Opinion The NBA Thread

[Stoods]

Any love for the Celtics? Lol

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Man, you guys are high on Indy, can't really see them finishing above Washington for one.

Sac trading Gay for Gibson would leave them a bit short at small forward - classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[the mighty T]

Any love for the Celtics? Lol

I like what they're trying to do but their roster is a bit lopsided at the moment. Lee makes them a better offensive team and big Amir can be handy but I don't see them being better than last season.

Man, you guys are high on Indy, can't really see them finishing above Washington for one.

Sac trading Gay for Gibson would leave them a bit short at small forward - classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Indy has the biggest question mark over them with a new game style and the return of PG13.. and given such a drastic overhaul of their starting lineup, I'm betting they're slow off the blocks but build into the season. Ellis is a handy player to add in, and in an Eastern conference bereft of genuine playoff teams I think they'll do quite well.

The Wizards are hard to place for mine.. I like the way they go about it, but I'm struggling to see where they've improved.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Indy has the biggest question mark over them with a new game style and the return of PG13.. and given such a drastic overhaul of their starting lineup, I'm betting they're slow off the blocks but build into the season. Ellis is a handy player to add in, and in an Eastern conference bereft of genuine playoff teams I think they'll do quite well.

I just see too much skill duplication in Indy - Hill, Monta, Stuckey, PG - there's four guys who need the ball in their hands. Was really surprised that they re-signed Stuckey after investing in Monta, seems like overkill.

More ominously, Indy's probably got the worst frontcourt in the league on paper now - Mahinmi, Allen, Hill & Turner. They're obviously high on Turner, but it's a bit much to expect a rookie to carry the load up front. Just can't see where the spacing is going to come from, or Mahinmi aside, the defence.

The Wizards are hard to place for mine.. I like the way they go about it, but I'm struggling to see where they've improved.

They're banking on incremental improvement from Wall, Beal & Otto Porter. The latter was really impressive in the playoffs, showed great signs.

In reality they're waiting for KD, but the East is so weak they could end up as high as #2. Injuries aside, they're certainly not missing the playoffs.

 

[Knightmare]

Being a Spurs fan I'll come back and contribute here once the playoffs start.

On that topic, if the Spurs make the playoffs this year (and let's face it we will with West and LMA coming in) they will equal the immortal Celtics team of the 50's and 60's with 19 straight appearances in the post season.

Not a bad run.

I shouldn't be, but I'm worried for the Spurs out West.

Aldridge is an All Star. West can still start for some teams and if not then play major role for a team.

In saying that the reports are that Parker like last season just isn't himself - not getting to the rim or hitting shots. Without Parker getting back to who he was through the 13/14 season and earlier. I'm just not that confident in what the Spurs can do. I also expect the loss of Belinelli to hurt more than expected with the Spurs also weak for perimeter shooters and really needing Jimmer Fredette to come good.
The Spurs frontline is all time great but in saying that Duncan and Aldridge in today's NBA with the stretch fours is risky. While they're both dominant scoring bigs be it from mid range or in the post, they both struggle to defend the perimeter when teams such as Golden State bring out the likes of Draymond Green. Maybe the Bulls start Nikola Mirotic. Paul George is expected to start at the 4 for Indiana. It's a very different NBA and that mix for the Spurs while the names are great. I'm not sure the mix will work quite as well, particularly in the playoffs as they expect. But maybe if they go back to the Spurs of the 90s where they destroy you on the inside then maybe.

But it's a speculative call and I hope I'm wrong because the Spurs are my favourite team out West.

It has been an incredible run and the best certainly since the 90s Bulls. And even as a Bulls fan I concede Bill Russell's Celtics are the greatest teams of all time and Wilt is better than Michael.

 

[the mighty T]

I just see too much skill duplication in Indy - Hill, Monta, Stuckey, PG - there's four guys who need the ball in their hands. Was really surprised that they re-signed Stuckey after investing in Monta, seems like overkill.

More ominously, Indy's probably got the worst frontcourt in the league on paper now - Mahinmi, Allen, Hill & Turner. They're obviously high on Turner, but it's a bit much to expect a rookie to carry the load up front. Just can't see where the spacing is going to come from, or Mahinmi aside, the defence.

They're banking on incremental improvement from Wall, Beal & Otto Porter. The latter was really impressive in the playoffs, showed great signs.

In reality they're waiting for KD, but the East is so weak they could end up as high as #2. Injuries aside, they're certainly not missing the playoffs.

They're exceptionally high on Turner, and I'll admit that I was surprised by their wrecking ball approach to their frontcourt. But I think there's enough talent there and a guy like Solomon Hill should be able to contribute a little more this year. I also quite like Rakeem Christmas who they just drafted.. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Perhaps the mystique of PG is having an influence.

If they truly are waiting on KD I get the feeling they'll be more than a little disappointed. And I like Porter, but I'd like to see a little consistency shown over a longer stretch before making any calls on their championship prospects. Definitely wont miss playoffs though

 

[Knightmare]

Man, you guys are high on Indy, can't really see them finishing above Washington for one.

