just did an internal application-currently in the middle of a business degree) and was wondering if I could get any heads up on what to expect. I've never had an interest in study, that is until i did the business/contract law subject last year. I know it's only a small part of law, but it really interested me and actually enjoyed reading about it for the first time ever. So I decided to work really hard at my marks this semester (one just passed) to get myself in.
If i don't get in this semester then i'll give up (altready tried once, getting on a bit and don't wanna study forever) but assuming i get in, and i am fairly confident, what am i to expect in the first semester of a Bachelor of Laws course?
Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated
Being packed in a room with a bunch of up themselves w***ers with a phenomenal work ethic and ability to rote learn but lacking critical thinking skills whilst using the socratic method. It's painstakingly awful for a while.
Eventually the knowledge regurgitators drop out and it gets a tad better.
Subject wise assuming you've got some base knowledge of the legal system it should all be a breeze.
- Apr 30, 2010
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I find comfort in knowing I was not the only person who did not like many of the people in the room. Did it annoy you too how the students who would join or try for election on representative bodies were usually the small percentage who did not have to work part time to support themselves through uni giving them the time to take part in those things yet making them not very representative of the student body because of it?
I described the type of **** i hated.
I'm the other type of **** people hate, the silver spooner who had shit given to them whose family had been administering the law of this state since it got colonised*
*yes it's Friday and I just got back from lunch.
What always shat me was the little yuppie ***** who had no ****ing idea how the world outside the boundaries of the University of Adelaide operated.
Don't get me wrong, many of my best friends in the world are people I did Law with, but **** me there is a massive over-representation of ****wits, generally either first generation money or that unseemly combination of cashed up or educated up bogan. I tend to think these ****wits don't disappear as much as they become more moderate as time goes on. Again, I just got back from lunch, i'm probably rabbling like a drunken ****wit who doesn't want to bill on a Friday afternoon.
- Jul 23, 2010
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My most hated law student is the idealist douche. This douche, usually a law/international relations double degree student, remains insulated from economic reality and likes to preach at any given opportunity. This douche often often leverages this (often faux) idealism as a USP come job time and gets a job at Freehills or Blakes. These people make me want to kill myself every time I step foot on campus.
I'm at the other end of the spectrum, the sarcastic, cynical & laconic jerk who never shows up to class.
- Apr 30, 2010
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A subject is being taught at Adelaide over one week midway through semester 2 called Legal Issues in Sport. It is being taught by a lecturer flying over from the Univeristy of Melbourne called Mr Hayden Opie.
Has anyone here been taught by this lecturer and/or done this particular subject?
If so what was it/he like and what was the assessment structure like if you remember? Would greatly appreciate someones feedback.
Has anyone here been taught by this lecturer and/or done this particular subject?
If so what was it/he like and what was the assessment structure like if you remember? Would greatly appreciate someones feedback.
