Opinion The NBA Thread

[Knightmare]

Also as some further on why I really like the Spurs this year.

The Warriors go without saying having only lost the 2 games so far.

But the Spurs have been unbeaten at home firstly, secondly they have the highest scoring margin differential through 37 games in NBA history see link: http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016...cord-for-best-scoring-margin-through-37-games

Just watching both the Warriors and Spurs this season. They're both historically special teams. So special even you could have an All Star game featuring the Spurs and Warriors v everyone else, and frankly I'd back the Warriors and Spurs to beat the best of the other 28 teams.

It's overall a really interesting time in the NBA with so many teams with such special star power. Golden State, San Antonio, Cleveland, OKC, LA in the Clippers have one pretty good group and Chicago also have some good pieces.

 

[nahnah]

Also as some further on why I really like the Spurs this year.

The Warriors go without saying having only lost the 2 games so far.

But the Spurs have been unbeaten at home firstly, secondly they have the highest scoring margin differential through 37 games in NBA history see link: http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016...cord-for-best-scoring-margin-through-37-games

Just watching both the Warriors and Spurs this season. They're both historically special teams. So special even you could have an All Star game featuring the Spurs and Warriors v everyone else, and frankly I'd back the Warriors and Spurs to beat the best of the other 28 teams.

It's overall a really interesting time in the NBA with so many teams with such special star power. Golden State, San Antonio, Cleveland, OKC, LA in the Clippers have one pretty good group and Chicago also have some good pieces.

Have the Spurs played cavs, warriors or okc yet?

 

[Knightmare]

Have the Spurs played cavs, warriors or okc yet?

Spurs played OKC on opening night. Will be fun to see the Spurs matchup against some of the better teams though.

 

[wicksy]

This season with Redick I am willing to concede that he is playing like a starter. It helps having CP3, Griffen who is a great passer by position then Griffen and Jordan both are threats at the rim, so there is plenty of space for Redick and easy opportunities. But with his percentages and making a high enough total number of 3s I'll this year consider Redick to be of starting quality.

As for Stephenson and Smith. There are several things that could be done, and I expect it will depend on the teams record by the trade deadline and whether the team thing that they can contend.

If the Clippers feel they're out of contention and just want to salary dump both, seeing them as distractions, or just not being able to move either in a suitable deal. It would be pretty easy for Cleveland to offer the trade exceptions for Haywood and Miller to take both of your hands.

For an actual trade getting something back. Maybe Indiana given they're the only team to have had any success with Stephenson. They have so many combo guards that maybe they consider a trade of Monta Ellis for Stephenson and Smith. Ellis's scoring numbers are down this year, and it seems mostly due to just not being a good fit, so he may be someone who could be had if a pick is added. Otherwise of the two it's just Smith I see as being pretty movable with an OKC, Cleveland, Miami or Houston some teams I could see as willing to trade for him in exchange for one of their reserves on a minimum contract. Amare Stoudemire, Jason Terry, Gerald Green or Marcus Thornton would be about as good as I could see the Clippers doing with Smith in the situation that one of these teams has a particular interest in Smith.

Why so extremely down on Smith? His FG% is poor and he jacks up 3s he shouldn't but is there a problem further to this with Smith this year? His blocks, steals and rebounds per 36min are all strong and without having watched much of the Clippers this year I would have considered him to be underutilised (feel free to educate me no what Smith is doing/not doing as I just haven't been watching the Clippers this year given the teams poor record).

Smith wouldn't be averaging over 4 minutes in past 8 or 9 games and has completely fallen out of the rotation in favour of Aldrich.
It's hard to pin point an exact reason but his struggles on offence would be likely.

He may fit back into a 2nd unit now though with Austin and Jamal scoring at will.... I guess we'll see when Blake gets back what Doc does to the rotations.

 

[Knightmare]

Off-topic.

But I'd love to see a matchup of a combined team of the Spurs and Warriors v an All Star team made up of players from the other 28 teams.