Sac trading Gay for Gibson would leave them a bit short at small forward - classic case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Washington are interesting. Without Paul Pierce they'll lack that veteran in the locker room. Nene is injury prone as anything. And the mix doesn't quite feel right. Who starts at the 4? Who starts at the 3?

Indiana last year were really competitive and they didn't even have Paul George. Getting George back and adding Monta Ellis. Myles Turner I like as a rookie and Jordan Hill is a productive big man. Well coached. So I feel they'll be in much the same conversation as Washington. The main question for me is how they go in changing the pace of play.

I expect the Kings without Gay would be better as Toronto were and Memphis was after trading him. Gay is such an extremely anti-analytics guy as such a high volume shooter who goes for too many long 2s and isn't great from 3pt range.

For bigs all the Kings in terms of worthwhile bigs is: Cousins, Koufos and Cauley-Stein. They're all centers. Maybe Caron Butler could play as a stretch 4. But they simply don't have an option at power forward. Taj Gibson alongside Cousins having watched Gibson for years is a perfect fit as a guy who defenders, rebounds, gets offensive boards, finishes. Will get shots in the flow of the offense without demanding the ball. He covers on defence and defenders the rim and can defend the perimeter.

Between the SF/SG positions the Kings have: McLemore, Belinelli, C.Butler and Casspi who are all worth having as part of a rotation. James Anderson is another who can stretch the floor and may be worth finding some minutes for. I don't have a problem with the numbers and given how anti-analytics Gay is, I'd back Sacramento to win more games without Gay than with Gay, with no Gay meaning better shots and more efficient offence.

Also from a pace perspective. While the Kings owner advocates a fast pace and a four man defence with a cherry picker on offence. Cousins, Rondo and those other pieces I feel in a half court, slow game would be much better suited.

So that's a lot of why the Kings are a mess, even though Divac has quietly added some good pieces.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

They're exceptionally high on Turner, and I'll admit that I was surprised by their wrecking ball approach to their frontcourt. But I think there's enough talent there and a guy like Solomon Hill should be able to contribute a little more this year. I also quite like Rakeem Christmas who they just drafted.. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Perhaps the mystique of PG is having an influence.

If they truly are waiting on KD I get the feeling they'll be more than a little disappointed. And I like Porter, but I'd like to see a little consistency shown over a longer stretch before making any calls on their championship prospects. Definitely wont miss playoffs though

There's talent there for the Pacers, but most of the players blessed with it play in the same positions

Over on the bball board I was previewing Indy and just couldn't get my head around their likely rotations for the season. Maybe they actually will play PG at the four full-time, or even Solomon Hill. They've got Budinger and CJ Miles to somehow fit in too. Tbh I don't think they expected David West to walk - he'd have been a natural playing partner for Monta in the same manner that Dirk was in Dallas.

Roster seems un-balanced and ripe for a trade, trendy small-ball notwithstanding. I don't think Washington are ready for championship contention either (hence waiting for KD), but I do think they're still comfortably in the 2-6 range in the East. Indy's more likely to be 7-10.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Washington are interesting. Without Paul Pierce they'll lack that veteran in the locker room. Nene is injury prone as anything. And the mix doesn't quite feel right. Who starts at the 4? Who starts at the 3?

They got within a bee's dick of the ECF with pretty much the same team and with Wall missing games. Nene and Hump will split the majority of the time at the four one would imagine. They're actually pretty deep at the three - Porter, Dudley, Alan Anderson & Martell Webster. None of them perfect, but enough variety in skill-sets to cover all contingencies. Dudley and Anderson are underrated, although they might not be healthy to start the season.

Indiana last year were really competitive and they didn't even have Paul George. Getting George back and adding Monta Ellis. Myles Turner I like as a rookie and Jordan Hill is a productive big man. Well coached. So I feel they'll be in much the same conversation as Washington. The main question for me is how they go in changing the pace of play.

Jordan Hill's greatest attribute is offensive rebounding, but that goes missing when he's asked to play as a mediocre stretch big. He's also horrible defensively - Ed Davis was the underrated big for the Lakers last season, Hill's more an empty numbers guy. Myles Turner could be good, but how often do rookie big men actually help their teams? Re. Monta, I just don't see how he fits alongside three other perimeter players who also need the ball, and without a legitimate floor-stretcher up front. Maybe PG will play PF, but that'll leave them horribly exposed defensively.

I expect the Kings without Gay would be better as Toronto were and Memphis was after trading him. Gay is such an extremely anti-analytics guy as such a high volume shooter who goes for too many long 2s and isn't great from 3pt range.

Between the SF/SG positions the Kings have: McLemore, Belinelli, C.Butler and Casspi who are all worth having as part of a rotation. James Anderson is another who can stretch the floor and may be worth finding some minutes for. I don't have a problem with the numbers and given how anti-analytics Gay is, I'd back Sacramento to win more games without Gay than with Gay, with no Gay meaning better shots and more efficient offence.

