No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[Scham]

So 2012 was better than 2014 or 2015? On what measure?

I'd say that's a fair call. In 2012 we over achieved. 2014 and 2015 we under achieved.

2014, to come off a close -ish GF loss that according to the players and coaches stung like hell and the players themselves said they'd be out for redemption was a poor season. Should've done better.

2015, to finish on top but not even make the GF! Again, should've done better.

 

[Reynolds Number]

We won more finals in 2012 than in 2014. So a fair call.

It can be argued that the last three months of our 2012 season was as good as anything we have seen under Lyon.

We just couldn't beat Adelaide (we only lost two of our last 11 games, both to Adelaide at Football Park).

Only a relatively poor second half against Mebourne in round 22 stopped Pav from getting the Coleman that year.

 

[yakka man]

He has done better at it than Harves or Cuddles.

I think it goes back to footy style. S Hill should have licence to take shots at goal from 50 on the run, and to bounce and carry to ball to 50 if he needs to.

I agree on that, but that is Lyon's responsibility. Our players rarely have the time and space to run and bounce, and that is due to the game style. Ross really struggles at drafting and developing outside players. Two of the best in the team now (B Hill & Wilson) have come from other clubs.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I agree on that, but that is Lyon's responsibility. Our players rarely have the time and space to run and bounce, and that is due to the game style. Ross really struggles at drafting and developing outside players. Two of the best in the team now (B Hill & Wilson) have come from other clubs.

Without trying to walk both sides of the street, I am saying we need to move on and look beyond Ross. His time is up and his tactical philosophy just does not work and is unlikely to.

That said, I think Ross is the only "proper" coach we've ever had. He was a big improvement on who came before him, but he is still not going to enough to get us a flag.

 

[Nodgey]

So 2012 was better than 2014 or 2015? On what measure?

We won a final.

 

[Nothing]

We won a final.

We played off in a prelim in 2015 and lost to the eventual premiers, after finishing top of the ladder. I'll give you 2014, at a stretch, but no way was 2012 better than 2015.

 

[its free real estate]

I have better memories of 2012 because it felt like we were building to something in the second half of the season, whereas 2015 it was apparent we were on the decline.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

What? Stephen Hill? He's injury prone that's all, any niggle seems to put him right off his game and coincidentally he's had his best years when our midfield is fit and firing.

But Hill is still played when injured. Playing players when they are injured is exactly the type of thing that people hold up as an example of how Harvey was a poor coach.

Menegola had his opportunities, he was also injured quite a bit and I believe the man himself admitted he wasn't as dedicated as he should have been.

Where were these opportunities that Menegola had in order to rack up the massive tally of zero games? Does a pre-season game played out of position really count?

MDB is a different story, we moved him on because we didn't need role players anymore and what player wouldn't be better going to GWS where all those No.1 picks are running around?

Ross is supposedly the mastermoind of getting the best out of role players. When did we stop needing them?

 

[Nodgey]

We played off in a prelim in 2015 and lost to the eventual premiers, after finishing top of the ladder. I'll give you 2014, at a stretch, but no way was 2012 better than 2015.

I stand corrected. We did beat Sydney in week 1 and then fell again to Hawthorn. But for mine, I had a better feeling about 2012 when it was finished than I did after 2015.

 

[wayToGo_]

2015 was awesome...

 

[E Shed]

I thought S Hills game last week was one of his best in a while. He really took the game on with his sidestep and trying to carry the ball and best of all he was really back to trying to really pinpoint targets with his kicks rather than throw it on the boot at the first opportunity. That was one of the things that really made him stand out early, never burning the ball.

 

[freo1997]

Just read Clive won’t be receiving his medal this weekend. Doesn’t want to travel here to be booed at by the eagles.. weak effort Clive

 

[AAACockburn]

The fact that Clay has had to change his moniker at lease 3 times says something surely !! Cage rattler, but its a free forum.
Keep plugging away Clay !!

Always good reading when he shows up under a new name.

 

[Oldman Docker]

Great and how does this have a negative impact on your life as a Freo supporter?

They made a loss. Freo aren't going bankrupt from it. It has no implication

I think you just want to complain

How does it impact?

It reinforcing my belief that the club leadership is way off course, incapable of listening to advice and is not isolated to the football department.

I do not have faith that the current administration is operating in an efficient manner, and as I thought I had mentioned, sustained success onfield is normally predicated by having a clean and sharp team off the field with a steady hand on the tiller.

Why would I, and others invest our money into a product which is subject to mismanagement?

 

[stax on the mull]

Just read Clive won’t be receiving his medal this weekend. Doesn’t want to travel here to be booed at by the eagles.. weak effort Clive

They booed him when he came over a few years ago and played in that Chris Mainwaring charity match.

 

[Scham]

They booed him when he came over a few years ago and played in that Chris Mainwaring charity match.

They boo everyone. They could represent Australia in booing. They've even been known to boo their own players FFS.

 

[tonygeeks]

How does it impact?

It reinforcing my belief that the club leadership is way off course, incapable of listening to advice and is not isolated to the football department.

