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James1970 said:
Not a fan of mash-ups in general, but a friend sent me this the other day - a complete mind-f***, and with the vid, close to genius...

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Should be Hawthorn's theme song..
 
James1970 said:
Not a fan of mash-ups in general, but a friend sent me this the other day - a complete mind-f***, and with the vid, close to genius...

Click to expand...


funny, I came across this recently too in a rather strange manner - been teaching my 9yo bits and pieces of her cheap crappy keyboard; I can't really play but I can keep one step ahead of her .. anyway, I gave her the choice of either Golden Brown or Take Five; in my mind I chose those two songs completely randomly - straight away she said 'they sound the same' and I found myself agreeing with her - mentioned it to a mate at work the next day and he brought up the mash-up that you linked ...

still haven't learned either song, got literally one chord into Golden Brown, still might re-visit it though.
 

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Vdubs said:
May I reciprocate with one of my favourite songs from my favourite Dylan album?
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great album.... My preference is the song before that and the song after it... but its what ever talks to you.
My fav Dylan song has change a few times over the years . Now id say its..


You've got a lotta nerve to say you are my friend
When I was down you just stood there grinnin'
You've got a lotta nerve to say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on the side that's winnin'

...

 
Cursed Cat said:
funny, I came across this recently too in a rather strange manner - been teaching my 9yo bits and pieces of her cheap crappy keyboard; I can't really play but I can keep one step ahead of her .. anyway, I gave her the choice of either Golden Brown or Take Five; in my mind I chose those two songs completely randomly - straight away she said 'they sound the same' and I found myself agreeing with her - mentioned it to a mate at work the next day and he brought up the mash-up that you linked ...

still haven't learned either song, got literally one chord into Golden Brown, still might re-visit it though.
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Probably different to what you are referring to with GB and T5 ... but Im never surprised that songs can sound close to each other, often even the best songs are inspired by others.. I listened to McCartney ( around the 16min mark) explain is inspiration for Blackbird.. or Procol Harum's whiter shade of pale..

To me it what the artist contribute to the art. Even some songs that sample other songs , if done cleverly can say their work is more than just an infringement. Is all art inspired by other? probably,



 
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Turbocat said:
Probably different to what you are referring to with GB and T5 ... but Im never surprised that songs can sound close to each other, often even the best songs are inspired by others.. I listened to McCartney ( around the 16min mark) explain is inspiration for Blackbird.. or Procol Harum's whiter shade of pale..

To me it what the artist contribute to the art. Even some songs that sample other songs , if done cleverly can say their work is more than just an infringement. Is all art inspired by other? probably,



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your posts often leave me with a smile Turbo; I do enjoy it when you’re of a philosophical frame of mind..

Cormac McCarthy, who is probably my favourite author, is quoted as saying ‘books are made out of other books’ when asked about the influence of other authors on his work - I think that idea that we build upon what has come before probably applies to all art, probably every human endeavour for that matter.

I learned Blackbird on the acoustic fairly recently, what a beautifully designed song it is.
 
Cursed Cat said:
your posts often leave me with a smile Turbo; I do enjoy it when you’re of a philosophical frame of mind..

Cormac McCarthy, who is probably my favourite author, is quoted as saying ‘books are made out of other books’ when asked about the influence of other authors on his work - I think that idea that we build upon what has come before probably applies to all art, probably every human endeavour for that matter.

I learned Blackbird on the acoustic fairly recently, what a beautifully designed song it is.
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Thank you CC.

I envy the the talent you have. Playing a guitar as kid, taking lessons in the old Brash's in town... obviously not there now... but was not something I persisted with. A bit like my father who as a kid was i the Melb Jr MSO on a Violin. The skill went but the appreciation stayed.

That clip with McCartney talking about 300 songs ... some people talent is just jaw dropping...I wonder how many version have been done of Yesterday. Different version open to a different ear. Shrek Im a Believer or UB40 and Red Red wine .. both let some know about Diamond.


Ones ear detunes a certain tone. Sometimes I hear a different version and one realises the talent behind the commercialistic flavour that was cooked a certain way to sell. I dont think I ever gave Nirvana Heart-Shaped Box any time till I heard it in Westworld done in a different flavour.
 
Turbocat said:
Thank you CC.

I envy the the talent you have. Playing a guitar as kid, taking lessons in the old Brash's in town... obviously not there now... but was not something I persisted with. A bit like my father who as a kid was i the Melb Jr MSO on a Violin. The skill went but the appreciation stayed.

That clip with McCartney talking about 300 songs ... some people talent is just jaw dropping...I wonder how many version have been done of Yesterday. Different version open to a different ear. Shrek Im a Believer or UB40 and Red Red wine .. both let some know about Diamond.


