The Missing Pieces?

[_RT_]

Moore - 190cm 90kg defender
Grimes - 193cm 87kg 3rd tall defender
Astbury - 195cm 92kg key defender
Connors - 186cm 84kg defender
Dea - 186cm 84kg defender
Morton - 186cm 81kg forward
Griffiths - 198cm 99kg key forward

Just wondering how much of a difference would these 7 players would have made to our lineup if they had of been fit and in form all season?

Looking at how they would fit into the lineup, it does change the dynamic somewhat:

B: Grimes Rance Moore
HB: Connors Astbury Newman
C: Deledio Martin Cotchin
HF: Houli Griffiths Morton
F: King Riewoldt Vickery
R: Browne/Graham Jackson Foley
INT: Grigg Conca Batchelor Dea

Out of the side go:
Miller - 194cm 96kg
McGuane - 192cm 91kg
Helbig - 185cm 77kg
Edwards - 182cm 78kg
White - 182cm 80kg
Farmer - 181cm 82kg
Nahas - 176cm 70kg

It kind of highlights just how much injuries, and off field issues in Mortons case, have hurt us in terms of development this year. Its forced us to turn to 2nd and in some cases 3rd choices to fill the positions that these guys would have played. Hopefully in the next few weeks we might get to see a lineup like the one above and get the chance to see a glimpse of what the future may hold.

 

[TimeFor11]

Look I am not his biggest fan but on form Nahas is in our top 10. He runs all day and is giving 100% in all our games. He is better than King for example. The answer to the question is that we would still have lost on the weekend. Our midfielders aren't doing what needs to be done going the other way.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

I doubt RT is referring to the game on the weekend, we should have had a better result than we did, even with what we put on the field.

For the season as a whole, I think RT's lineup would have been nice to have from a development point of view, but think we'd be in about the same ladder position by year's end as what we're doing now.

The differences aren't very significant.

And yeah, Nahas would be in the team before a few in that lineup.

 

[Wally Matera]

Its a bit of a cop out this thread... seriously, everyone has to deal with injuries and there are clubs out there that have had more to contend with than us.

Yes our backline has been destroyed, but of the 7 players that you've highlighted, 4 of them hadnt played over 10 games before the start of the year. And Connors had only played 30 odd.

Hardly players we outlined as "best 22" at the beginning of the year.

 

[_RT_]

Look I am not his biggest fan but on form Nahas is in our top 10. He runs all day and is giving 100% in all our games. He is better than King for example. The answer to the question is that we would still have lost on the weekend. Our midfielders aren't doing what needs to be done going the other way.

This isn't about last weekend, its about the bigger picture and filling the holes that need to be filled. Granted not all of those I named in that side will come on and be successful, but its all about the development of the list and side towards achieving the goal that we want to.

The reason I posed the question was because over the past few weeks Hardwick has mentioned their names in the press, which leads me to think that they were all important to his plans for this season.

Just on the King/Nahas issue. I went with King purely as a goal kicking defensive forward, which I think he plays much better than Nahas. As a midfield option Nahas is better but if we were able to field the side I posted I just don't see an place for Nahas given his lack of size and the fact that he has no left foot.

 

[Bojangles17]

Both Connors and Morton add what this side sorely lacks particularly in the 15-22 players picked that is class and the ability to win contested footy and finish. these two players are MUST inclusions at first avaialble opportunity. How dimma thinks he can build a side on the back of grunts in helbig, hislop and co is beyond me. im all for giving a guy a chance but sheesh a team is made up of many parts, and the right chemistry comes from some diversity in the team

 

[Wally Matera]

Both Connors and Morton add what this side sorely lacks particularly in the 15-22 players picked that is class and the ability to win contested footy and finish. these two players are MUST inclusions at first avaialble opportunity. How dimma thinks he can build a side on the back of grunts in helbig, hislop and co is beyond me. im all for giving a guy a chance but sheesh a team is made up of many parts, and the right chemistry comes from some diversity in the team

Morton is not a MUST inclusion. He has proven time and time again, under Wallace and Hardwick last year, that is unreliable and selfish. He may have talent, l dont question that, but he is a long way off being someone who must be picked every week.