That's become a well-worn cliche, but it's something of a myth. Rudy has a TS% of 56 in Sacramento, which is actually above average for a high volume perimeter player, particularly one who doesn't shoot a heap of threes. He shot 36% on threes last year, which is respectable. He also gets to the FT line.

If you look up the Kings on/off stats last season, their problem was their bench, not Rudy. Their starting line-up was actually a net positive and Gay had a VORP rating of +2.5. Sacramento also finished top half of the league for offensive efficiency despite the handicap of being coached by Ty Corbin.

McLemore and Belinelli would split time at SG one would think. I like Casspi, but he's an energy bench guy. Butler's a break-glass option, not a viable starter anymore.

For bigs all the Kings in terms of worthwhile bigs is: Cousins, Koufos and Cauley-Stein. They're all centers. Maybe Caron Butler could play as a stretch 4. But they simply don't have an option at power forward. Taj Gibson alongside Cousins having watched Gibson for years is a perfect fit as a guy who defenders, rebounds, gets offensive boards, finishes. Will get shots in the flow of the offense without demanding the ball. He covers on defence and defenders the rim and can defend the perimeter.

Taj is a very decent player, but I'd be highly surprised if the Kings traded Rudy for him, particularly after extending him so recently. I wouldn't be surprised if Rudy himself plays a little stretch four this season. Suspect WCS will get plenty of mins at PF as he's an unbelievably mobile defender.

Also from a pace perspective. While the Kings owner advocates a fast pace and a four man defence with a cherry picker on offence. Cousins, Rondo and those other pieces I feel in a half court, slow game would be much better suited.

So that's a lot of why the Kings are a mess, even though Divac has quietly added some good pieces.

The four man defence thing was always blown up way out of proportion. As for preferred pace, I dunno if I'd want Rondo pounding the ball in the half court - see Dallas, 2015. If the Kings want to run they needed improved interior D and better shooting on the wings, areas they have addressed.

Will it work? Who knows, but until the Kings get an elite stretch four I doubt they'll want to play a 90s style grind, especially with George Karl coaching.

 

[the mighty T]

There's talent there for the Pacers, but most of the players blessed with it play in the same positions

Over on the bball board I was previewing Indy and just couldn't get my head around their likely rotations for the season. Maybe they actually will play PG at the four full-time, or even Solomon Hill. They've got Budinger and CJ Miles to somehow fit in too. Tbh I don't think they expected David West to walk - he'd have been a natural playing partner for Monta in the same manner that Dirk was in Dallas.

Roster seems un-balanced and ripe for a trade, trendy small-ball notwithstanding. I don't think Washington are ready for championship contention either (hence waiting for KD), but I do think they're still comfortably in the 2-6 range in the East. Indy's more likely to be 7-10.

Sweet preview dude, so much reading to catch up on.

 

[Knightmare]

They got within a bee's dick of the ECF with pretty much the same team and with Wall missing games. Nene and Hump will split the majority of the time at the four one would imagine. They're actually pretty deep at the three - Porter, Dudley, Alan Anderson & Martell Webster. None of them perfect, but enough variety in skill-sets to cover all contingencies. Dudley and Anderson are underrated, although they might not be healthy to start the season.



Jordan Hill's greatest attribute is offensive rebounding, but that goes missing when he's asked to play as a mediocre stretch big. He's also horrible defensively - Ed Davis was the underrated big for the Lakers last season, Hill's more an empty numbers guy. Myles Turner could be good, but how often do rookie big men actually help their teams? Re. Monta, I just don't see how he fits alongside three other perimeter players who also need the ball, and without a legitimate floor-stretcher up front. Maybe PG will play PF, but that'll leave them horribly exposed defensively.



That's become a well-worn cliche, but it's something of a myth. Rudy has a TS% of 56 in Sacramento, which is actually above average for a high volume perimeter player, particularly one who doesn't shoot a heap of threes. He shot 36% on threes last year, which is respectable. He also gets to the FT line.

If you look up the Kings on/off stats last season, their problem was their bench, not Rudy. Their starting line-up was actually a net positive and Gay had a VORP rating of +2.5. Sacramento also finished top half of the league for offensive efficiency despite the handicap of being coached by Ty Corbin.

McLemore and Belinelli would split time at SG one would think. I like Casspi, but he's an energy bench guy. Butler's a break-glass option, not a viable starter anymore.



Taj is a very decent player, but I'd be highly surprised if the Kings traded Rudy for him, particularly after extending him so recently. I wouldn't be surprised if Rudy himself plays a little stretch four this season. Suspect WCS will get plenty of mins at PF as he's an unbelievably mobile defender.



The four man defence thing was always blown up way out of proportion. As for preferred pace, I dunno if I'd want Rondo pounding the ball in the half court - see Dallas, 2015. If the Kings want to run they needed improved interior D and better shooting on the wings, areas they have addressed.

Will it work? Who knows, but until the Kings get an elite stretch four I doubt they'll want to play a 90s style grind, especially with George Karl coaching.

