Opinion The NBA Thread

[sirlothie]

Woahhhh...... NahNah cancelled his account? What the hell happened there?!

That sucks. Hopefully he comes back otherwise its nahnah nahnah nahnah yeah yeah yeah goodbye.....

 

[TradeDraft]

With the 76ers having the number 1 pick.

I bet Simmons hopes he does NOT go Number 1 pick.

No one would want to go the 76ers

 

[sirlothie]

With the 76ers having the number 1 pick.

I bet Simmons hopes he does NOT go Number 1 pick.

No one would want to go the 76ers

He will just do a few years then **** off to a good team like they all do.

 

[Knightmare]

With the 76ers having the number 1 pick.

I bet Simmons hopes he does NOT go Number 1 pick.

No one would want to go the 76ers

The 76ers are rumoured to be looking to move that number one pick if the right deal is there.

If they retain the pick it's a tossup at this stage between Simmons and Ingram.

From a positional need perspective Ingram makes more sense, but if Simmons is seen as the best player there, it's not out of the question he is drafted, then the 76ers move some of their other bigs in order to accommodate Simmons in the front court.

It's a similar problem for the Lakers with several guys who play the power forward, but not much quality in their perimeter players.

It will be interesting to hear the rumours over the coming months.

I'm also really interested to see what happens with Thon Maker, if indeed he gets drafted.

It would be interesting to see if say Boston love Simmons whether they would be willing to trade pick 3, 23, 35 and a future first round selection. That would give the 76ers great flexibility and potentially be a great building block for the Celtics under a very impressive coach in Brad Stevens.

 

[TradeDraft]

The 76ers are rumoured to be looking to move that number one pick if the right deal is there.

If they retain the pick it's a tossup at this stage between Simmons and Ingram.

From a positional need perspective Ingram makes more sense, but if Simmons is seen as the best player there, it's not out of the question he is drafted, then the 76ers move some of their other bigs in order to accommodate Simmons in the front court.

It's a similar problem for the Lakers with several guys who play the power forward, but not much quality in their perimeter players.

It will be interesting to hear the rumours over the coming months.

I'm also really interested to see what happens with Thon Maker, if indeed he gets drafted.

It would be interesting to see if say Boston love Simmons whether they would be willing to trade pick 3, 23, 35 and a future first round selection. That would give the 76ers great flexibility and potentially be a great building block for the Celtics under a very impressive coach in Brad Stevens.

Don't you think Maker get Drafted?

 

[Knightmare]

Don't you think Maker get Drafted?

He probably goes second round. Plausible but unlikely first rounder. Possible to go undrafted.

With the second round though, the thing to know is deals are not guaranteed. So even if drafted, no guarantee he ends up being signed onto a roster.

With Maker understanding more about his measurements. I don't like that he has small hands. It's going to limit him as a big as one of the most critical factors. I'm also not seeing the points of difference with Maker that others don't show.

In any case. Make up your own mind.

Draftexpress do a sensational job with their draft videos and it's well worth checking out both Maker and Simmons on there.

 

[TradeDraft]

He probably goes second round. Plausible but unlikely first rounder. Possible to go undrafted.

With the second round though, the thing to know is deals are not guaranteed. So even if drafted, no guarantee he ends up being signed onto a roster.

With Maker understanding more about his measurements. I don't like that he has small hands. It's going to limit him as a big as one of the most critical factors. I'm also not seeing the points of difference with Maker that others don't show.

In any case. Make up your own mind.

Draftexpress do a sensational job with their draft videos and it's well worth checking out both Maker and Simmons on there.

When I hear Small Hands I think of Kwame Brown

 

[Knightmare]

When I hear Small Hands I think of Kwame Brown

Likewise.

It hurts rebounding, limits shot blocking ability and cleanness of hands.

He's an able but not outstanding athlete. Not a big time scorer or finisher, no post moves.

So he could very easily just not develop into anything.

In any case he'll be a project, so physical underdeveloper and having not played college b-ball he isn't ready to play.

 

[TradeDraft]

Likewise.

It hurts rebounding, limits shot blocking ability and cleanness of hands.

He's an able but not outstanding athlete. Not a big time scorer or finisher, no post moves.

So he could very easily just not develop into anything.

In any case he'll be a project, so physical underdeveloper and having not played college b-ball he isn't ready to play.

Someone that be Good for Cat-B in the AFL

Agree not playing College Ball means he is very Raw

 

[Knightmare]

Someone that be Good for Cat-B in the AFL

Agree not playing College Ball means he is very Raw

Certainly lacking experience as a result, as his body won't without that experience hold up well (as in getting tired) during an 82 game season with all the travel etc. Also an opportunity missed from a match play perspective.