Ones ear detunes a certain tone. Sometimes I hear a different version and one realises the talent behind the commercialistic flavour that was cooked a certain way to sell. I dont think I ever gave Nirvana Heart-Shaped Box any time till I heard it in Westworld done in a different flavour.
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not sure about talent; I can play a bit, don't really push myself hard enough though - my son though, is a jaw-droppingly good guitarist (and can basically play anything with strings or keys pretty damn well).

watching the McCartney clip now - when it comes to the Beatles I'm a bit more aligned with your previous avatar, Lennon - however I think they were at their best as a combo as their respective solo careers show (imo) - McCartney clearly the more accomplished musician, but Lennon far surpassed him as a conceptualist ... anyway, probably a bit silly of me to split them up as it diminishes each somewhat. With the Beatles though, I find that most of my very favourite of their songs were ostensibly written by Lennon, but with a very strong contribution from McCartney. McCartney was (and is) so good that he didn't really need the input from the others, Lennon's demos were sketchier but allowed more room for the others to contribute (She Said She Said a good example with Ringo's inspired drumming and Harrison's arrangement - Tomorrow Never Knows a great example of McCartney adding so much to a Lennon composition with his tape loops and the idea of Ringo's syncopated drum pattern).

as for covers for some reason I am drawing a blank at present - the only observation I can add is that it is funny how during the 60s a lot of soul artists would happily cover contemporaneous songs; these days there seems to be more of a wont to cover songs at a remove; i.e. older songs or songs from with a radically different background in terms of genre/arrangement.
 
Shai said:
This sums up music for me.
View attachment 1184458
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Nostalgia is a funny thing - I'm no different to you; I tend to go back to the music that excited me during my formative years - but I try to find new things to listen to from time to time.
It can still be very exciting to hear something new and different.
(I'm) Not gonna find much on commercial radio to excite me though; usually it will be something that I completely stumble across.

The NPR Music Tiny Desk concert series which I find on Youtube is a reasonably reliable source for new music from artists I've often never heard of; often come across great music I'd never otherwise have heard ...
 
Cursed Cat said:
not sure about talent; I can play a bit, don't really push myself hard enough though - my son though, is a jaw-droppingly good guitarist (and can basically play anything with strings or keys pretty damn well).

watching the McCartney clip now - when it comes to the Beatles I'm a bit more aligned with your previous avatar, Lennon - however I think they were at their best as a combo as their respective solo careers show (imo) - McCartney clearly the more accomplished musician, but Lennon far surpassed him as a conceptualist ... anyway, probably a bit silly of me to split them up as it diminishes each somewhat. With the Beatles though, I find that most of my very favourite of their songs were ostensibly written by Lennon, but with a very strong contribution from McCartney. McCartney was (and is) so good that he didn't really need the input from the others, Lennon's demos were sketchier but allowed more room for the others to contribute (She Said She Said a good example with Ringo's inspired drumming and Harrison's arrangement - Tomorrow Never Knows a great example of McCartney adding so much to a Lennon composition with his tape loops and the idea of Ringo's syncopated drum pattern).

as for covers for some reason I am drawing a blank at present - the only observation I can add is that it is funny how during the 60s a lot of soul artists would happily cover contemporaneous songs; these days there seems to be more of a wont to cover songs at a remove; i.e. older songs or songs from with a radically different background in terms of genre/arrangement.
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Lennon and mcCartney... my guess there could be whole thread on them and their attributes somewhere. Id say Lennon was the more acerbic, more cutting, more abstract , McCartney the more soft, the more eccentric, sentimental and feelgood. Of course both could supply examples of either.. but at the best they were still in their 20's and the two balanced each other. Both extremely talented. I guess if you look at WA songs.. that McCartney shows his range, he could be hard and silly..going from Helter Skelter, USSR to Rocky Raccoon ..Lennon the sadder and more cutting Dear Prudence, Warm Gun and Glass onion. Such an eclectic album. Has there ever been a better double album?

Is it any wonder Harrison's guitar was weeping, he was screaming for a chance to do more .. and Star wrote don't pass me by. They were the Billy Brownless duo compared to the Gary Ablett duo. How could you get the ball passed to you standing next to him.

I think looking at the post beatles work, both still produced som brillant work but the speration saw their balance was gone. Lennon become a tad bitter ..with stuff like sleep at night .. and McCartney no long had albums full of quality more 2 or 3 songs( slipping backwards to a normal high quality songwriter).

I do think Martins influence helped in arrangement and education early in the 60's but like any child they outgrew the parent , and needed to stretch their legs. Probably much earlier than when they eventually broke up. Perhap if they had done that they they could have come back at a convenient time but its hardly unique in a band dynamic to bust up and become bitter after living together so long. Probably worse than most divorce its probably one reason why I like Almost Famous so much.
 