I'm not convinced Porter is or will be good enough to be a long term rotation player let alone starter. Dudley, Anderson and Webster are all low level rotation players so I don't share your view on those guys specifically.
I see Washington going as far as Wall and Beal take them. I tend to just fit them into much the same discussion as Indiana and I wouldn't count either as better than the other, only different in makeup.

Jordan Hill should start at centre for Indiana so I'm not sure where you are coming from talking about him as a floor spacer. He will be the guy patrolling the boards for Indiana with George at the four with Turner coming off the bench and that first rotation big man at either big man position. When Hill and Turner play together I'd expect Turner to be used as the floor spacer as something of Indiana's LaMarcus Aldridge equivalent as that big who stretches the floor more so than crashes the boards as Hill more so does.

I expect both Paul George at the four and Turner stretch the floor for Indiana. Chase Budinger while a reserve at the 3 also can stretch the floor and hit his 3s. So that balance shouldn't be so terrible.

I agree with you on Indiana's backcourt where there is a lot of replication with a lot of guys who like the ball in hand and aren't catch and shoot 3pt shooters. And that's more so what will relatively hold Indiana back from being at least a top 4 seed out East. It doesn't mean they can't become something like Phoenix East with that roughly what they're looking likely to attempt to play.

Rondo I like in the half court when he has shooters and ball movers around him. With Belinelli and Anderson from the Spurs, C.Butler, Curry and with McLemore if he can find his shot. Those guys can hit the three ball and other than McLemore are willing to keep the ball moving. I really like that backcourt with Rondo.

George Karl is a terrible choice of coach for Cousins. Cousins needs to play in the half court - see record with Mike Malone. He turns over the basketball too much otherwise.

Rudy Gay on the other hand is best in a fast-break, open court game that doesn't get bogged down in half court play.

I guess overall I'm much less optimistic on the idea of a fast-pace for Sacramento and have entirely given up on that idea even before the start of the season. So I'm probably a few steps ahead of Sacramento in their list build.

But if you're convinced a fast pace will work for Sacramento. Then sure. Keep Gay.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

I'm not convinced Porter is or will be good enough to be a long term rotation player let alone starter. Dudley, Anderson and Webster are all low level rotation players so I don't share your view on those guys specifically.
I see Washington going as far as Wall and Beal take them.

Porter's got it all to prove, but being able to do it in the playoffs bodes well for him. As for the others, Dudley had a huge influence on the Bucks last season, their fans were devastated to lose him. Anderson was probably Brooklyn's second best player in the playoffs against Atlanta, as cheap 3 & D options go he's as good as it gets. They also picked up Kelly Oubre in the draft - none of them are Pierce, but they do bring different skills.

Jordan Hill should start at centre for Indiana so I'm not sure where you are coming from talking about him as a floor spacer. He will be the guy patrolling the boards for Indiana with George at the four with Turner coming off the bench and that first rotation big man at either big man position. When Hill and Turner play together I'd expect Turner to be used as the floor spacer as something of Indiana's LaMarcus Aldridge equivalent as that big who stretches the floor more so than crashes the boards as Hill more so does.

If Indy start with a George/Hill frontline, they're going to get brutalised inside. Hill's strictly a third big, any team that starts him is asking for trouble.

George Karl is a terrible choice of coach for Cousins. Cousins needs to play in the half court - see record with Mike Malone. He turns over the basketball too much otherwise.

Rudy Gay on the other hand is best in a fast-break, open court game that doesn't get bogged down in half court play.But if you're convinced a fast pace will work for Sacramento. Then sure. Keep Gay.

Does Boogie need to play in the half-court though? He has enough handles, mobility and shooting range to hold his own in the open court one would think - it's not as if Shaq's Magic or Shaq's Lakers teams were coach by Mike Fratello, right?

On the other hand, one of Rudy's greatest assets is his ability to make a bucket on a broken possession. Doesn't mean he's not suited to an up-tempo style, but he's hardly a fish out of water in the half court either.

Perhaps look at it like this - did the Kings give Koufos $33 mil and use a high lottery pick on WCS just to have them both back-up Cousins? The inescapable conclusion is that they plan to play at least one, possibly both with Boogie. Otherwise they could've just drafted Mudiay, Johnson or Winslow.

 

[Knightmare]

Porter's got it all to prove, but being able to do it in the playoffs bodes well for him. As for the others, Dudley had a huge influence on the Bucks last season, their fans were devastated to lose him. Anderson was probably Brooklyn's second best player in the playoffs against Atlanta, as cheap 3 & D options go he's as good as it gets. They also picked up Kelly Oubre in the draft - none of them are Pierce, but they do bring different skills.



If Indy start with a George/Hill frontline, they're going to get brutalised inside. Hill's strictly a third big, any team that starts him is asking for trouble.



Does Boogie need to play in the half-court though? He has enough handles, mobility and shooting range to hold his own in the open court one would think - it's not as if Shaq's Magic or Shaq's Lakers teams were coach by Mike Fratello, right?

On the other hand, one of Rudy's greatest assets is his ability to make a bucket on a broken possession. Doesn't mean he's not suited to an up-tempo style, but he's hardly a fish out of water in the half court either.

