The Manager Merry-go-Round

[moomba]

For a club with such a great youth set up and the players it produces, you'd think they'd try really, really hard to get some long term stability in their first team set up wouldn't you?

The problem is that can develop all the players they like but they can't match the wages other clubs can offer. Essentially they are developing players for sale, hopefully they get a few years decent service out of them before they go. Problem Southampton have is that under FFP they can't re-invest the proceeds of any sales fully into the squad. So back to sqaure 1 they go.

 

[typeclub]

They can invest what they can afford, nothing stopping them.

No one can say how far they can go. Liverpool showed you don't need to spend the most to be relevant.

 

[moomba]

Liverpool pay the same sort of wages as Arsenal/Man United, and I can see that rising.

And Southampton can't spend what they afford. FFP doesnt assess affordability.

 

[SM]

Liverpool pay the same sort of wages as Arsenal/Man United, and I can see that rising.

And Southampton can't spend what they afford. FFP doesnt assess affordability.

Can't they spend all their revenue, and proceeds from player sales are revenue? Seems odd if they can't.

 

[moomba]

Can't they spend all their revenue, and proceeds from player sales are revenue? Seems odd if they can't.

It's a bit more complicated than that. Players sales (less any unamortised amount) go down as a profit in the year they are sold. Player purchases are spread over the term of the contract.

So sell a youth player for £25m and immediately replace him with a £25m player on a five year contract and the effect of that deal on profit/loss will be - year 1 +£20m, year 2 -£5m, year 3 -£5m, year 4 -£5m, year 5 -£5m.

When we get around to year 4 and 5 of that deal, the initial profit is no longer considered for FFP purchases. So the effect of the deal for the last two years is a nett loss of £10m (remember the limit by then will be around £25m).

But I wasn't thinking so much of player sales when I was talking about affordability. I look at things like Spurs a few years back. They raised £17m in a rights issue, which they invested in the playing squad. They got the likes of Dawson, Reid etc. They could afford it, and in the long run I think it probably was money well spent. But they couldn't do that nowadays without taking the loss on the balance sheet. Or say Southampton had £1bn in the bank. They can afford to buy a few hundred million worth of players, but they wouldn't be able to without facing punishment. Or say Arsenal make a few hundred million selling property. They could afford to invest that profit, but wouldn't be able to.

 

[SM]

It's a bit more complicated than that. Players sales (less any unamortised amount) go down as a profit in the year they are sold. Player purchases are spread over the term of the contract.

So sell a youth player for £25m and immediately replace him with a £25m player on a five year contract and the effect of that deal on profit/loss will be - year 1 +£20m, year 2 -£5m, year 3 -£5m, year 4 -£5m, year 5 -£5m.

When we get around to year 4 and 5 of that deal, the initial profit is no longer considered for FFP purchases. So the effect of the deal for the last two years is a nett loss of £10m (remember the limit by then will be around £25m).

But I wasn't thinking so much of player sales when I was talking about affordability. I look at things like Spurs a few years back. They raised £17m in a rights issue, which they invested in the playing squad. They got the likes of Dawson, Reid etc. They could afford it, and in the long run I think it probably was money well spent. But they couldn't do that nowadays without taking the loss on the balance sheet. Or say Southampton had £1bn in the bank. They can afford to buy a few hundred million worth of players, but they wouldn't be able to without facing punishment. Or say Arsenal make a few hundred million selling property. They could afford to invest that profit, but wouldn't be able to.

Seems odd that a player sale is recorded all in the first year but player purchases are recorded over the life of the contract. If I buy a truck yes it depreciates over the life of the truck, whereas when I sell it I record all the profit that year, but the expense of the actual truck is only recorded the year I buy it. So if I sell a truck for $5,000 and replace it with a $10,000 I make a $5,000 loss that year. If Soton sell a player for 30m and then buy a new one for 20m surely they make a 10m profit that year?

 

[moomba]

The cost of all player purchases are spread over the term of the contract.

 

[SM]

Just seems pretty stupid to me. If you sell them in a window, and buy someone in as the replacement, take the net spend.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

So with Spurs "expecting" to make Top 4 that leaves 6 teams that are expecting Top 4. Plus Everton. Interdasting

 

[SM]

So with Spurs "expecting" to make Top 4 that leaves 6 teams that are expecting Top 4. Plus Everton. Interdasting

Yeah was thinking about that the other day, 7 teams with genuine claims at making the Top 4, going to be a very exciting season. Also think it's going to be even more open at the bottom, if that's possible.

 

[Cruyff14]

Spurs making the top four?

lol, you guys.

 

[BlueBen]

Yeah was thinking about that the other day, 7 teams with genuine claims at making the Top 4, going to be a very exciting season. Also think it's going to be even more open at the bottom, if that's possible.

Seven?

Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham... that's six. Southampton had a pretty good season but I think the top four might be a bit of a stretch with them losing their manager and potentially some key players. Newcastle finished fifth two seasons ago and started this season well but I doubt they have the quality or stability to pull it off.

I suppose there could be a bolter from somewhere but I just can't see who that seventh team could be.

 

[SM]

Seven?

Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham... that's six. Southampton had a pretty good season but I think the top four might be a bit of a stretch with them losing their manager and potentially some key players. Newcastle finished fifth two seasons ago and started this season well but I doubt they have the quality or stability to pull it off.

I suppose there could be a bolter from somewhere but I just can't see who that seventh team could be.

Good troll is good.

10/10

 

[Cruyff14]

Wonder who's gonna take the bait.

 

[SM]

For a second I honestly thought I miscounted.

 

[Cooldude]

Seven?

Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham... that's six. Southampton had a pretty good season but I think the top four might be a bit of a stretch with them losing their manager and potentially some key players. Newcastle finished fifth two seasons ago and started this season well but I doubt they have the quality or stability to pull it off.

I suppose there could be a bolter from somewhere but I just can't see who that seventh team could be.

Bit harsh on Palace, I reckon they're an outside chance, the rest are shit

 

[SM]

Bit harsh on Palace, I reckon they're an outside chance, the rest are shit

Steve Bruce's side aren't too bad. Some have compared them to Liverpool, you know.

 

[Cooldude]

Well they're in Europe at least compare to some of the dross in England that aren't

 

[SM]

Well they're in Europe at least compare to some of the dross in England that aren't

 

[Redalert]

Wonder who's gonna take the bait.

The fact that someone hasn't is somewhat sad. Shows how far Man United have fallen.

 

[SM]

McDermott leaves Leeds by mutual consent. Probably for the best.

 

[Jatz]

Yep. That's better for McDermott than Leeds. No way known I'd want to coach there with that new owner.

 

[SM]

Yep. That's better for McDermott than Leeds. No way known I'd want to coach there with that new owner.

He also did a pretty shit job so good for Leeds too.

 

[Jatz]

He also did a pretty shit job so good for Leeds too.

I don't think anyone would have done a good job at Leeds. Terrible workplace at the moment.

 

[Tulip]

We've made top 4 in 2010 and 2012, hardly impossible.