The off topic thread #2

[bok_party]

never heard of it. what is there best?

My Neighbour Totoro, Ponyo, Porco Rosso, The Secret World of Arietty, Howls Moving Castle, Spirited Away, The Wind Rises, Princess Mononoke, When Marnie Was There, Grave of the Firedlies

 

[Fryer Tuck]

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Disney_Golden_Age

"The Disney Golden Age refers to the beginning of the Disney Animated Canon when Walt Disney was still alive and all the films received critical acclaim despite struggles at the box office due to World War II and other problems. It is predicted that the era started when Disney made his first full-length animated feature, beginning with the film Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs in 1937, and ending in 1970with The Aristocats, which is also said to be the start of another era known as the Disney Dark Age. However, it should be noted, by animation historians, movie critics and Disney fans, that The Aristocats is sometimes considered a part of the Disney Golden Age for a multitude of reasons. It was one of the last films Walt Disney worked on while he was still alive, the film was not only a critical and financially success, but is generally considered an iconic film."

Well, at least you're both right. Though I have to admit that the definition of where that Golden Age ends is another matter. It just seems to cover the age where Walt was still the big man, even if it became clear that the films were being reduced by their budgets.

There's also some really average 40s films in between Bambi and Cinderella. I'd also argue and say that the Rescuers Down Under deserves to be mentioned along side the films either side of it as the most underrated film that era, and would even suggest that it started at The Great Mouse Detective (and ended at the Emperor's New Groove, I don't count Dinosaur at all in that.)

Between the two eras, I would say the Renaissance provided the better movies constantly (though there is a notable drop between Lion King and Pocahontas critically. Hunchback is actually a surprisingly mature film for Disney standards, and probably wasn't a good choice after Pocahuntas. Mulan and Hercules are mixed depending who you ask, and Tarzan... no one really seems to talk about Tarzan that much outside of Phil Collins. But all of them are very iconic for different reasons.)

For me, I'd have to say I like the Renaissance films better because well... The Renaissance films do cover more of the complete package, whereas the olden Age like has the one or two big major notable thing, but doesn't seem to cover the rest of it as well.

Like Sleeping Beauty for instance. It's an iconic film, but what for really? Certainly not the main duo. Briar Rose does nothing, the Princes has no lines for half the movie despite having the active role. The film is ruled by its side characters, and Maleficent coming out as one of Disney's best villains.

Now take a look at Beauty and the Beast, where all of the main and side characters are contributing and having influence. Gaston is one of my favourite villains and he's a very nice twist on what Disney usually goes with.

You tell me greater freedom back then, but is it really? I can see what you're trying to poke at, but between the Golden Age and Renaissance films, I can't think of any so-called freedoms that would have made the films better?

My Neighbour Totoro, Ponyo, Porco Rosso, The Secret World of Arietty, Howls Moving Castle, Spirited Away, The Wind Rises, Princess Mononoke, When Marnie Was There, Grave of the Firedlies

Ah Studio Ghibi, a mixed bag if I ever saw one. Really liked Howl's Moving Castle, Ponyo and Spirited Away are overhyped, but passable if you can get your head past a few things (I had a lot of fun snarking both films).

And then there's Princess Mononoke, probably hands down the film that has disappointed me the most ever. I heard nothing but good things about the film, and considering its darker and edgier tone, it seemed very promising. In fact, this was the Ghibi film I was looking forward to the most out of all of them. Probably one of the most boring and bland films I have ever seen and one of those films that made me wonder 'how much longer will this go for?' There is nothing about the film that I liked at all.

I'm hoping Porco Rosso is nothing like that, it's the one I'm looking forward to the most out of the others. I'm going to try do both Kiki's Delivery Service and My Neighbour Totoro without the hype, because I know full well that the films are enjoyed in a certain manner. Grave of the Fireflies is another one, but man, I need to do a better job in searching them out.

 

[BluesMan]

Loved Spirited Away, scared me as a kid, but was a favourite.

 

[FAITH]

Who actually owns big footy and how much do mods get paid?