Perhaps look at it like this - did the Kings give Koufos $33 mil and use a high lottery pick on WCS just to have them both back-up Cousins? The inescapable conclusion is that they plan to play at least one, possibly both with Boogie. Otherwise they could've just drafted Mudiay, Johnson or Winslow.

I do see Cousins as being that pure half court player and someone not suitable for faster player. You're completely right about his set of attributes. But his turnover numbers of 4.5 turnovers per 36 are just embarrassing. Additionally in the uptempo system Cousins' defence I've found from the eye-test suffers as he spends too much energy on offense when the tempo is higher.

With Gay I just watched too much of him at Memphis and how much better they've been since his departure in that system to have such a strong view of his game in the half court. And those Memphis teams never had great scorers. So the fact that he couldn't get it done on that team in the half court just doesn't make me think he can do it elsewhere.

The intent by Sacramento has all along been reported that Cauley-Stein will start alongside Cousins. The issue I see is with Cousins an inside scorer and Cauley-Stein only able to score on lobs and put-backs. That combination as defensively versatile as Cauley-Stein is, just won't work. Particularly in a team that wants to play up tempo. You can't have a 7 footer and a 6'11, 270 pound guy playing in that system. Let along just looking at that pairing in isolation. In modern basketball at least one of the two bigs needs to be able to hit perimeter shots. Cousins can hit some mid range jumpers, but he is a low-post scorer so Sacramento really aren't from a chemistry standpoint going to get much from any of that I'm not anticipating.

Koufos will be the backup big man and get those primary minutes off the bench. And he'll be solid enough. But as another 7 footer and not a guy who stretches the floor by position. That front court is not a front court I'd be comfortable playing with if I was a Kings fan.

As for Indy. I'm ok with Hill and George as a starting frontline. Maybe George moves back to the 3 and Turner ends up starting when they figure out their perimeter is too small to play that way from the get go. In the current NBA other than P.Gasol, Randolph, Griffen and a small few others. There aren't that many bigs that can punish someone like Hill for a lack of ability on the defensive end. It's mostly perimeter guys who hurt teams on the inside in the NBA today, so if Paul George, George Hill etc can limit penetration, Jordan Hill I'm ok with seeing start as someone who hits the boards and can score some even though I concede on the defensive end he is poor.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

I do see Cousins as being that pure half court player and someone not suitable for faster player. You're completely right about his set of attributes. But his turnover numbers of 4.5 turnovers per 36 are just embarrassing. Additionally in the uptempo system Cousins' defence I've found from the eye-test suffers as he spends too much energy on offense when the tempo is higher.

Agreed that you don't want Cousins in a full-blown track meet every night, it's not conducive to his longevity. I don't think he can be pigeon-holed as a low post brute though, his game goes far beyond that. To wit, yes his turnovers are really high (exacerbated by offensive fouls), but according to Karl he was the Kings' most naturally talented passer last season - he does have a decent court vision. John Wall had high turnover numbers too, but was second in the league in assists - he just played in a really congested offensive system. Ditto Boogie often last season - it's a matter of context with turnovers.

The intent by Sacramento has all along been reported that Cauley-Stein will start alongside Cousins. The issue I see is with Cousins an inside scorer and Cauley-Stein only able to score on lobs and put-backs. That combination as defensively versatile as Cauley-Stein is, just won't work. Particularly in a team that wants to play up tempo. You can't have a 7 footer and a 6'11, 270 pound guy playing in that system. Let along just looking at that pairing in isolation. In modern basketball at least one of the two bigs needs to be able to hit perimeter shots. Cousins can hit some mid range jumpers, but he is a low-post scorer so Sacramento really aren't from a chemistry standpoint going to get much from any of that I'm not anticipating.

Koufos will be the backup big man and get those primary minutes off the bench. And he'll be solid enough. But as another 7 footer and not a guy who stretches the floor by position. That front court is not a front court I'd be comfortable playing with if I was a Kings fan.

I don't particularly like the fit of Boogie & WCS together offensively either, particularly if you throw Rondo into the mix - I do think they're potentially an elite defensive pairing though. I suspect that Karl might run a lot of action through Boogie in the high post a la Marc Gasol or Webber/Divac.

Could Collison/McLemore/Gay/WCS/Boogie work offensively? The Kings ranked in the top half of the league offensively with that exact starting line-up last season, only substitute Jason Thompson for WCS.

As for Indy. I'm ok with Hill and George as a starting frontline. Maybe George moves back to the 3 and Turner ends up starting when they figure out their perimeter is too small to play that way from the get go. In the current NBA other than P.Gasol, Randolph, Griffen and a small few others. There aren't that many bigs that can punish someone like Hill for a lack of ability on the defensive end. It's mostly perimeter guys who hurt teams on the inside in the NBA today, so if Paul George, George Hill etc can limit penetration, Jordan Hill I'm ok with seeing start as someone who hits the boards and can score some even though I concede on the defensive end he is poor.