It would be incredible seeing a matchup of:
Spurs + Warriors:
C: Tim Duncan
PF: Draymond Green
SF: Kawhi Leonard
SG: Klay Thompson
PG: Steph Curry
BENCH:
Andrew Bogut
LaMarcus Aldridge
David West
Harrison Barnes
Andre Iguodala
Danny Green
Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker

v
Everyone else:
C: Andre Drummond
PF: LeBron James
SF: Paul George
SG: Kevin Durant
PG: Russell Westbrook
BENCH:
Pau Gasol
DeMarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Dirk Nowitzki
Blake Griffen
Carmelo Anthony
Jimmy Butler
James Harden
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul

I've given the "everyone else" team another two on their bench with that whole group filled with all stars as guys who I feel all should make the all star game on performance this year.

In this matchup I'd take the Warriors/Spurs team. Star power is nice and generally overcomes, but in this case I just have such a strong respect for the 3pt shooting and floor spacing more generally, the unselfish and willing ball movement across the board with the intent to find the best shot every trip up the floor, then defensively they're also superior. So I'd give the Warriors/Spurs the points on both ends of the floor. It would be such an appealing style of basketball.

I'd be interested to hear how nuts you guys thinks I am for feeling this way. But having Popovich coaching that team, with Steve Kerr and Luke Walton as assistants. That's a team that would go 82-0 through a season with that group.

Just the sheer space that Curry would create. Close in on Curry and he'll dish it to Green who can make plays in his own right and find Thompson who would be looking to get open, or Leonard who has hit his open 3s off the catch and shoot this year, or Duncan or Aldridge down low who with the space created would get so many easy buckets. It would be an incredible team.

 

[nahnah]

Off-topic.

But I'd love to see a matchup of a combined team of the Spurs and Warriors v an All Star team made up of players from the other 28 teams.

It would be incredible seeing a matchup of:
Spurs + Warriors:
C: Tim Duncan
PF: Draymond Green
SF: Kawhi Leonard
SG: Klay Thompson
PG: Steph Curry
BENCH:
Andrew Bogut
LaMarcus Aldridge
David West
Harrison Barnes
Andre Iguodala
Danny Green
Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker

v
Everyone else:
C: Andre Drummond
PF: LeBron James
SF: Paul George
SG: Kevin Durant
PG: Russell Westbrook
BENCH:
Pau Gasol
DeMarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Dirk Nowitzki
Blake Griffen
Carmelo Anthony
Jimmy Butler
James Harden
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul

I've given the "everyone else" team another two on their bench with that whole group filled with all stars as guys who I feel all should make the all star game on performance this year.

In this matchup I'd take the Warriors/Spurs team. Star power is nice and generally overcomes, but in this case I just have such a strong respect for the 3pt shooting and floor spacing more generally, the unselfish and willing ball movement across the board with the intent to find the best shot every trip up the floor, then defensively they're also superior. So I'd give the Warriors/Spurs the points on both ends of the floor. It would be such an appealing style of basketball.

I'd be interested to hear how nuts you guys thinks I am for feeling this way. But having Popovich coaching that team, with Steve Kerr and Luke Walton as assistants. That's a team that would go 82-0 through a season with that group.

Just the sheer space that Curry would create. Close in on Curry and he'll dish it to Green who can make plays in his own right and find Thompson who would be looking to get open, or Leonard who has hit his open 3s off the catch and shoot this year, or Duncan or Aldridge down low who with the space created would get so many easy buckets. It would be an incredible team.

Interesting concept, I would say the all star team would win though as both teams would lack chemistry. Despite the Warriors/Spurs team having some chemistry given half the players have played with each other I think the large talent gap would be too much but then again I don't think a game like that would ever be played seriously. Having said that if they were to play a playoff like series I do expect that combo team to win at least one game. probably a 4-2 win to the all star team.

I doubt they would go 82-0 as at some point during the season they would have an off game or rest players. Talent wise they could but I doubt it.