 

[chef]

Who actually owns big footy and how much do mods get paid?

I earn more than Boyd.

 

[SM]

I'm currently in contract negotiations for a new 6-year deal.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

Fryer Tuck

The accepted golden age of Disney is between the first feature length film Snow White up until 1970's the Aristocats. There is some shit runs in that timeframe though, notably between 1942-1950 where I don't recognise any of the films wiki lists. But you can't argue with the films between 37-42 and 61-70, they are the benchmark. As good as the 1990's films may be, they will never quite match up to some of the classic films below.

1937 Snow White
1940 Pinochhio
1940 Fantasia
1941 Dumbo
1942 Bambi
(Four classics plus Fantasia)

1950 Cinderella
1951 Alice in Wonderland
1953 Peter Pan
1955 Lady and the Tramp
(3 semi-classics + classic LatT)

1959 Sleeping Beauty
1961 101 Dalmations
1963 The Sword in the Stone
1967 The Jungle Book
1970 The Aristocats
(3 classics + mediocre SB & SitS)

 

[chef]

Go the Sharkies

 

[chef]

Cmon Cronula join Cleveland, Leicester and the Doggies

 

[chef]

What a year for fairytales

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

What a year for fairytales

Time to load up on the Baseball team with the saddest history and load up on the browns winning the superbowl (lol)

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Actually the eagles might break their first superbowl under wentz.

Jatz have you put a cheeky bet on the eagles

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Well that's shit, wanted the storm to win, stuff the sharks with that knobhead gallon.

 

[Zidane98]

I earn more than Boyd.

I hear you get a bonus per FAITH ban

 

[jod23]

I hear you get a bonus per FAITH ban

I'm on the vet minimum.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Well, good for the Sharks to win that 1st Premiership, but not at the expense of the Storm, god damn it.

Fryer Tuck

The accepted golden age of Disney is between the first feature length film Snow White up until 1970's the Aristocats. There is some shit runs in that timeframe though, notably between 1942-1950 where I don't recognise any of the films wiki lists. But you can't argue with the films between 37-42 and 61-70, they are the benchmark. As good as the 1990's films may be, they will never quite match up to some of the classic films below.

1937 Snow White
1940 Pinochhio
1940 Fantasia
1941 Dumbo
1942 Bambi
(Four classics plus Fantasia)

1950 Cinderella
1951 Alice in Wonderland
1953 Peter Pan
1955 Lady and the Tramp
(3 semi-classics + classic LatT)

1959 Sleeping Beauty
1961 101 Dalmations
1963 The Sword in the Stone
1967 The Jungle Book
1970 The Aristocats
(3 classics + mediocre SB & SitS)

Thank you for your definition, I was wondering which ones you were going to include, and well, this makes it easier!

Alright, from a classical standpoint, the 37-42 era, that's an extremely nice line up (Fantasia is a animation masterpiece, though it can't be talked about in any other context.) Though in my opinion, Dumbo is a bit of a nothing film, because it's basically mock the elephant with big ears, and then at the end he flies, and well, that's it. Bambi does well in expression, not a fan myself, but you can see it is a very beautiful and expressive film. The First Two is a case of Say No More, because you already know.

50-55 is an interesting break, though your definition of semis is interesting and you've considered LatT as the classic (I think you've made a good choice), because I'd say both Cinderella and Peter Pan would be certs, especially in Disney's eyes. I really liked Lady and the Tramp, there are some good elements there, and it would be my favourite of the 4, the amount of research done there for different breeds certainly shows. Alice is also a good contender, even if that film makes you want to hate everything about them, even Alice. No likeable characters there.

59-70, OK, now we get a period where things start to taper off... but wait, of the 5 films, Aristocats over SB? That's very interesting. I would say Disney considers SB to be the classic there. Best side-characters along with Jungle Book, but not so much everything else. Out of that lot, I'd say 101 Dalmatians is my pick (though I have to admit it was one of the first Disney films I can recall seeing), and I would say that Cruella De Vil is one of the most iconic villains in my opinion. I think the first half of the film is very solid in establishing the relationships between dog and master, and considering the number of characters to deal with later on, I think they did a pretty solid job with that.