If Maker fails to make it in the NBA and fails to catch on overseas I'd have no objection with signing making onto an AFL list. A 216cm ruckman who is a fluent mover and coordinated? Yes please!

 

[TradeDraft]

Raptors will get Sweeped by Easily. Cavs are a few level above in Talent then Toronro

 

[TradeDraft]

Knightmare what you think of most of Media in America who are saying Ben Simmions is Massively Overrated?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/basketb...s/news-story/5be70ff032e9505dba9a5061fb38932d

 

[wicksy]

Certainly lacking experience as a result, as his body won't without that experience hold up well (as in getting tired) during an 82 game season with all the travel etc. Also an opportunity missed from a match play perspective.

If Maker fails to make it in the NBA and fails to catch on overseas I'd have no objection with signing making onto an AFL list. A 216cm ruckman who is a fluent mover and coordinated? Yes please!

What do you think the go is with Maker not playing any college and not even participating in match simulations at the combine?
Seems awfully suss to me... Doesn't back his ability?

 

[wicksy]

Knightmare what you think of most of Media in America who are saying Ben Simmions is Massively Overrated?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/basketb...s/news-story/5be70ff032e9505dba9a5061fb38932d

Personally, I think he is massively overrated.....

For me, his style of play doesn't translate well with the position he'll likely play.

1. He needs to have ball in hand which is ok at college level but there are better guards in the NBA that will command that they control the ball.
2. He doesn't have a jumper. For me, he's a SF.... In a league that focuses so much on spacing the floor, how can you possibly start a SF that can't shoot. He'll be sagged off constantly!!
3. He's not big enough to play PF... He would be bullied in a PF position... Maybe he'll bulk into a Lebron but I doubt it. Some pretty good genetics (and most likely a bunch of HGH) went into making Lebron who he is.
4. He's mentally weak for me... When LSU were floundering he went missing. Champions don't do that.
5. His character is questionable... Believes in his own hype and it's debateable if he has the drive to take himself to a higher level.

In summary, his talent is undeniable but I think there's way too many question marks and i'd be going with Ingram at #1 every day of the week or even Bender given the huge success of Porzingas at the Knicks this year.

 

[Knightmare]

Raptors will get Sweeped by Easily. Cavs are a few level above in Talent then Toronro

Cavs can sweep the Raptors.

It's a case of in the East, there is no second great team, so the Cavs have a very easy road to the finals. Arguably a historically easy route to the finals.

Knightmare what you think of most of Media in America who are saying Ben Simmions is Massively Overrated?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/basketb...s/news-story/5be70ff032e9505dba9a5061fb38932d

Simmons I'd describe as overhyped, with many media people speculating that Simmons "is the next LeBron James" which is completely wrong. I think now people just have a better idea of who he is, and what to expect and know he isn't LeBron.

Simmons can be an all-star. He just won't be a superstar.

Very unique player though. Great handle, passing ability and court vision at his height. Rare in these areas. Good rebounder at the college level but don't think he'll be more than a good rebounder at NBA level given his light frame and lack of physicality. He can score inside efficiently (though not dominant) and hasn't really attempted many mid range or 3pt shots to clearly demonstrate that he can shoot at all. Athletically fluid but not explosive or powerful.

So he can be a high level point-forward (handling + distributing big), maybe something in-between Boris Diaw and LeBron.

What do you think the go is with Maker not playing any college and not even participating in match simulations at the combine?
Seems awfully suss to me... Doesn't back his ability?

I don't like it either. He's among the youngest in the draft class, so his game won't match up v experiences college players and international players. Athletically he isn't great compared to his peers. So nothing really surprising - with his advisers surely having input.

He is very much a wildcard who in time could plausibly make it, but is a development project.

Personally, I think he is massively overrated.....

For me, his style of play doesn't translate well with the position he'll likely play.

1. He needs to have ball in hand which is ok at college level but there are better guards in the NBA that will command that they control the ball.
2. He doesn't have a jumper. For me, he's a SF.... In a league that focuses so much on spacing the floor, how can you possibly start a SF that can't shoot. He'll be sagged off constantly!!
3. He's not big enough to play PF... He would be bullied in a PF position... Maybe he'll bulk into a Lebron but I doubt it. Some pretty good genetics (and most likely a bunch of HGH) went into making Lebron who he is.
4. He's mentally weak for me... When LSU were floundering he went missing. Champions don't do that.
5. His character is questionable... Believes in his own hype and it's debateable if he has the drive to take himself to a higher level.

In summary, his talent is undeniable but I think there's way too many question marks and i'd be going with Ingram at #1 every day of the week or even Bender given the huge success of Porzingas at the Knicks this year.

I agree with a lot of that with my general analysis above.

Ingram v Simmons is an interesting debate.