I do not have faith that the current administration is operating in an efficient manner, and as I thought I had mentioned, sustained success onfield is normally predicated by having a clean and sharp team off the field with a steady hand on the tiller.

Why would I, and others invest our money into a product which is subject to mismanagement?

Well if that's the benchmark it has to be asked what you are still doing here because it has been our modus operandi from day 1


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Caldera]

Well if that's the benchmark it has to be asked what you are still doing here because it has been our modus operandi from day 1


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Stockholm Syndrome. We've all got it when it comes to Freo.

 

[BStaff17]

I stand corrected. We did beat Sydney in week 1 and then fell again to Hawthorn. But for mine, I had a better feeling about 2012 when it was finished than I did after 2015.

Yeah no doubt 2012 felt better then 2015.

PF loss to hawthorn was more heartbreaking & depressing as we were on top of the ladder from rd 3. And couldn't make the GF and the realisation set in that we couldn't beat hawthorn despite the week off and home ground advantage.

2012 was really a missed opportunity due to a slow start we were in better form at the back end of the year then in 2015. And i dont think our scoring wasn't an issue back then. Pav was still kicking bags regularly.

From memory our game plan actually stood up we just ran out of legs from back to back travel against Adelaide in that final from memory.

If Mcpharlin hadn't got injured and played on Tex he wouldn't have ran riot we would have won.

 

[Square Peg]

2012 was really a missed opportunity due to a slow start .

Yep, if Lyon had taken that team over one year earlier we would have had a massive chance to win the flag in 2012.
That first quarter and a half of the 2012 EF is still the best I have ever seen us play, even better than the 2013 finals. We led the reigning premiers 50-3 on the MCG in a final FFS. It was magic.

 

[Square Peg]

Yep, if Lyon had taken that team over one year earlier we would have had a massive chance to win the flag in 2012.
That first quarter and a half of the 2012 EF is still the best I have ever seen us play, even better than the 2013 finals. We led the reigning premiers 50-3 on the MCG in a final FFS. It was magic.

Sorry, I forgot this was the melt thread. So as for that Adelaide final in 2012, dropping Kep for Clarke, and leaving Silvagni on Walker until halfway through the last quarter, were massive coaching * ups. Clarke was so clueless that day.

 

[its free real estate]

Yep, if Lyon had taken that team over one year earlier we would have had a massive chance to win the flag in 2012.
That first quarter and a half of the 2012 EF is still the best I have ever seen us play, even better than the 2013 finals. We led the reigning premiers 50-3 on the MCG in a final FFS. It was magic.

One of the things that troubles me though is that Lyon's finals pedigree rests on besting Geelong. He seems to have honed his style from 2008-2015 on containing the sides that like to play on fast and move the ball through the corridor. It was a smart ploy to take down one of the best teams in that era, and those who attempted to copy them, but take the Cats out of the equation, and his winning record in big games ain't too crash hot. His best finals victories are:

2010 QF vs Geelong
2012 EF vs Geelong
2013 QF vs Geelong

 

[Square Peg]

One of the things that troubles me though is that Lyon's finals pedigree rests on besting Geelong. He seems to have honed his style from 2008-2015 on containing the sides that like to play on fast and move the ball through the corridor. It was a smart ploy to take down one of the best teams in that era, and those who attempted to copy them, but take the Cats out of the equation, and his winning record in big games ain't too crash hot. His best finals victories are:

2010 QF vs Geelong
2012 EF vs Geelong
2013 QF vs Geelong

The scars of 2009 are very deep, perhaps.

 

[its free real estate]

The scars of 2009 are very deep, perhaps.

Not so much. I think from 2007 onwards Geelong were such a formidable football club that every decent coach set up tactically to contain them, and every muppet coach tried to emulate them. So you had the clusters & presses of Clarkson/Lyon/Malthouse built to counter Geelong and their copycats. Geelong were a team so good they could have easily won five in a row between 2007-11 (and have continued to contest since then), but they had a game style that while prolific could be contained by a disciplined team. Lyon was the unlucky coach in creating an anti-Geelong game plan. Clarkson triumphed over all by creating an anti-press game plan after everyone copied the press.

When Lyon has met fellow press/defensive coaches in big matches he's come up short.

 

[Square Peg]

Not so much. I think from 2007 onwards Geelong were such a formidable football club that every decent coach set up tactically to contain them, and every muppet coach tried to emulate them. So you had the clusters & presses of Clarkson/Lyon/Malthouse built to counter Geelong and their copycats. Geelong were a team so good they could have easily won five in a row between 2007-11 (and have continued to contest since then), but they had a game style that while prolific could be contained by a disciplined team. Lyon was the unlucky coach in creating an anti-Geelong game plan. Clarkson triumphed over all by creating an anti-press game plan after everyone copied the press.

When Lyon has met fellow press/defensive coaches in big matches he's come up short.

Geelong 2007-11 could have had five, they also could have had one. Three was a fair outcome.
He beat a defensive minded coach in Longmire twice out of three times in finals 2013-15, albeit with those two wins against battered Sydney teams missing key players. I don't think his finals record is terrible at all, he has probably overachieved a bit considering what he has had at his disposal.
But it ain't improving anytime soon, the way he is going presently