Turbocat said:
Lennon and mcCartney... my guess there could be whole thread on them and their attributes somewhere. Id say Lennon was the more acerbic, more cutting, more abstract , McCartney the more soft, the more eccentric, sentimental and feelgood. Of course both could supply examples of either.. but at the best they were still in their 20's and the two balanced each other. Both extremely talented. I guess if you look at WA songs.. that McCartney shows his range, he could be hard and silly..going from Helter Skelter, USSR to Rocky Raccoon ..Lennon the sadder and more cutting Dear Prudence, Warm Gun and Glass onion. Such an eclectic album. Has there ever been a better double album?

Is it any wonder Harrison's guitar was weeping, he was screaming for a chance to do more .. and Star wrote don't pass me by. They were the Billy Brownless duo compared to the Gary Ablett duo. How could you get the ball passed to you standing next to him.

I think looking at the post beatles work, both still produced som brillant work but the speration saw their balance was gone. Lennon become a tad bitter ..with stuff like sleep at night .. and McCartney no long had albums full of quality more 2 or 3 songs( slipping backwards to a normal high quality songwriter).

I do think Martins influence helped in arrangement and education early in the 60's but like any child they outgrew the parent , and needed to stretch their legs. Probably much earlier than when they eventually broke up. Perhap if they had done that they they could have come back at a convenient time but its hardly unique in a band dynamic to bust up and become bitter after living together so long. Probably worse than most divorce its probably one reason why I like Almost Famous so much.
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Can only agree with your post - George Martin a really integral part of their sound for sure, brought a lot of know-how and nous and was able to interpret their ideas and help bring them to life.
Lennon talked a lot of s**t and yet was also extremely honest - agree that How do you Sleep was a very poor effort, judging by interviews I've read he softened his stance on McCartney prior to his death.

As you say, an entire thread on the Lennon/McCartney dynamic would yield plenty.

I quite like this article I read a few years ago, I think it is in 3 parts, and there's plenty I had already seen covered; regardless I found it reasonably insightful:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...de_the_lennonmccartney_connection_part_1.html
 

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Cursed Cat said:
Can only agree with your post - George Martin a really integral part of their sound for sure, brought a lot of know-how and nous and was able to interpret their ideas and help bring them to life.
Lennon talked a lot of sh*t and yet was also extremely honest - agree that How do you Sleep was a very poor effort, judging by interviews I've read he softened his stance on McCartney prior to his death.

As you say, an entire thread on the Lennon/McCartney dynamic would yield plenty.

I quite like this article I read a few years ago, I think it is in 3 parts, and there's plenty I had already seen covered; regardless I found it reasonably insightful:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...de_the_lennonmccartney_connection_part_1.html
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Historically gents, this whole music thread was started by barmy44 and myself when we were discussing just this- the Beatles, Macca v Lennon etc, and rather than getting warned for stuffing up some boring footy thread, we started a music thread. Barmy 44 is the ultimate Beatles appreciator, but you guys are right up there.
 
Vdubs said:
Historically gents, this whole music thread was started by barmy44 and myself when we were discussing just this- the Beatles, Macca v Lennon etc, and rather than getting warned for stuffing up some boring footy thread, we started a music thread. Barmy 44 is the ultimate Beatles appreciator, but you guys are right up there.
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I have checked into this thread once or twice over the years Vdubs; did so again for the first time in aaaages the other day and accidentally clicked on page 1, which documents at least some of that conversation between yourself and barmy44.

Beatles endlessly fascinating imo.

My Mum snuck out and saw them at Festival Hall in '64 as a young teen, she was a bit of a rebel - my old man tells me his parents wouldn't let him go
:$

inexplicable Beatles fact: the biggest turn out for the Beatles anywhere in the world, ever, was apparently Adelaide :oops:
 
Cursed Cat said:
I have checked into this thread once or twice over the years Vdubs; did so again for the first time in aaaages the other day and accidentally clicked on page 1, which documents at least some of that conversation between yourself and barmy44.

Beatles endlessly fascinating imo.

My Mum snuck out and saw them at Festival Hall in '64 as a young teen, she was a bit of a rebel - my old man tells me his parents wouldn't let him go
:$

inexplicable Beatles fact: the biggest turn out for the Beatles anywhere in the world, ever, was apparently Adelaide :oops:
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On that tour didn't they play all their songs in 3/4 time?
 
Turbocat said:
On that tour didn't they play all their songs in 3/4 time?
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hm, I don't think so - but Ringo didn't make the trip to Australia as he was ill, Jimmy Nicol filled in - here's some footage, I'm pretty sure the audio is from the same gig, synchs up well enough (I ran You Can't Do That and now I just wanna watch the whole thing, alas domestic duties call):



Edit: actually, I'm wrong - Ringo missed the first few dates in Australia and then re-joined the group for the Melbourne gig - umm, which is why he's right there in the clip :$
 
Cursed Cat said:
Can only agree with your post - George Martin a really integral part of their sound for sure, brought a lot of know-how and nous and was able to interpret their ideas and help bring them to life.
Lennon talked a lot of sh*t and yet was also extremely honest - agree that How do you Sleep was a very poor effort, judging by interviews I've read he softened his stance on McCartney prior to his death.