I'm not sure Ingram is any better. Very light frame at 190 pounds. Production leaner than Simmons in PER.

Just as Simmons is a poor man's LeBron, Ingram is a poor man's Durant, with Ingram's numbers not up to the standard Durant's stats were at the same stage.

Ingram is roughly inbetween Al Farouq-Aminu and KD for a rough feel.

I'd lean towards taking Simmons myself. With a few others such as Buddy Hield, Kris Dunn and Jamal Murray among others plausibly better than Ingram and maybe even Simmons.

 

[TradeDraft]

Knightmare would you say to the Kids in College to stay in College for a More then 1 Season so they can Develop more

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare would you say to the Kids in College to stay in College for a More then 1 Season so they can Develop more

It helps their development and readiness for the NBA. So where possible it's recommended if guys want to last in the NBA.

Guys who go to the NBA too early don't get minutes and can't develop, with no development coaching in the NBA.

It's all about coaching the starting five and those in the rotation.

Unless guys are coming into the NBA projecting as a clear starter for whoever they're drafted to then they shouldn't make the move.

Further to this those coming out of college early or going straight into the NBA tend to have durability issues. LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, KG and a small few others have been fine, but looking at players in more recent times: Irving, A.Davis, D.Rose, K.Love Guys just aren't holding up when they join the NBA so young. Their bodies can't handle 82 game seasons.

So either way you look at it, it's a better move staying in college if guys want long term NBA careers.

 

[wicksy]

Knightmare would you say to the Kids in College to stay in College for a More then 1 Season so they can Develop more

Hard to refuse the pay day they'll receive though.... It's understandable why some of them want to enter the league early.

 

[sirlothie]

What do you think the go is with Maker not playing any college and not even participating in match simulations at the combine?
Seems awfully suss to me... Doesn't back his ability?

If you are good at something, never do it for free.

 

[wicksy]

If you are good at something, never do it for free.

If that's the reason, then the arrogance is astounding!!!

 

[Knightmare]

Hard to refuse the pay day they'll receive though.... It's understandable why some of them want to enter the league early.

The only benefit is if it's a highly touted prospect who isn't really interested and knows they won't put in the work, under that scenario they may as well go get the pay day - eg. Tyrus Thomas.

That's about the only situation I'd recommend it. Otherwise you're selling yourself short.

 

[MrStealYourGirl]

Cavs can sweep the Raptors.

It's a case of in the East, there is no second great team, so the Cavs have a very easy road to the finals. Arguably a historically easy route to the finals.



Simmons I'd describe as overhyped, with many media people speculating that Simmons "is the next LeBron James" which is completely wrong. I think now people just have a better idea of who he is, and what to expect and know he isn't LeBron.

Simmons can be an all-star. He just won't be a superstar.

Very unique player though. Great handle, passing ability and court vision at his height. Rare in these areas. Good rebounder at the college level but don't think he'll be more than a good rebounder at NBA level given his light frame and lack of physicality. He can score inside efficiently (though not dominant) and hasn't really attempted many mid range or 3pt shots to clearly demonstrate that he can shoot at all. Athletically fluid but not explosive or powerful.

So he can be a high level point-forward (handling + distributing big), maybe something in-between Boris Diaw and LeBron.



I don't like it either. He's among the youngest in the draft class, so his game won't match up v experiences college players and international players. Athletically he isn't great compared to his peers. So nothing really surprising - with his advisers surely having input.

He is very much a wildcard who in time could plausibly make it, but is a development project.



I agree with a lot of that with my general analysis above.

Ingram v Simmons is an interesting debate.

I'm not sure Ingram is any better. Very light frame at 190 pounds. Production leaner than Simmons in PER.

Just as Simmons is a poor man's LeBron, Ingram is a poor man's Durant, with Ingram's numbers not up to the standard Durant's stats were at the same stage.

Ingram is roughly inbetween Al Farouq-Aminu and KD for a rough feel.

I'd lean towards taking Simmons myself. With a few others such as Buddy Hield, Kris Dunn and Jamal Murray among others plausibly better than Ingram and maybe even Simmons.

Simmons and Ingram are head and shoulders above the rest when you watch them play, even at their young ages. Guys like Hield and Dunn are more experienced and this gives them a significant edge and Murray I just see as a "downhill skier" in football terms in that he looks great when things are going right, but he tends to jack up an abundance of shots even when he's cold.

Simmons has some of the rarest traits of any 6'10 PF coming out of college of all time. You look at some recent dominant college PF's such as Julius Randle,Thomas Robertson and as far back as Derrick Williams, these guys were all just bully's who had man strength from a young age. Simmons has some of the best body control, upper body strength and ball handling for a forward probably since Lebron. He run's the break and has a lightning step, something very few players have in their arsenal. He has the traits to be a superstar and at least an all-star. He's far more athletic than Diaw ever was so I'd probably go against that comparison, but a slightly more athletic Lamar Odom is probably what his base ceiling would be.