Any particular reason you left out Diaw? He's a very good play maker that does at times over pass but is capable of knocking down open shots. I would take Bogut off and replace with Diaw

Edit: Diaw over Bogut and West imo

For the all star team replace Dirk, Gasol and Wade with Bosh, Jordan and Irving/Lowry

 

[nahnah]

Anyways my all star weekend line up would look like this (for the all star teams I'm not sure of exact number on ennch but I'm just gonna pick 7 bench players because that would be my guess how many they have)

East:
Irving
Lowry
Lebron
George
Drummond

Bench:
Lowry
Bosh
Wade
Butler
Thomas
Wall
Gasol

Bad luck: Derozan, Melo

West:
Curry
Westbrook
Durant
Davis
Cousins

Bench:
Harden
Jordan
Paul
Green
Griffin
Leonard
Lillard

Bad luck: knight, rondo, Thompson

3 pt shootout:
Curry, klay, Bellineli, Reddick, Galloway, Durant

Dunk contest:
Westbrook, Wiggins, Lavine, bazemore, oladipo

 

[Knightmare]

Interesting concept, I would say the all star team would win though as both teams would lack chemistry. Despite the Warriors/Spurs team having some chemistry given half the players have played with each other I think the large talent gap would be too much but then again I don't think a game like that would ever be played seriously. Having said that if they were to play a playoff like series I do expect that combo team to win at least one game. probably a 4-2 win to the all star team.

I doubt they would go 82-0 as at some point during the season they would have an off game or rest players. Talent wise they could but I doubt it.

Any particular reason you left out Diaw? He's a very good play maker that does at times over pass but is capable of knocking down open shots. I would take Bogut off and replace with Diaw

Edit: Diaw over Bogut and West imo

For the all star team replace Dirk, Gasol and Wade with Bosh, Jordan and Irving/Lowry

Diaw is a good component. Not Bogut or West good in my view. Those guys are starter quality players whereas Diaw is more just a good reserve who really needs to be used in a very specific way in order to be effective (which is why he works at the Spurs because they give him his touches). I'd also have Ezeli ahead of Diaw. Diaw is a great passer for a big, and he's a big body. But otherwise there isn't any other particular thing he is outstanding in. Ok scorer, rebounder and defender without being fantastic in any of those areas. He is just a rare big with guard skills with that being his point of difference. Expand the roster to 15 and Ezeli and Diaw would be on that team.

It would be interesting to see how that group would be used in terms of resting. When? If? The 76ers and Lakers would be the obvious teams where you could manage groups of the players against. But say you want to give Steph and D.Green a game off. Aldridge and Parker go straight into the starting lineup. So no matter how that team is formatted, they've got two teams worth of starters for any absences not to matter big picture.

Of those recommended all star team alternative players I'd give you Bosh over Dirk given Bosh has improved from 3 point range counteracting any offensive advantage Dirk would have had in the past, and the advantage with Bosh is better ability on the defensive end and on the boards. DeAndre Jordan would be a possible chemistry decision over Gasol given he would be a defender/rebounder who would be able to finish pretty easily off lobs, and doesn't need the touches on offense, but on current performance I favour Pau with his rebounding and rim defense good in his own right but then he has the elite scoring game of any big in the game and the ability from the line to convert his chances making him down the stretch probably my preferred big of any. Wade v any of the point guards and Wall should be in any discussion Irving is, I'd personally still favour Wade on current performance as a guard who plays taller than his height and while he doesn't have a 3pt shot can do a few more things, has some extra experience, the better chemistry with LeBron and Bosh if he is to be included. I'd also say with LeBron, Harden and all these guys who want to handle the ball as much as possible further point guards beyond just Westbrook and Paul aren't needed unless they're supreme catch and shoot 3pt shooters which none of Irving/Wall/Lowry are with Irving great from 3pt range but more so off the dribble which isn't as useful paired with so many ball handlers.
The awkward thing I find with a team of stars such as this one is they're just such ill-fitting components. Having potentially LeBron, Harden then a point guard on the floor at the same time would be terrible. They all want to handle the ball. Then you've got Melo, Harden, George, Westbrook etc who aren't ball movers. LeBron while a great passer holds up the ball. So while the names sound great, it's so much hero ball and isos due to the nature of the guys playing that unless they played a 3 seconds or less style offense where everyone plays hot potato with the ball, I just can't see that team matching up well with the Warriors/Spurs who in their own right have all star game starting quality players starting and high level starters coming off the bench but critically with that mix of 3pt shooting, unselfish ball movement and defense everywhere that seems to me to be the winning formula.

