The on topic thread

[jd2010]

People need to make their mind up. Is Etihad being used to prop up City by paying inflated sponsorship deals? Or is City being used to prop up Etihad as you are inferring?

Maybe there is no conspiracy and it's just a straightforward commercial deal that is very beneficial to both parties.

End of the day they pass the tests in place about related parties. I'm not of the opinion you get inflated sponsorship through the company. An airline business isn't going to care if you finish 2nd/3rd and not win CL, they're getting their exposure regardless.

 

[jod23]

The final still drew 93k yesterday which is massive and the biggest crowd for an ODI at the MCG I think (heard something like that last night).

Everyone knows liverpool have a big following in Australia and around the world, not sure why you get worked up about it, does it really matter if arsenal and chelsea are close or even ahead?

Well it doesnt matter really but neither I would think are close or ahead.

 

[Jatz]

The young English players aren't as awful as everyone makes out...

 

[chef]

The young English players aren't as awful as everyone makes out...

Yep, I know Chelsea have got a few coming through that look very promising.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Football clubs are a very poor investment if you are looking to "make a mint".

I hope people realise the difference between revenue and profit.

Arsenal's revenue was £299 million for 2013/14 but the club's PROFIT was only £4.3 million

I think if you get the right model in place, football clubs can be profitable investments - obviously the biggest barrier to many is the expensive initial cost involved (I've read the term 'Billionaire's plaything' used to describe some owners who come in and run the club how they want because generally, only billionaire's have the wealth to buy into clubs).

Someone like Tony Fernandes or Ellis Short probably hasn't done the best job of 'making money' with his lavish spending/huge wages eating away any potential profits but Ashley (while I don't support him, has done a good job - from a business perspective) has generally found a way to minimalise spending on transfers (through scouting the continent for bargains) and enforcing a strict wage cap policy.

He's also notorious for being very tough to negotiate with (perhaps like Levy) and would rather walk away from a transfer than shell out extra if its outside of his valuation or the agent's fees are excessive. Ashley's model has yielded 4 successive seasons of profit for him too (while no doubt improving his Sporting Goods empire - where he gets free advertising and exposure to a global audience).

 

[NUFC Tiger]

£18.7m profit for the Geordies.

What's most concerning is the unexplained increase in costs ($28.5m) that hasn't been explained - surely wouldn't be in wages...perhaps Ashley's pie budget?

The revenue has gone up by £33.8m (from £95.9m to £129.7m)

The operating profit has improved by £5.3m (a loss of £0.6m becoming a profit of £4.7m)

So what the limited information released by the club doesn’t explain is how costs have gone up by a massive £28.5m!

http://www.themag.co.uk/2015/03/newcastle-united-finances-leave-28-5m-unexplained/


Not only that, but he isn't (apparently) repaying the debt owed to him despite the club posting another profit.

“The Club’s debt continues to remain static at £129million in the form of an interest-free loan from owner Mike Ashley.

“None of the debt has been repaid to Mr Ashley nor has the owner taken any other monies from the Club.”

So where is the money going Mike?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

If Jesse Lingard can stay fit for a season he could turn into a decent attacking midfielder. Made his first team debut in the first game of the season so LVG must rate him. Got badly injured after about 10 minutes

Certainly has an eye for goal, scored 4 on his debut for Birmingham (on loan from united) last season.

Watch out for Callum Gribbin, looks an absolute jet at 16 years of age.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Debt is to the owner who is running your club at a profit but terribly on the pitch. I can see why he runs it the way he does, owed a lot of money by the club he doesn't support (Spurs & Rangers fan apparently). Feel for the fans because a big club has just been used as a giant Sports Direct marketing tool

The problem a lot of Toon fans have is the debt was always there - he just failed to do his proper due diligence when he bought the club. Not only that but he was forced to pump in another $25m IIRC while we were in the championship to keep the club afloat...the relegation was basically his doing and he paid the price for his mistakes.

Wish he sold up shop and went 'home' to Spurs jd!

Would be interesting to know how much Sports Direct's profits have risen since Ashely took over at Newcastle. That is how the money is made through the "sponsor" company. Same with the Arabs and Etihad.

Roman didn't buy Chelsea to make money, he did it for PR to clean his image. Apparently (the guy who testified against him died) made his money through fraudulent acquisitions of land, forged documents on oil purchases, arms trading etc.

Ashley's personal fortune was roughly $2b in 2007 (now sitting at $4.9b in 2015) so its fair to say he's done relatively well for himself (even in spite of things like the GFC).

I'm not hugely familiar with the British stock market but when Sports Direct went publicly listed in 2007 (same year he bought the club), the share price was 285p (not sure what that is in pounds/AUD). Having a look, the highest it got to was April 2014 (when the price was closing at 922p) with the lowest 32p (2008 - our relegation season). It's currently valued at 621.5p

http://www.stockopedia.com/share-prices/sports-direct-international-LON:SPD/

 

[NUFC Tiger]

An investment is only worth it if it increases in value.