Ingram is probably a touch below Simmons, but he's only 18 still and would probably be one of the youngest 5 players in the NBA next season. Even if Ingram doesn't have the body strength required to finish strong at the ring at the moment (fairly obvious he doesn't) the ability of him to shoot catch and shoot jumpers and be a 40%+ 3-point shooter makes him extremely valuable for anyone in this day and age. If he puts on, say, 10kg's within the first 2 or 3 season like Durant, he has the upside to be an all-star. Not many guys possess the extremely long arms that he has and he will pretty much always be able to get off a jumper over any 6'7 or 6'8 SF. He could definitely be a 20ppg scorer in the league, just like a slightly poorer mans Durant.

 

[Knightmare]

Simmons and Ingram are head and shoulders above the rest when you watch them play, even at their young ages. Guys like Hield and Dunn are more experienced and this gives them a significant edge and Murray I just see as a "downhill skier" in football terms in that he looks great when things are going right, but he tends to jack up an abundance of shots even when he's cold.

Simmons has some of the rarest traits of any 6'10 PF coming out of college of all time. You look at some recent dominant college PF's such as Julius Randle,Thomas Robertson and as far back as Derrick Williams, these guys were all just bully's who had man strength from a young age. Simmons has some of the best body control, upper body strength and ball handling for a forward probably since Lebron. He run's the break and has a lightning step, something very few players have in their arsenal. He has the traits to be a superstar and at least an all-star. He's far more athletic than Diaw ever was so I'd probably go against that comparison, but a slightly more athletic Lamar Odom is probably what his base ceiling would be.

Ingram is probably a touch below Simmons, but he's only 18 still and would probably be one of the youngest 5 players in the NBA next season. Even if Ingram doesn't have the body strength required to finish strong at the ring at the moment (fairly obvious he doesn't) the ability of him to shoot catch and shoot jumpers and be a 40%+ 3-point shooter makes him extremely valuable for anyone in this day and age. If he puts on, say, 10kg's within the first 2 or 3 season like Durant, he has the upside to be an all-star. Not many guys possess the extremely long arms that he has and he will pretty much always be able to get off a jumper over any 6'7 or 6'8 SF. He could definitely be a 20ppg scorer in the league, just like a slightly poorer mans Durant.

What are you thinking about Maker?

 

[MrStealYourGirl]

What are you thinking about Maker?

Certainly a boom or bust pick. Not really proven but has aspects that really 'wow' you. Not many 7'2 guys can handle the ball up the court but he doesn't have good explosiveness and he's not very efficient offensively (lack of offensive polish mainly the issueless). If he gets buried on a bench early on a good team it would really stunt his development, he'd nearly be better off playing in the d-league. I'm assuming one of the teams such as Boston, Toronto or Philli with multiple 1st rounders probably takes a risk with him, but it would require 4-5 years of patience for a team to get their investments worth.

 

[wicksy]

Simmons and Ingram are head and shoulders above the rest when you watch them play, even at their young ages. Guys like Hield and Dunn are more experienced and this gives them a significant edge and Murray I just see as a "downhill skier" in football terms in that he looks great when things are going right, but he tends to jack up an abundance of shots even when he's cold.

Simmons has some of the rarest traits of any 6'10 PF coming out of college of all time. You look at some recent dominant college PF's such as Julius Randle,Thomas Robertson and as far back as Derrick Williams, these guys were all just bully's who had man strength from a young age. Simmons has some of the best body control, upper body strength and ball handling for a forward probably since Lebron. He run's the break and has a lightning step, something very few players have in their arsenal. He has the traits to be a superstar and at least an all-star. He's far more athletic than Diaw ever was so I'd probably go against that comparison, but a slightly more athletic Lamar Odom is probably what his base ceiling would be.

Ingram is probably a touch below Simmons, but he's only 18 still and would probably be one of the youngest 5 players in the NBA next season. Even if Ingram doesn't have the body strength required to finish strong at the ring at the moment (fairly obvious he doesn't) the ability of him to shoot catch and shoot jumpers and be a 40%+ 3-point shooter makes him extremely valuable for anyone in this day and age. If he puts on, say, 10kg's within the first 2 or 3 season like Durant, he has the upside to be an all-star. Not many guys possess the extremely long arms that he has and he will pretty much always be able to get off a jumper over any 6'7 or 6'8 SF. He could definitely be a 20ppg scorer in the league, just like a slightly poorer mans Durant.

Great analysis mate... Welcome to the thread. Good to have another knowledgeable poster to go toe to toe with Knightmare