As you say, an entire thread on the Lennon/McCartney dynamic would yield plenty.

I quite like this article I read a few years ago, I think it is in 3 parts, and there's plenty I had already seen covered; regardless I found it reasonably insightful:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/creative_pairs/features/2010/two_of_us/inside_the_lennonmccartney_connection_part_1.html
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Intersting. I have read a fair bit on them but always a good thing to add.

I found this thought provoking ..

In a 1995 interview, Mick Jagger was asked how he and Keith Richards lasted so long as songwriting partners, when Lennon and McCartney split. His answer was simple: A team needs a leader. (He didn't go so far as to explicitly identify himself as that leader, but he made it perfectly clear.)
By contrast, John and Paul, Jagger said, "seemed to be very competitive over leadership of the band. … If there are 10 things, they both wanted to be in charge of nine of them. You're not gonna make a relationship like that work, are you?"


Its true that every team needs a leader...but its also true that every team need participants that are willing to be lead, or willing to supplicate. In this we see groupd of all sort fall apart after one long term leader gos , and multiples then strive for leadership. Several put this in the Beatles to the loss of Epstein.
 
Cursed Cat said:
hm, I don't think so - but Ringo didn't make the trip to Australia as he was ill, Jimmy Nicol filled in - here's some footage, I'm pretty sure the audio is from the same gig, synchs up well enough (I ran You Can't Do That and now I just wanna watch the whole thing, alas domestic duties call):



Edit: actually, I'm wrong - Ringo missed the first few dates in Australia and then re-joined the group for the Melbourne gig - umm, which is why he's right there in the clip :$
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No Ringo ... so. 3 out 4 Beatles...

Yes there is visions somehwere with Nichol sitting alone at the airport just days afetr being mobbed
 
Cursed Cat said:
hm, I don't think so - but Ringo didn't make the trip to Australia as he was ill, Jimmy Nicol filled in - here's some footage, I'm pretty sure the audio is from the same gig, synchs up well enough (I ran You Can't Do That and now I just wanna watch the whole thing, alas domestic duties call):



Edit: actually, I'm wrong - Ringo missed the first few dates in Australia and then re-joined the group for the Melbourne gig - umm, which is why he's right there in the clip :$
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In that periodb they said the crowd noise was generally so loud that they couldn't hear themselves playing; watch them constantly glancing at each other to pick up cues about where they are :D
 
Turbocat said:
No Ringo ... so. 3 out 4 Beatles...

Yes there is visions somehwere with Nichol sitting alone at the airport just days afetr being mobbed
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my mistake, I did make a quick edit - Ringo missed the first few dates but he's there in the Melbourne footage, apparently he re-joined the group on that date ..

Nichol apparently came up with the ''it's getting better'' running joke within the band that indirectly led to the song of the same name on Sgt Peppers
 
FredLeDeux said:
In that periodb they said the crowd noise was generally so loud that they couldn't hear themselves playing; watch them constantly glancing at each other to pick up cues about where they are :D
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very true - on the other hand though, listen to that closing 3-part harmony note on She Loves You on the Festival Hall footage - it is spot. on.
 
Turbocat said:
Intersting. I have read a fair bit on them but always a good thing to add.

I found this thought provoking ..

In a 1995 interview, Mick Jagger was asked how he and Keith Richards lasted so long as songwriting partners, when Lennon and McCartney split. His answer was simple: A team needs a leader. (He didn't go so far as to explicitly identify himself as that leader, but he made it perfectly clear.)
By contrast, John and Paul, Jagger said, "seemed to be very competitive over leadership of the band. … If there are 10 things, they both wanted to be in charge of nine of them. You're not gonna make a relationship like that work, are you?"


Its true that every team needs a leader...but its also true that every team need participants that are willing to be lead, or willing to supplicate. In this we see groupd of all sort fall apart after one long term leader gos , and multiples then strive for leadership. Several put this in the Beatles to the loss of Epstein.
Click to expand...

The death of Epstein probably brought things to a head in terms of leadership and direction, that's a good point - McCartney sought to steer the ship through this period, but Lennon always saw himself as the leader, despite being too out of it to really provide any leadership or direction for a good stretch there.
Anyway, I'm not sure I agree with Jagger - perhaps if longevity is the sole goal then a defined leader is preferable - it's certainly worked for the Stones - but the tension/competitiveness between Lennon and McCartney surely contributed mightily to their creative output.
 
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