Football clubs require constant spending just to maintain their ability to stay in the premier league/champions leag. One bad season and your investment get wiped out.

The top 5-6 clubs maybe good investments purely because their commercial contracts can offset/balance the income needed to improve the playing squads.

The rest of the teams in the league cant. They are forever stuck in the get player/incur costs sell player/recover costs try not to get relegated cycle. There is very little money to be made off these clubs.

No doubt Shoei it's high stakes but 'if' a club can maintain its status as a PL side, surely the value would (likely) increase over time? Obviously there needs to be tight wage control in place/no senseless spending on big flops but with ticket prices seemingly on the rise across the league, the league being increasingly more popular as a spectacle (attracting more sponsors/bigger sponsorship agreements) and the growing TV revenue on offer, surely a well run club will only grow in value over time.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

No doubt Shoei it's high stakes but 'if' a club can maintain its status as a PL side, surely the value would (likely) increase over time? Obviously there needs to be tight wage control in place/no senseless spending on big flops but with ticket prices seemingly on the rise across the league, the league being increasingly more popular as a spectacle (attracting more sponsors/bigger sponsorship agreements) and the growing TV revenue on offer, surely a well run club will only grow in value over time.

While that is indeed true, considering the ever increasing coin a club gets for every year in the PL, one must also remember that a part of the value is also dependent on how the club performs in its stay in the Premier League. I don't have a list available to me at the moment, but as things stand, I would say that Southampton is worth more than Aston Villa despite Villa's historical standing in the Midlands (Going on takeover values: Villa was 200 mil pounds in April 14, Southampton 175 mil in Jan 14).

Staying up in the Premier League is one thing. Actually doing something and making a name for yourself is another.

That's why in these days, the best way to get a lot of bang for your buck is to take a 'bigger' Championship club and take them to the Premier League. Some owners own an airline, others...

Of course, you don't want to spend too much coin like QPR has, because that would be disaster. Our owners were like that at first, going for Sven, giving the likes of Beckford crazy high amounts for little return. Then they learned about cutting down on costs, and getting the most efficient combination to get the job done.

The next step is to ensure that you've done enough to stay in the Premier League in order to cash in. Watch how Crystal Palace and Southampton grow in value. Of course, this year's promoted teams look likely to get relegated, but you just feel if perhaps for some better tactics, a certain team in blue might have made good on their plans to stay.

Aiming to finish 17th is not good enough. The prize money increases for every spot you move up the table. With increased movement up the table also comes extra sponsors that want to give you more coin.

Combined with some clever business, you should see some gains in your investment. As of this moment, our owners have nearly doubled their wealth in the space of one year. In terms of club value, we were taken over for 39 mil in 2010. I'd say it's more than that now.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

This is spot on from Burley which is rare for him. Bags the living daylights out of the English media

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Curious question, why are you named Bojan KantKick? Wouldn't Gerrard FuchsUp be a better name? Lol.

he's using Gerrard as an example of something that is widespread in the English media. Did you watch it?

 

[Fryer Tuck]

he's using Gerrard as an example of something that is widespread in the English media. Did you watch it?

I'd love to, but unfortunately, I don't have sound here. I'll have to comment on it when I get back. It's just when it comes to Gerrard bagging, you know? I know it's a bit of banter and all.

But looking at it, it looks like it's a case of UK media taking it easy on English players? Also attempting to defend that bit of stupidity... You're right about it. The guy's 34, he should know better than to go stamping like that. You expect better from a leader, so to go soft when Gerrard apologised? Yeah, good that he did, but at the same time, he shouldn't have done it in the first place.

It's pretty much the case for the majority of English players, they are definitely treated differently in the media, that can lead to an overinflated opinion of players, which is why they are so overvalued. They will also try to grip on any English player that looks to be performing well enough, hoping to reserve the fortunes of the national team on the big stage (Hey, Vardy was strongly considered after one good game against United.)

Again, haven't heard the video, but based on what I'm looking at, I am in agreement that Gerrard should still be shunned for his behaviour. I expect that from Balotelli, not Gerrard. Gets on the pitch, and gets red carded for utter stupidity.

I will definitely listen to it as soon as I can.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I'd love to, but unfortunately, I don't have sound here. I'll have to comment on it when I get back. It's just when it comes to Gerrard bagging, you know? I know it's a bit of banter and all.

But looking at it, it looks like it's a case of UK media taking it easy on English players? Also attempting to defend that bit of stupidity... You're right about it. The guy's 34, he should know better than to go stamping like that. You expect better from a leader, so to go soft when Gerrard apologised? Yeah, good that he did, but at the same time, he shouldn't have done it in the first place.

It's pretty much the case for the majority of English players, they are definitely treated differently in the media, that can lead to an overinflated opinion of players, which is why they are so overvalued. They will also try to grip on any English player that looks to be performing well enough, hoping to reserve the fortunes of the national team on the big stage (Hey, Vardy was strongly considered after one good game against United.)

Again, haven't heard the video, but based on what I'm looking at, I am in agreement that Gerrard should still be shunned for his behaviour. I expect that from Balotelli, not Gerrard. Gets on the pitch, and gets red carded for utter stupidity.