 

[nahnah]

Knightmare i would like you to answer this for me.

Love in one corner, JR in the other. Kyrie ball handler, Lebron setting the pick. How do you defend that and why don't the cavs ever run it?its such a simple play but would be super effective


Also going back to your discussion on JJ Redick the other day, he's known for poor defense but I saw some statistics the other day that show he rates as on of the best wing defenders in the NBA this season

 

[Knightmare]

Anyways my all star weekend line up would look like this (for the all star teams I'm not sure of exact number on ennch but I'm just gonna pick 7 bench players because that would be my guess how many they have)

East:
Irving
Lowry
Lebron
George
Drummond

Bench:
Lowry
Bosh
Wade
Butler
Thomas
Wall
Gasol

Bad luck: Derozan, Melo

West:
Curry
Westbrook
Durant
Davis
Cousins

Bench:
Harden
Jordan
Paul
Green
Griffin
Leonard
Lillard

Bad luck: knight, rondo, Thompson

3 pt shootout:
Curry, klay, Bellineli, Reddick, Galloway, Durant

Dunk contest:
Westbrook, Wiggins, Lavine, bazemore, oladipo

As for my preferred all star teams:

I'm just going to ignore the fans. What would they know?

East:
C: Andre Drummond
PF: LeBron James
SF: Paul George
SG: Jimmy Butler
PG: Dwyane Wade
BENCH:
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Paul Millsap
Carmelo Anthony
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
Reggie Jackson

With apologies to: John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Al Horford, Hassan Whiteside.

West:
C: Draymond Green
PF: Kevin Durant
SF: Kawhi Leonard
SG: Klay Thompson
PG: Steph Curry
BENCH:
DeMarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Blake Griffen
Kobe Bryant
James Harden
Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul

With apologies to: Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Jordan, Derrick Favors, Damian Lillard, Dwight Howard.

--- My preferred choices --
3pt: (I'd like to see the stars in this one more so than the general 3pt specialists)
Curry
K.Thompson
Durant
P.George
Leonard
Irving

Dunk contest: (Stars in a dunk contest is a waste of time as they probably won't put in the time, but these guys could put on a show)
LaVine
L.Nance JR
G.Green
A.Gordon

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare i would like you to answer this for me.

Love in one corner, JR in the other. Kyrie ball handler, Lebron setting the pick. How do you defend that and why don't the cavs ever run it?its such a simple play but would be super effective

That's a pretty common action the Cavs play, and there are variations on this used regular in games last season and this season.

The other team would play tight enough on Love, JR, Kyrie, have someone else staying in front of LeBron then having a big standing in the middle prepared for penetration assuming the Cavs 5th guy isn't a great shooter (eg. Thompson). Or if it's say Williams/Jones/Jefferson or some other perimeter shooter then someone else takes them on the perimeter and the big stays in front of LeBron.

It can be defended regardless of the combination used by the Cavs but certainly an effective play that can be and is used in games given the personnel. And that floor spacing only makes it easier for LeBron and Kyrie to get to the rim at will. Against more versatile front lines is where I see that kind of playing getting unstuck. V the Bulls as a top of mind example. Noah and Taj Gibson or even Bobby Portis are good enough to switch, then there is Jimmy Butler. So have any two or three of those guys and the Bulls can prevent an open look on that play. But against an Indiana or Milwaukee by contrast defensively I could see them having trouble with this type of play as there isn't the rim defence to stop LeBron or Kyrie from getting to the hoop. So like any play, you use it more against teams with personnel that it will cause problems to.

 

[wicksy]

 

[nahnah]

Cavs v Spurs on Friday, Spurs ona 9 win streak, cavs on an 8 win streak. Should be a good game, hoping Kyrie can score 57 again(should be easy) and cavs win

 

[wicksy]

Cavs v Spurs on Friday, Spurs ona 9 win streak, cavs on an 8 win streak. Should be a good game, hoping Kyrie can score 57 again(should be easy) and cavs win

Will be a cracker but would think Spurs too strong.... Happy to be proven wrong though.