It's not just the big men you have to worry about defensively though, it's guard penetration - remember, Monta will be the starting two-guard, and he's a sieve defensively. If you start CJ Miles or Budinger at SF then it's even worse.

Take Orlando starting Vucevic & Frye/Harris together last season - the Magic actually had above-average defensive guards, but it mattered not because they were as soft as butter in the middle.

 

[Knightmare]

For those looking for an interesting hypothetical trade as it's never not trade season in the NBA.

What about:
Chicago get: Paul George
Indiana get: Joakim Noah, Tony Snell and Doug McDermott

Who says no first?

--
I can't help but like it for both teams.

The Bulls who can't accommodate both Gasol and Noah in the same front court get to find a way to start another combination with not insulting either by moving one or the other to the bench to start. Bobby Portis would gain minutes which he would struggle to get alongside Noah, Gasol, Gibson and Mirotic in that same front court. Then Paul George is an obvious upgrade on Dunleavy who can move to the bench and obviously over Snell and McDermott on what is a win now team.

On the other side of things it fixes up both of Indiana's problems with no sufficient front court defender, and Noah runs the defence and is that anchor inside. Then on the perimeter the Pacers would with McDermott get perimeter shooting and scoring they lack and in Snell another 3 point shooter and a long defensive specialist that they also lack with their combo guard focused back court.

Thoughts?

 

[Son of Skeletor]

For those looking for an interesting hypothetical trade as it's never not trade season in the NBA.

What about:
Chicago get: Paul George
Indiana get: Joakim Noah, Tony Snell and Doug McDermott

Who says no first?

Indy says no.

You only trade for Jo if you're on the verge of contention, and trading PG puts Indy right back to square one. I love Jo's game, but he'll age in dog years and will be out of contract soon IIRC. McDermott's still pretty much an unknown quantity, and Snell doesn't move the needle much.

The Pacers would also be fried by their own fans if they traded George - they'd only do it if they were convinced he'll never fully recover from his injuries. Health willing he's one of the few untouchables in the league. He's a two-way player, and they're the easiest to build around.

 

[Knightmare]

Indy says no.

You only trade for Jo if you're on the verge of contention, and trading PG puts Indy right back to square one. I love Jo's game, but he'll age in dog years and will be out of contract soon IIRC. McDermott's still pretty much an unknown quantity, and Snell doesn't move the needle much.

The Pacers would also be fried by their own fans if they traded George - they'd only do it if they were convinced he'll never fully recover from his injuries. Health willing he's one of the few untouchables in the league. He's a two-way player, and they're the easiest to build around.

It's an interesting one.

Joakim Noah finished 4th in the 2013-14 MVP voting. Paul George 9th.

Noah in 2014-2015 had a poor season and lost his movement struggling on his return from knee surgery. All reports suggest that he has that energy, swagger and movement completely back from training camp reports. It will be interesting to see how badly or otherwise he ages. He is very much an activity and energy guy. But injuries permitting he'll put in the work to continue producing which bigs can generally do deeper into their careers than perimeter players.

George through 2014-2015 did the ACL. But George similarly based on that first game back at least in looking at some footage also looked pretty well right. He is younger so that is where his advantage is and you're right he is the better two way player given unlike Noah he can score some buckets.

I expect both teams would improve their records by making this trade as a move that would cover the weaknesses and fix up the rotations of both teams but at the end of the day I expect you're right about the age demographic and even more so the Pacers not being a contending team those big reasons for them not likely wanting Noah.

 

[nahnah]

Great start by the cavs even though dropped game one, Mo Williams and Richard Jefferson have been welcomed additions. The bench is looking a heap better than last season, cunningham is up and down as expected from a guy with less than 50 NBA games. Lebron has started slow.. which is pleasing given the results. Kyrie and Shump out atm also. Looking forward to the Miami game.
Bulls out played the cavs but still almost got the win was a positive sign. Memphis simply did not rock up to play basketball, could not buy a bucket in the first 15 mins of the game. They seem to match up horrendously with the cavs, blown out twice last year also.

Pelicans are struggling, they have a few(possibly a lot?) outs but they haven't even been competitive yet. Portland jumped them big time. Already doubting my 6th man choice because Collison will be starting very soon haha.

 

[Knightmare]

Great start by the cavs even though dropped game one, Mo Williams and Richard Jefferson have been welcomed additions. The bench is looking a heap better than last season, cunningham is up and down as expected from a guy with less than 50 NBA games. Lebron has started slow.. which is pleasing given the results. Kyrie and Shump out atm also. Looking forward to the Miami game.
Bulls out played the cavs but still almost got the win was a positive sign. Memphis simply did not rock up to play basketball, could not buy a bucket in the first 15 mins of the game. They seem to match up horrendously with the cavs, blown out twice last year also.

Pelicans are struggling, they have a few(possibly a lot?) outs but they haven't even been competitive yet. Portland jumped them big time. Already doubting my 6th man choice because Collison will be starting very soon haha.