 

[_RT_]

Its a bit of a cop out this thread... seriously, everyone has to deal with injuries and there are clubs out there that have had more to contend with than us.

Yes our backline has been destroyed, but of the 7 players that you've highlighted, 4 of them hadnt played over 10 games before the start of the year. And Connors had only played 30 odd.

Hardly players we outlined as "best 22" at the beginning of the year.

I'm not offering up the injuries as an excuse for us losing nor am I suggesting that these players are best 22 either. I'm looking at it purely from a development point of view, especially when you consider that its been repeatedly said that this year is all about development rather than results.

Of those players, all apart from Moore, would have all benefitted from having a solid year of development put into them to back up what they had shown last year/early this year in Grimes case. As for Moore, he would have added another senior experienced head to assist Newman in leading the backline while also providing some more reliability than what McGuane offers when it comes to disposing of the footy.

 

[_RT_]

I doubt RT is referring to the game on the weekend, we should have had a better result than we did, even with what we put on the field.

For the season as a whole, I think RT's lineup would have been nice to have from a development point of view, but think we'd be in about the same ladder position by year's end as what we're doing now.

The differences aren't very significant.

And yeah, Nahas would be in the team before a few in that lineup.

Maybe not a great difference in terms of overall results but I believe that in terms of structure they would make a real difference.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I seriously wonder what Nahas has to do to win some respect.
I had him as a 50/50 at thebeginning of the season too but I don't mind being wrong.
He has no left foot he's no Robinson Crusoe there Dustin Martin doesn't either and doesn't have Nahas speed to counteract it but that doesn't seem to matter.
Not saying Nahas is as good as Martin but he walks into this side at the moment and has a crack.His tackling embarrasses some of his bigger teammates.

Of the Astbury,Griffiths,Dea trio the reality is that maybe only maybe will one play over 100 games.

 

[TimeFor11]

I seriously wonder what Nahas has to do to win some respect.
I had him as a 50/50 at thebeginning of the season too but I don't mind being wrong.
He has no left foot he's no Robinson Crusoe there Dustin Martin doesn't either and doesn't have Nahas speed to counteract it but that doesn't seem to matter.
Not saying Nahas is as good as Martin but he walks into this side at the moment and has a crack.His tackling embarrasses some of his bigger teammates.

Of the Astbury,Griffiths,Dea trio the reality is that maybe only maybe will one play over 100 games.

Dustin Martin has a lethal left peg for someone who kicks on the right. But for some reason no doubt through coaches instruction we have seen it once this season. It resulted in one of our greatest passages of play this year Vs Brisbane at the G.

Go watch him last season used it more than Right on occasion, I believe if he goes back to using it when required instead of this inside out stuff he will grow further.

RT73 I wasn't talking about just this week, our midfield has been poor all year defensively.

 

[docko911]

To be honest Morton, Astbury and Connors were struggling early this season to the point that i doubt their inclusion would make much of a difference at all.
Dea hasn't really shown anything to warrant he is a player of any mould and IMO Batchelor already looks a much better player.
Griffiths is so raw his inclusion only benefits us development wise.
Grimes has shown he adds something to the team and long term should be a key component of our back line.
Finally Moore is the main player we are missing because he would be very useful leading our backline.

The real missing pieces in our club are 2-4 solid midfielders, a quality ruckman and about 1000 games. IMHO i think we already have the players that will make up the backline they just all have to be fit, we are about 1-2 small/mid sized forwards away from a solid forward line, midfield needs at least 2 but up to 4 more players and our ruck division doesn't exist.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Dustin Martin has a lethal left peg for someone who kicks on the right. But for some reason no doubt through coaches instruction we have seen it once this season. It resulted in one of our greatest passages of play this year Vs Brisbane at the G.

Go watch him last season used it more than Right on occasion, I believe if he goes back to using it when required instead of this inside out stuff he will grow further.

RT73 I wasn't talking about just this week, our midfield has been poor all year defensively.