Basically this. It's not dissing Gerrard, it's dissing the media for lynching Balo, Costa, DDG and backing up Gerrard, Terry, Hart, Rooney, etc.

 

[SM]

This is spot on from Burley which is rare for him. Bags the living daylights out of the English media

Great video.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Basically this. It's not dissing Gerrard, it's dissing the media for lynching Balo, Costa, DDG and backing up Gerrard, Terry, Hart, Rooney, etc.

Not surprised at all. Then again, a little patriotism is to be expected when it comes to discussing one's own sporting competition. They will always try to find the right angle to back their national heroes. As you have noted, John Terry has gotten it quite easy, and purely because he's English. It seems the only way any English player can be viewed in a negative light is if they committed rape like Ched Evans. I think Balo got fried before he even stepped foot into England.

It does happen in other nations, definitely Italy and France. It is to be expected, but in England, it is very jarring to a point where it actually has a perceived pricing effect on English players.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Not surprised at all. Then again, a little patriotism is to be expected when it comes to discussing one's own sporting competition. They will always try to find the right angle to back their national heroes. As you have noted, John Terry has gotten it quite easy, and purely because he's English. It seems the only way any English player can be viewed in a negative light is if they committed rape like Ched Evans. I think Balo got fried before he even stepped foot into England.

It does happen in other nations, definitely Italy and France. It is to be expected, but in England, it is very jarring to a point where it actually has a perceived pricing effect on English players.

in particular it annoys me greatly when players apologise to the club, their team mates and the supporters..........and not the bloke they injured, spat on, abused, etc.

 

[moomba]

I don't think it's an English thing as such with the media. I think there are club loyalties and the majority of ex players can't seem to look beyond that. Then I think most ex players and journos tend to look after mates they come across in the game.

FWIW the criticism DDG got when he was cocking up regularly was no worse than the criticism Hart got when he was cocking up regularly. And the praise Hart gets when he gets it right is no greater than the praise DDG gets.

But I don't see Hart as particularly looked after by the press. I don't think he plays their game to be honest.

 

[Buckleys Jocks]

FWIW the criticism DDG got when he was cocking up regularly was no worse than the criticism Hart got when he was cocking up regularly. And the praise Hart gets when he gets it right is no greater than the praise DDG gets.

I agree with that but the difference for me is that it took the press far too long to acknowledge that DDG had turned it around. I mean he was still being called 'shaky' even when he became one of our key players, it's only really in the last 12 months that the media have caught up to how good he is.

 

[moomba]

I agree with that but the difference for me is that it took the press far too long to acknowledge that DDG had turned it around. I mean he was still being called 'shaky' even when he became one of our key players, it's only really in the last 12 months that the media have caught up to how good he is.

I think after the first year a few commentators (Gary Neville was one) made a conscious effort to highlight the good and excuse the bad with him.

But I don't think he's been criticised much in the press for a couple of years now.

Even in 11/12 he was poor and ended up getting dropped for a bit iirc. Don't think he's been criticised much since.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

DDG when he joined us was straight up a world class shot stopper, you could see it from his first game, but he was dreadful when the opposition teams had corners, just got shoved around to easy and wasn't commanding or brave enough, but he has worked on that part of his game and now he is the complete package.

 

[moomba]

Can't wait for these shit internationals to finish. Was watching Holland the other day and thinking there was a decent chance they wouldn't qualify. Then I find out 3rd place gets a playoff place.

It wasn't always like that was it?

Makes the whole thing a borefest.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Can't wait for these shit internationals to finish. Was watching Holland the other day and thinking there was a decent chance they wouldn't qualify. Then I find out 3rd place gets a playoff place.

It wasn't always like that was it?

Makes the whole thing a borefest.

Ah come on, it's not all bad. There's some good international matches there. I mean, I guess I can understand the point of view for the bigger clubs. What if your players get injured while on duty?

Nope, 3rd place playoffs are new for Euro 2016 now that it's for 24 teams. It was designed to give the next tier something more to play for. That means you might have the very rare chance of seeing the home nations all together at a tournament! Or the Nordic 5. Then again, says a lot about the Nordic 5 when Iceland's the best of them.

Also, is it just me, or does everything about Scottish sport seem to suck? First team eliminated last time (I'm aware they're 3rd now.) Worst team in the Cricket World Cup. Finished bottom in the 6 Nations. What the heck is going on with that lot in recent times?

 

[jd2010]

England got a good 3-2 win over a good German side in U21 action last night. It's all well and good winning these games now but it's pretty damning that the German side had 678 top flight games between them compared to the English side's 232. Youth football isn't about results it's about player progression & pathways to the senior team, the German model is the way to go

 

[jd2010]

Can't wait for these shit internationals to finish. Was watching Holland the other day and thinking there was a decent chance they wouldn't qualify. Then I find out 3rd place gets a playoff place.

It wasn't always like that was it?

Makes the whole thing a borefest.

24 team tournament. So 23/54 qualify. Joke!