LeBron is really struggling with his back. I saw the highlights and they showed LeBron every time he was on the bench having his back stretched. It is possible LeBron has exited his prime? It will make for interesting viewing. I like for the Cavs how Kevin Love offensively has been much more involved. I've been surprised that Jefferson and Cunningham made the Cavs roster. LeBron needs some help on the wings but I'm not sure either are the answers. Richard Jefferson the past seven years has looked finished. Impressive first two games but I can't see him maintaining his current play over the course of the season. Cunningham likewise is a curious addition. He has struggled having played on good teams and has been unable to get minutes.
I think the Cavs probably need to get trading. Trade Varajao for a wing player. Use those Haywood and Miller trade exceptions to add talent from teams looking to unload players.
Mo Williams though I agree with you on is a good backup point and a good addition as someone who can play off the ball and catch and shoot some 3s which works perfectly with LeBron.

Anthony Davis on opening night is said to have gotten caught up in the MVP talk. Game 2 he settled. He just doesn't have much of a supporting cast with those guys always hurt. The Pelicans also really need to shake up that roster and get some better fitting pieces. Build around Davis and Holiday and move those other name players for some better compliments and guys with better durability.

 

[nahnah]

LeBron is really struggling with his back. I saw the highlights and they showed LeBron every time he was on the bench having his back stretched. It is possible LeBron has exited his prime? It will make for interesting viewing. I like for the Cavs how Kevin Love offensively has been much more involved. I've been surprised that Jefferson and Cunningham made the Cavs roster. LeBron needs some help on the wings but I'm not sure either are the answers. Richard Jefferson the past seven years has looked finished. Impressive first two games but I can't see him maintaining his current play over the course of the season. Cunningham likewise is a curious addition. He has struggled having played on good teams and has been unable to get minutes.
I think the Cavs probably need to get trading. Trade Varajao for a wing player. Use those Haywood and Miller trade exceptions to add talent from teams looking to unload players.
Mo Williams though I agree with you on is a good backup point and a good addition as someone who can play off the ball and catch and shoot some 3s which works perfectly with LeBron.

Anthony Davis on opening night is said to have gotten caught up in the MVP talk. Game 2 he settled. He just doesn't have much of a supporting cast with those guys always hurt. The Pelicans also really need to shake up that roster and get some better fitting pieces. Build around Davis and Holiday and move those other name players for some better compliments and guys with better durability.

Jefferson fits in much better than Marion, he can make a high % of open 3's, he is good enough on a fast break and is a decent defender. When Shump comes back I think JR will lose minutes and Jefferson keeps his 15-18 a game. Jefferson is shooting 69% from the field and 71% from 3 so far this season and was also shooting well in preseason. Obviously those numbers will drop but if he can stay at around 45-48% from 3 then he has a lot of value for the cavs. Cunningham is purely depth whilst Irving is out, right now he is getting mins ahead of Harris. When Irving and Shump come back Cunningham will be out of the rotation very quickly.
LeBron in my opinion has peaked, probably peaked a few years ago. I still rate him as the second best player behind Curry though.

The Warriors look very good, Curry is just incredible. The shots he makes every game...insane.

 

[nahnah]

For what it's worth Jefferson has shot above 40% on 3's in 5 of the past 6 seasons, he shot 43% last season. I think he can improve that with more open looks at the cavs

 

[Knightmare]

Now that the NBA season has started and I've caught up with roster changes and whatnot I will have a better attempt at my season predictions.

MVP: Stephen Curry (Expecting GSW finish with best record again and I don't see anyone catching up)
Runner up: Russell Westbrook (Even with KD back he will continue dominating the ball and putting up big numbers, with the difference this season being OKC will have a probable best 1-2 record in the West).

Coach of the year: Stan Van Gundy (Detroit I feel have a strong chance at exceeding expectation with Andre Drummond only sure to continue his improvement on the inside and to be freed up not competing for boards with Monroe. Jackson is a good PG. Stanley Johnson as a rookie can go well. And they have some floor spacers and stretch 4s. So I think that team suits Van Gundy well and they can make the playoffs and surprise some)
Runner up: George Karl (He may be good enough to get the Kings into the playoffs and with Cousins in the middle and Rondo on a one year deal sure to want to prove a point, I give them a shot)
Special mentions: In the mix: I also feel Scott Skiles for Orlando will help give them a kick along and Terry Stotts for Portland is another who I can see entering the mix with that team cleared out and perhaps surprising with Aldridge not taking all those long 2s and the floor opening up some.

Rookie of the year: I've backed Karl Anthony-Towns in to be the best rookie in this draft class. Initially I wasn't expected immediate performance, but I'm going to back the big fella in. It is clear he will get the minutes and get utilised enough on offense so I think he can get the job done.
Runner up: Emmanual Mudiay (he'll start and run the offense and do well so he is probably that next most likely).
Special mentions: Montrezl Harrell for Houston looks good when on the floor and I see him as a real dark horse for in the race for ROY as a really good defensive guy who also scores efficiently. And not that he will get many minutes this season but Bobby Portis may be the second best rookie in this draft class after Towns and is someone to watch later in the season if one of the Bulls bigs get hurt or traded.

