Solved The Peter Falconio Disappearance

[PenfoldsFan]

I'm a bit shocked that was kept quiet.

Any ideas of where they stayed the night of the 13th?

I believe it may have been a backpackers as im pretty sure other guests reported an argument between them.

To be honest I havent looked at any of the detail in quite a while.

 

[Kurve]

What’s the movie called and where can one watch it ?

There's this four parter, if you haven't seen it. It's surprisingly pretty good.

Watch Murder In The Outback: The Falconio & Lees Mystery Online: Free Streaming & Catch Up TV in Australia

Watch, Stream & Catch Up with your favourite Murder In The Outback: The Falconio & Lees Mystery episodes on 7plus. Murder in the Outback reopens the disputed case of British tourist Peter Falconio who disappeared in the Australian outback in 2001.

7plus.com.au

 

[PenfoldsFan]

There's this four parter, if you haven't seen it. It's surprisingly pretty good.

Watch Murder In The Outback: The Falconio & Lees Mystery Online: Free Streaming & Catch Up TV in Australia

Watch, Stream & Catch Up with your favourite Murder In The Outback: The Falconio & Lees Mystery episodes on 7plus. Murder in the Outback reopens the disputed case of British tourist Peter Falconio who disappeared in the Australian outback in 2001.

7plus.com.au

Rewatched that last night.

Obviously delivered with a heavy defence slant but the real footage of Lees trying to make the narrative fit is damning imo.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Rewatched that last night.

Obviously delivered with a heavy defence slant but the real footage of Lees trying to make the narrative fit is damning imo.

Bones of contention.
1/ how many people no matter how strong, can pick up a dead body?
2/ her statement said she got from the Ute to the cabin threw the back window?
3/ as per the judgement convicted on nearly zero weighted evidence.
4/ original statements by JL, Truckie and male policeman are where my thoughts lay.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Bones of contention.
1/ how many people no matter how strong, can pick up a dead body?
2/ her statement said she got from the Ute to the cabin threw the back window?
3/ as per the judgement convicted on nearly zero weighted evidence.
4/ original statements by JL, Truckie and male policeman are where my thoughts lay.

Murdoch was a man mountain so I doubt he'd struggle to be honest so thats never been an issue for me.

There are a few times throughout Lees account/reenactments where she leads with the original narrative and hesitates as she realises its not really likely or possible. She's obviously intelligent, but way out of her comfort zone in the setting and the inconsistencies highlight that.

Agreed, they needed Lees to identify Murdoch to support the dna evidence that couldnt stand up alone, and she only identified him after his picture was made public online.
Aileron barman says he is 6ft tall and stranger who spoke with Lees was of equal height which fits the height of cctv man in AS servo.
Barman is 6' or 185cm
Servo man 187cm
Murdoch was 6'5" or 197cm

Truckie suggests they forged the first 2 pages of his statement.

 

[CredibleSauce]

Bones of contention.
1/ how many people no matter how strong, can pick up a dead body?
2/ her statement said she got from the Ute to the cabin threw the back window?
3/ as per the judgement convicted on nearly zero weighted evidence.
4/ original statements by JL, Truckie and male policeman are where my thoughts lay.

The climbing into the canopy part is something that really bothers me, I’ve never ever known anyone to convert a landcruiser back window in a way that would allow you to access the tray (inside of the canopy) from the cab, and can’t find a photo anywhere of the interior of Murdoch’s ute showing that it would be possible, or of the exterior with any signs of a conversion of that nature. I’d happily eat my words if someone can show me, but it makes no sense to me at this stage.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

The climbing into the canopy part is something that really bothers me, I’ve never ever known anyone to convert a landcruiser back window in a way that would allow you to access the tray (inside of the canopy) from the cab, and can’t find a photo anywhere of the interior of Murdoch’s ute showing that it would be possible, or of the exterior with any signs of a conversion of that nature. I’d happily eat my words if someone can show me, but it makes no sense to me at this stage.