I know he did last season and he has looked like a drunk trying to get on his right at times this year. Very confusing.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Ayone rate Matt Dea?? Honestly can't recall seeing him in action apart from against the Crows last year when they kicked 8 goals to nothing in the last to win by 50

Griffths if he is on the park will structurally make the forward line alot more dangerous

When he and Vickery really hit their straps in 2-3-4 years (hopefully) they will stretch defences like never before along withn the main man Jack

 

[Crumden]

With RT's changes in the OP what we would gain in bigger bodies we would lose in pace, so its a bit of a swings and roundabouts argument. And would our development be any better off for example by getting games into Dea rather than Helbig? I do think RT has a point in that injuries to all of Grimes, Astbury and Griffiths has set back our development as far as seeing how close we are to finding another key tall, but the others are the sort of injuries all clubs cop.

 

[camsmith]

We really miss Moore, our best defender imo. Grimes and Dea would be handy down there too to help Rance out. All those in and we would look far better down back.

Other than Girffiths not really sold on the others, hoping Astbury can become something.

 

[camsmith]

Both Connors and Morton add what this side sorely lacks particularly in the 15-22 players picked that is class and the ability to win contested footy and finish. these two players are MUST inclusions at first avaialble opportunity. How dimma thinks he can build a side on the back of grunts in helbig, hislop and co is beyond me. im all for giving a guy a chance but sheesh a team is made up of many parts, and the right chemistry comes from some diversity in the team

Connors and Morton inclusions because they win contested footy?

Ayone rate Matt Dea?? Honestly can't recall seeing him in action apart from against the Crows last year when they kicked 8 goals to nothing in the last to win by 50

Yeah I don't really rate him yet but we need a small shutdown defender so we just have to hope he turns out ok.

 

[aislegi]

The real missing pieces in our club are 2-4 solid midfielders, a quality ruckman and about 1000 games.

Inexperience is a bit of a cop-out, I reckon, insofar as the reason we are not experienced is that too many of the blokes we brought to the club from 2001 to 2007, who would now be "experienced", were crap and have been delisted or told to retire. I also worry that we may be saying the same thing about the 2009 crop in a couple of years.

 

[TimeFor11]

From the glimpses of Dea we've seen he looks as though he could develop into a quality 3rd/4th back has pace and very good size.

 

[_RT_]

I seriously wonder what Nahas has to do to win some respect.
I had him as a 50/50 at thebeginning of the season too but I don't mind being wrong.
He has no left foot he's no Robinson Crusoe there Dustin Martin doesn't either and doesn't have Nahas speed to counteract it but that doesn't seem to matter.
Not saying Nahas is as good as Martin but he walks into this side at the moment and has a crack.His tackling embarrasses some of his bigger teammates.

Of the Astbury,Griffiths,Dea trio the reality is that maybe only maybe will one play over 100 games.

Admire Nahas for pulling his finger out this year and improving on what he dished up last year, but I just don't think he'll be around when we're seriously pushing for the finals. He is doing enough at the moment to warrant being selected but at his size he needs to be doing that every week to have some sort of value.

 

[_RT_]

Let me just say again that I'm basing this thread on comments made by Hardwick over the last few weeks, where he has mentioned these players as ones he would have liked to have had available for most of the year. However because of various reasons he hasn't had them at his disposal and has had to turn to 2nd/3rd choice options to cover them.

 

[CoggaRules]

Moore - 190cm 90kg defender
Grimes - 193cm 87kg 3rd tall defender
Astbury - 195cm 92kg key defender
Connors - 186cm 84kg defender
Dea - 186cm 84kg defender
Morton - 186cm 81kg forward
Griffiths - 198cm 99kg key forward

Just wondering how much of a difference would these 7 players would have made to our lineup if they had of been fit and in form all season?