Most improved: CJ McCollum (with Aldridge out of that Portland offense and with that team dismantled I see McCollum playing a substantial role on offense and getting some big scoring opportunities as a good second scorer alongside Lillard).
Runner up: Robert Covington (He can score buckets and make outside shots. Without much scoring power on the 76ers roster I think he'll run the show and be that second genuine contender).

Defensive player of the year: Rudy Gobert (he was the best defender in the game last season and I feel will finally this season receive that recognition with a full season as a starter now that he doesn't have to compete with minutes for Kanter as he did through the first half of last season. Gobert protects the rim like no one else with his length, timing of blocks and ability to not foul. He is special on that end of the floor and can win x5 DPOY awards)
Runner up: Anthony Davis (Likely not an MVP contender with the Pelicans supporting cast not good or healthy enough, so likely will get some votes here)
Special mentions: Draymond Green and Kawhi Leonard also deserve great kudos for their play on the defensive end and should be those others in the mix. Nerlens Noel is also a near all-league level defender but playing for the 76ers won't attract any votes.

Sixth man of the year: Tristian Thompson (I expect Thompson plays basically starter minutes and spends lots of time playing alongside Love this season, even if he starts on the bench. He'll get his boards and hopefully is the first of a new generation of sixth men as a genuine big)
Runner up: Enes Kanter (Again another big but with minutes off the bench, he'll get boards firstly and when Durant and Westbrook get minutes off the floor you can run an offense through this guy. So he should get votes)
Special mentions: Manu Ginobili, Joakim Noah, Jeremy Lin and Andre Iguodala can all get among the votes.


As for NBA regular season standings:
1. Golden State
2. OKC Thunder
3. LA Clippers
4. Houston
5. Cleveland
6. San Antonio
7. Miami
8. Memphis
9. Washington
10. Chicago
11. Atlanta
12. Milwaukee
13. Detroit
14. Toronto
15. New Orleans
16. Sacramento
17. Portland
18. Orlando
19. Utah
20. Charlotte
21. Indiana
22. Denver
23. Phoenix
24. Boston
25. New York
26. Dallas
27. Brooklyn
28. Minnesota
29. LA Lakers
30. Philadelphia

--
Playoff outcomes:

East finals:
Cleveland v Chicago (Cleveland win)

West finals:
Golden State v OKC Thunder (Golden State win)

Finals:
Golden State v Cleveland (Golden State win again)
*Stephen Curry MVP Finals.

 

[nahnah]

Curry is on another level, he makes long contested 3's too easily.

 

[wicksy]

I'll start..... West and East predictions as well as Champions & MVP.

West
1. San Antonio Spurs
2. LA Clippers
3. Golden State Warriors
4. Oklahoma Thunder
5. New Orleans Pelicans
6. Houston Rockets
7. Phoenix Suns
8. Memphis Grizzlies

East
1. Cleveland Cavaliers
2. Toronto Raptors
3. Atlanta Hawks
4. Chicago Bulls
5. Washington Wizards
6. Miami Heat
7. Indiana Pacers
8. Milwaukee Bucks

Champions
LA Clippers

Runners Up
Cleveland Cavaliers

MVP
Anthony Davis

I really should have stuck with my gut and gone Blake Griffin as MVP. The bloke is a monster... Keeps this up and he becomes more influential to his team than LBJ.

 

[Knightmare]

Curry is on another level, he makes long contested 3's too easily.

Curry is playing freakish basketball to open the season. The Pelican's lack of good perimeter defence with AD often defending Curry out on the perimeter has helped with that. That extreme level of production won't continue, but this does early days look like an even better season by Curry looming which will make for an incredible viewing spectacle.

I really should have stuck with my gut and gone Blake Griffin as MVP. The bloke is a monster... Keeps this up and he becomes more influential to his team than LBJ.

He is certainly putting up some big scoring numbers early days. It's not out of the question Griffen averages 25ppg this season which may only by position is pretty great and would based on my early guestimate be second to Anthony Davis who in New Orleans' new ridiculously fast offense where he for the first time in his career is getting utilised I have getting his average up to more like 27ppg.

With Griffin, while Harden as a still poor defender was an MVP candidate I'm just not as sure. Griffin on the offensive end is terrific as a finisher, he has learnt to shoot and he is an excellent passing big also. Just the other end of the ball is where I'm less excited about what Blake offers. While DeAndre Jordan cleans up the boards and gets all those block shots, Griffen just doesn't have any influence with his rebound numbers very ordinary by position given his size and athleticism, and the same story with his block shots being poor every season which for a guy with that athletic ability again should not be the case. So I'm not so confident Griffen wins the MVP, particularly with Golden State and OKC Thunder looking like they'll run away with the best record.

As an aside, I'm finding it interesting out West how many teams/players/coaches/owners etc hate the Clippers and more particularly this current Clippers group and just as many hating Griffen. It seems like all the teams out West, with Golden State for a few years there starting that off, and DeMarcus Cousins most recently expressing his dislike for the Clippers and Griffen.
I don't get why. But I find it interesting anyway.