I have half a mind to draw the line at 101 Dalmatians, because everything drops off after that.


Alright, now the comparison point:
1989 The Little Mermaid
1990 The Rescuers Down Under (The forgotten one)
1991 Beauty and the Beast
1992 Aladdin
1994 The Lion King
1995 Pocahontas
1996 The Hunchback of Notre Dame
1997 Hercules
1998 Mulan
1999 Tarzan

My thoughts: 4 certain classics (LM, BatB, Aladdin, LK,) 4 Top Tiers (RDU, THoND, Mulan, Tarzan), 2 High Tiers (Pocahuntas, Hercules [I like Hercules, but many feel mixed about it])

I'd also add in terms of quality:
1986 The Great Mouse Detective
1988 Oliver & Company
2000 The Emperor's New Groove

2 Top Tiers (TGMD, TENG)

That line up of the Renaissance is probably one of the best remembered line ups (with the exception of the RDU, which is extremely underrated). Ask pretty much any member here, and they will have at least one fond member of at least one of those films, especially of BatB, Aladdin, and the Lion King.

Alright, your turn.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

Well, good for the Sharks to win that 1st Premiership, but not at the expense of the Storm, god damn it.



Thank you for your definition, I was wondering which ones you were going to include, and well, this makes it easier!

Alright, from a classical standpoint, the 37-42 era, that's an extremely nice line up (Fantasia is a animation masterpiece, though it can't be talked about in any other context.) Though in my opinion, Dumbo is a bit of a nothing film, because it's basically mock the elephant with big ears, and then at the end he flies, and well, that's it. Bambi does well in expression, not a fan myself, but you can see it is a very beautiful and expressive film. The First Two is a case of Say No More, because you already know.

50-55 is an interesting break, though your definition of semis is interesting and you've considered LatT as the classic (I think you've made a good choice), because I'd say both Cinderella and Peter Pan would be certs, especially in Disney's eyes. I really liked Lady and the Tramp, there are some good elements there, and it would be my favourite of the 4, the amount of research done there for different breeds certainly shows. Alice is also a good contender, even if that film makes you want to hate everything about them, even Alice. No likeable characters there.

59-70, OK, now we get a period where things start to taper off... but wait, of the 5 films, Aristocats over SB? That's very interesting. I would say Disney considers SB to be the classic there. Best side-characters along with Jungle Book, but not so much everything else. Out of that lot, I'd say 101 Dalmatians is my pick (though I have to admit it was one of the first Disney films I can recall seeing), and I would say that Cruella De Vil is one of the most iconic villains in my opinion. I think the first half of the film is very solid in establishing the relationships between dog and master, and considering the number of characters to deal with later on, I think they did a pretty solid job with that.

I have half a mind to draw the line at 101 Dalmatians, because everything drops off after that.


Alright, now the comparison point:
1989 The Little Mermaid
1990 The Rescuers Down Under (The forgotten one)
1991 Beauty and the Beast
1992 Aladdin
1994 The Lion King
1995 Pocahontas
1996 The Hunchback of Notre Dame
1997 Hercules
1998 Mulan
1999 Tarzan

My thoughts: 4 certain classics (LM, BatB, Aladdin, LK,) 4 Top Tiers (RDU, THoND, Mulan, Tarzan), 2 High Tiers (Pocahuntas, Hercules [I like Hercules, but many feel mixed about it])

I'd also add in terms of quality:
1986 The Great Mouse Detective
1988 Oliver & Company
2000 The Emperor's New Groove

2 Top Tiers (TGMD, TENG)

That line up of the Renaissance is probably one of the best remembered line ups (with the exception of the RDU, which is extremely underrated). Ask pretty much any member here, and they will have at least one fond member of at least one of those films, especially of BatB, Aladdin, and the Lion King.

Alright, your turn.