Looking at how they would fit into the lineup, it does change the dynamic somewhat:

B: Grimes Rance Moore
HB: Connors Astbury Newman
C: Deledio Martin Cotchin
HF: Houli Griffiths Morton
F: King Riewoldt Vickery
R: Browne/Graham Jackson Foley
INT: Grigg Conca Batchelor Dea

Out of the side go:
Miller - 194cm 96kg
McGuane - 192cm 91kg
Helbig - 185cm 77kg
Edwards - 182cm 78kg
White - 182cm 80kg
Farmer - 181cm 82kg
Nahas - 176cm 70kg

It kind of highlights just how much injuries, and off field issues in Mortons case, have hurt us in terms of development this year. Its forced us to turn to 2nd and in some cases 3rd choices to fill the positions that these guys would have played. Hopefully in the next few weeks we might get to see a lineup like the one above and get the chance to see a glimpse of what the future may hold.

What is a given is that the future will hold an injury list. What is also a given is that we will turn to our second stringers and 3rd stringers when that happens. Until the second stringers and 3rd stringers can come in and be somewhat competitive we will continue to see arse rippings like the one just witnessed.
What is also becoming apparent is that our latest drafting ploys are not paying off. The players we picked up later than they were suppose to go, due to whatever reasons, those reasons are biting us on the arse, because we have delved into rookie listed upgrades and swept them into the 1s to cover for them.
FJ and co need to really do their homework in the off season and they have to make sure that whoever they target doesnt come with a past major injury..because it always ****s up your plans..i.e. McIntosh. We put our eggs in that basket, he goes down and we are back to square one..

 

[Roachy8]

LMAO @ Matt Dea being included in our best 22 and being talked up as possibly an answer to our defensive woe's.

Good luck to the kid... I really hope he makes it but hell, what's he played so far, 3 games? Been injured a bit too...
An ex basketballer IIR who switched to AFL late in relative terms.

Just goes to show our horrible depth (& explains Coburgs shitfull form) that we are looking to guys like Dea to be one of our saviours going forward.

 

[tigerfansince86]

Agree McIntosh would be a silly move.

Love the side RT that's who I want to see in the team except I'd have Nahas in there instead of Grigg as he's shizenhouzen.

 

[Goldust]

Moore - 190cm 90kg defender
Grimes - 193cm 87kg 3rd tall defender
Astbury - 195cm 92kg key defender
Connors - 186cm 84kg defender
Dea - 186cm 84kg defender
Morton - 186cm 81kg forward
Griffiths - 198cm 99kg key forward

Just wondering how much of a difference would these 7 players would have made to our lineup if they had of been fit and in form all season?

Looking at how they would fit into the lineup, it does change the dynamic somewhat:

B: Grimes Rance Moore
HB: Connors Astbury Newman
C: Deledio Martin Cotchin
HF: Houli Griffiths Morton
F: King Riewoldt Vickery
R: Browne/Graham Jackson Foley
INT: Grigg Conca Batchelor Dea

Out of the side go:
Miller - 194cm 96kg
McGuane - 192cm 91kg
Helbig - 185cm 77kg
Edwards - 182cm 78kg
White - 182cm 80kg
Farmer - 181cm 82kg
Nahas - 176cm 70kg

It kind of highlights just how much injuries, and off field issues in Mortons case, have hurt us in terms of development this year. Its forced us to turn to 2nd and in some cases 3rd choices to fill the positions that these guys would have played. Hopefully in the next few weeks we might get to see a lineup like the one above and get the chance to see a glimpse of what the future may hold.

Plenty of doubt over what many of these could have brought to the table this season.
All things going well, Morton would be a fantastic inclusion and I would like to not only see him return to the line-up, but return to the midfield where he performed well late last year.
Connors too I rate, but injuries have been the issue.
As for the others, I think - if my mail is correct - we can get used to being without Moore. The injury I hear is far worse than the club is letting on.
Astbury ... well the issue there is form. He hasn't kicked on at all and is where he should be right now - at Coburg.
Dea ... that's a stretch from a guy who has played three games and probably about 50 game sof football at any level in his life.
Grimes was a HUGE loss IMO. Slotted in well and was looking the goods.
Griffiths ... jury out! It's all speculative with him right now and he doesn't seem to be able to stay away from injuries!!

From those outs. Hard to fault Nahas this season, White is a keeper and has played some real good football, Miller has played due to Griff being injured and Post being not ready and hasn't really disappointed, while no qualms with McGunae unlike some!