 

[nahnah]

Cavaliers with Kyrie Irving on the court this season

Off effic: 118.5
Net effic: +17.0

Both would be best in the NBA for the entire season

Alas only a 10 game span, I have a feeling Spurs will win on Friday but still back cavs ina series

 

[spartan-magpie]

Surely you NBA watchers have been watching the Greek freak start to come into his own?


On a serious note what do you guys think giannis antetokounmpo? Wouldn't mind him as a chf for the lies if it doesn't work out for him...

 

[Knightmare]

Surely you NBA watchers have been watching the Greek freak start to come into his own?


On a serious note what do you guys think giannis antetokounmpo? Wouldn't mind him as a chf for the lies if it doesn't work out for him...

There are a lot of guys in the NBA who would look great in the AFL.

Giannis will continue to improve and can be one of the better small forwards in the NBA without being LeBron/KD/Paul George great as that next tier of talent down which is still pretty great.

 

[nahnah]

West
1. Golden State Warriors
2. Oklahoma City
3. L.A Clippers
4. San Antonio Spurs
5. Memphis Grizzlies
6. Houston Rockets
7. New Orleans Pelicans
8. Sacramento Kings

East
1. Cleveland Cavaliers
2. Chicago Bulls
3. Atlanta Hawks
4. Indiana Pacers
5. Milwaukee Bucks
6. Miami Heat
7. Toronto Raptors
8. Detroit Pistons

Champions
Cleveland Cavaliers

Runners Up
Oklahoma City

MVP
Kevin Durant

MIP:
Bradley Beal

ROY
D'Angelo Russell

6th Man:
Darren Collison ( this award is almost impossible to pick)

DPOY:
Anthony Davis

Just awful

 

[wicksy]

Dunno what they're bitching about.... Got a player with the highest upside in the draft.
Terrible team anyway.... They have a lot more to cry about.

Every now and then, I can actually say something of value haha


EDIT: In reference to NYK fans bitching about the Porzingas selection

 

[wicksy]

Just awful

Not as awful as mine although I didn't actually do too badly in the East!!!

West
1. San Antonio Spurs (1 away)
2. LA Clippers (2 away)
3. Golden State Warriors (2 away)
4. Oklahoma Thunder (1 away)
5. New Orleans Pelicans (DAFUQ..... 9 away)
6. Houston Rockets (1 away)
7. Phoenix Suns (DAFUQx2..... 5 away)
8. Memphis Grizzlies (2 away)

Score: 23 (0 being perfect)

East
1. Cleveland Cavaliers (tick)
2. Toronto Raptors (tick)
3. Atlanta Hawks (1 away)
4. Chicago Bulls (1 away)
5. Washington Wizards (Big miss.... 6 away)
6. Miami Heat (tick)
7. Indiana Pacers (2 away)
8. Milwaukee Bucks (5 away)

Score: 15



You killed them both.... 14 away in the west and 16 away in the east. Pelicans and Bucks killed us!!

 

[nahnah]

Not as awful as mine although I didn't actually do too badly in the East!!!

West
1. San Antonio Spurs (1 away)
2. LA Clippers (2 away)
3. Golden State Warriors (2 away)
4. Oklahoma Thunder (1 away)
5. New Orleans Pelicans (DAFUQ..... 9 away)
6. Houston Rockets (1 away)
7. Phoenix Suns (DAFUQx2..... 5 away)
8. Memphis Grizzlies (2 away)

Score: 23 (0 being perfect)

East
1. Cleveland Cavaliers (tick)
2. Toronto Raptors (tick)
3. Atlanta Hawks (1 away)
4. Chicago Bulls (1 away)
5. Washington Wizards (Big miss.... 6 away)
6. Miami Heat (tick)
7. Indiana Pacers (2 away)
8. Milwaukee Bucks (5 away)

Score: 15



You killed them both.... 14 away in the west and 16 away in the east. Pelicans and Bucks killed us!!

My prediction for the awards were terrible haha

 

[spartan-magpie]

There are a lot of guys in the NBA who would look great in the AFL.

Giannis will continue to improve and can be one of the better small forwards in the NBA without being LeBron/KD/Paul George great as that next tier of talent down which is still pretty great.

Are you excited about thon maker and Simmons? I've heard some people say that thon looks like to be the best thing since sliced bread..