Would you say the animation was superior for the old films? There was such a beauty to it. The newer stuff you can tell it has been aided by computers. That's one big reason the older films are better, plus they aren't weighed down with political correctness and for the most part have better voice actors - but that's no surprise as vocal technique has decreased over the years.

Do you know I don't think I've ever seen Sleeping Beauty. I think that's the only one of the main Disney films up until 1970 that I haven't. I don't recall Bambi either, but I think I saw it when I was about five or something. Even though all those films were made before I was born, they used to get cinema re-releases every summer. I remember seeing the Jungje Book, the Aristocats and Snow White st the Cinema probably in the late 70's early 80's. Also saw the Rescuers and the Fox and the Hound upon release. I'm pretty sure the Renaissance films never got cinematic re-released but could be wrong

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Would you say the animation was superior for the old films? There was such a beauty to it. The newer stuff you can tell it has been aided by computers. That's one big reason the older films are better, plus they aren't weighed down with political correctness and for the most part have better voice actors - but that's no surprise as vocal technique has decreased over the years.

Do you know I don't think I've ever seen Sleeping Beauty. I think that's the only one of the main Disney films up until 1970 that I haven't. I don't recall Bambi either, but I think I saw it when I was about five or something. Even though all those films were made before I was born, they used to get cinema re-releases every summer. I remember seeing the Jungje Book, the Aristocats and Snow White st the Cinema probably in the late 70's early 80's. Also saw the Rescuers and the Fox and the Hound upon release. I'm pretty sure the Renaissance films never got cinematic re-released but could be wrong

Ah, so you're a stickler for the traditional methods, the hand drawn ways. I will admit there is a lot of charm, especially without computers. Then again, we first saw it in TGMD (the cogs of Big Ben), and it looked really good.

That said, I think you're getting the Disney Renaissance mixed up with the current era (Frozen, Tangled, ect.) Because the complaints you have seem more suited to this era rather than the 90s. (I will agree with vocal technique, the variance and quality just doesn't seem as clear there these days. There is some top notch quality out there still, but not enough variance). I think in the Renaissance, the computers aided the animators to make things even better, being subtle in their developments, not the full blown stuff we see today.

I think you're going to have to spell it out here... unless you're suggesting multiculturalism and better heroines is part of that agenda (and let's be honest, give me Belle and Jasmine any day of the week over Snow White and Briar Rose), then I really don't see any problems in that aspect (it's nice to see films that actually embrace their cultural roots and add character to their worlds.)


You haven't? Well, that is quite a surprise. Here you will find what many consider to be Disney's best villain, and I would say a story where the side-characters shine best. If you do get the chance, note the main duo, and tell me everything you know about them, because I gurantee you they are far and away the least interesting characters in the whole story (even though you're with the Prince for half the movie, you get nothing out of him.) It has been a while since I've seen Bambi as well.

As for re-releases, I know they do them from time to time. In fact, if I recall correctly, the local cinema played many of the classics (including the Renaissance films), one show a week. OK, it's not a full-blown re-release that actually gets a run (if only because of the Disney Vault that allowed it to be possible from the start, and these days, it's not very profitable to do so), but it's there on the odd occasion. If only you want to get the 'cinema' experience. It's not quite 1994, but you can enjoy it as if it was the last shows of the run, about 10-12 weeks after release day.

 

[Quivorir]

God dammit stop using abbreviations

 

[Art Vandelay_]

God dammit stop using abbreviations

Wait until you meet faith. You need a special dictionary for abbreviations

 

[Bojan KantKick]

What a year for fairytales

Drug cheats winning is not a fairytale.

 

[chef]

Drug cheats winning is not a fairytale.

Who cheated this year?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Drug cheats winning is not a fairytale.

Cronulla v Storm now there's a GF to tell the kiddies about.
I guess we may get that at the next Carlton v Essendon GF

I'm more pissed that the giant no necked dickhead Paul Gallen is a premiership player.

 

[chef]

I was thinking more for the supporters. 50 year and no trophy, its a magic moment for them

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Who cheated this year?

The effects of PED's are long lasting. Look at Justin Gatlin ffs