 

[Knightmare]

Are you excited about thon maker and Simmons? I've heard some people say that thon looks like to be the best thing since sliced bread..

They both look seriously good and they may go down as Australia's two greatest ever basketball players, and certainly at the NBA level look quite likely to be. So it's a really exciting time for Australian basketball.

Simmons continues to get compared to LeBron. He isn't LeBron, but he is LeBronesque in a lot of the things he can do. Simmons is very uncomfortable shooting from outside 15 feet (though LeBron couldn't shoot all that well early days either) and doesn't have nearly the power/strength of a LeBron or that same finishing/dunking ability of an early career LeBron. Otherwise he is pretty close. At 6'10 he has LeBron's handle and playmaking/passing ability. He moves fluidly and easily at that height as you'd say of a Kevin Durant. Very athletic rebounder and has excellent rebound numbers at the College level, but physically can get knocked off the boards which I expect stops him from being a dominant rebounder in the NBA. Excellent numbers across the board and among the best in College Basketball which is pretty great and unusual for a Sophomore (first year). At either the small forward or power forward, he can be one of the very best by position in the NBA and best 1-4 in the game quality at either position.

Thon Maker I haven't seen a full game of, but have seen plenty of footage and feels like something inbetween Kevin Durant and Kevin Garnett in terms of skillset and body size/shape. Maker is already at least 7'1 and is still growing so may end up 7'2 or 7'3 for all I know. Movement is very fluent and has guard like skills and some mid range and even some limited 3pt shooting ability as a real modern finesse big man. Very long and thin and lacks size so he can be bullied by stronger guys down low. But athletic enough to block shots and hit the boards pretty well. Like Simmons while not as certain, also has the ability to be a number one overall selection. How great can he be? At the center he could be a best 1-5 player in the NBA if things go right and he continues his development as he has tracked in the past few years. But still too early to be as certain given he is still in high school.

 

[spartan-magpie]

They both look seriously good and they may go down as Australia's two greatest ever basketball players, and certainly at the NBA level look quite likely to be. So it's a really exciting time for Australian basketball.

Simmons continues to get compared to LeBron. He isn't LeBron, but he is LeBronesque in a lot of the things he can do. Simmons is very uncomfortable shooting from outside 15 feet (though LeBron couldn't shoot all that well early days either) and doesn't have nearly the power/strength of a LeBron or that same finishing/dunking ability of an early career LeBron. Otherwise he is pretty close. At 6'10 he has LeBron's handle and playmaking/passing ability. He moves fluidly and easily at that height as you'd say of a Kevin Durant. Very athletic rebounder and has excellent rebound numbers at the College level, but physically can get knocked off the boards which I expect stops him from being a dominant rebounder in the NBA. Excellent numbers across the board and among the best in College Basketball which is pretty great and unusual for a Sophomore (first year). At either the small forward or power forward, he can be one of the very best by position in the NBA and best 1-4 in the game quality at either position.

Thon Maker I haven't seen a full game of, but have seen plenty of footage and feels like something inbetween Kevin Durant and Kevin Garnett in terms of skillset and body size/shape. Maker is already at least 7'1 and is still growing so may end up 7'2 or 7'3 for all I know. Movement is very fluent and has guard like skills and some mid range and even some limited 3pt shooting ability as a real modern finesse big man. Very long and thin and lacks size so he can be bullied by stronger guys down low. But athletic enough to block shots and hit the boards pretty well. Like Simmons while not as certain, also has the ability to be a number one overall selection. How great can he be? At the center he could be a best 1-5 player in the NBA if things go right and he continues his development as he has tracked in the past few years. But still too early to be as certain given he is still in high school.

I'm not a big NBA man, I haven't been since my beloved Karl Malone left Utah... I do still watch the odd game and play offs or if Lebron or some Aussies are playing.

We are gonna have e decent boomers team over the next half decade or so.

P.s I love your replies. So in depth and so informed. On all levels.


I cant wait till you get a gig for the pies (or other team, but hopefully pies)in recruiting. You better PM us some mail when you do.

 

[nahnah]

Kyrie is struggling badly on both ends.. He needs to have a better second half or the Spurs will get on top