There was a bloke in warrnambool matching the description with the same car, and he was in the paper because he got pulled up 9 times, and he said everytime the coppers would look in the back and immediately say " you're all clear no rear access to cabin".
That story was in the warrnambool standard more than once.
The super sleuths can say anything they want but police Australia wide were told and all newspapers carried the story about what car to look for.
Not altered cars
Not maybe this model.
But definitely a certain model with rear access
I distinctly remember the story in the papers and remember the warrnambool bloke being in the paper and on the news for that exact reason and was astonished when Murdoch's car DIDNT fit the bill.

 

[theouthouse]

I have seen reference that the log used by PF of the Kombi's movements had the exact mileage of a return trip to Sedan from Bolivar unaccounted for in the entries.
If that is accurate, the coincidences start to stack up.

Why would Murdoch cue Falconio and/or Lees into the Sedan place, for extra cash as he was feeling a bit of heat? And the brits stole some smoke and cash from the sedan dealer?

Murdoch was a man mountain so I doubt he'd struggle to be honest so thats never been an issue for me.

I would assume he wouldn't really be equipped to pack up a body into a bag so he would have likely had blood on himself/clothes even being unaware of it in the dark, if moving a body with a gunshot into the back of a ute.

So if he's entering a servo store a few hours later, how's he fully cleaned himself up to not get questions asked.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Why would Murdoch cue Falconio and/or Lees into the Sedan place, for extra cash as he was feeling a bit of heat? And the brits stole some smoke and cash from the sedan dealer?





I would assume he wouldn't really be equipped to pack up a body into a bag so he would have likely had blood on himself/clothes even being unaware of it in the dark, if moving a body with a gunshot into the back of a ute.

So if he's entering a servo store a few hours later, how's he fully cleaned himself up to not get questions asked.

There is suggestion that the Feds were onto them running drugs to Broome and were using backpackers to get them through to AS.
Can only guess it was safer to bring vehicle to pickip point in Sedan rather than drugs to metro Adelaide.

As was said in the 4 part series, apart from the large blood stain and 2 smaller ones there was no other blood trail, so how he could have moved PF to the ute tray without leaving a trail is a mystery.
Then he supposedly returned to AS with body still in ute as they reckon he buried him along the Tanami track after the AS servo visit.
Makes no sense.

 

[norway blue]

There's this four parter, if you haven't seen it. It's surprisingly pretty good.

Watch Murder In The Outback: The Falconio & Lees Mystery Online: Free Streaming & Catch Up TV in Australia

Watch, Stream & Catch Up with your favourite Murder In The Outback: The Falconio & Lees Mystery episodes on 7plus. Murder in the Outback reopens the disputed case of British tourist Peter Falconio who disappeared in the Australian outback in 2001.

7plus.com.au

Thanks Kurve

 

[royboys4eva]

I was living in the Territory when the Falconio murder happened - hence I have always had a big interest in the case before and after.

I spoke with a mate who was cop up there after Murdoch was found guilty. He had a few interesting things to say.

First of all he said there is no doubt Murdoch is guilty - everything led to him and him alone. Secondly he said Lees was a bit flaky but many put that down to the immense trauma she went through and that should not be under estimated - he did however say - that many still have questions about her story and some things didn't make sense - did they know Murdoch previously?

Thirdly and most interesting - Murdoch was a very bad man and the Police were well aware of him and that he had done a lot of bad sh!t. He didn't want to elaborate but basically said people had gone missing / assaults and he is was always high on the list of suspects. When this murder took place he was one of the first people they suspected - low and behold he was in the area and his DNA found on Lees clothes and in the vehicle.

I know many will disregard what I have said, but the DNA is proof he did it. I think most acknowledge that. Why he did it is open to discussion but let's not forget he was a dangerous man who had a history of assaults and rape charges. In my opinion he was never going to divulge where the body was - he probably can't even remember - it was dark and in the middle of Australia?

Also is it true that he confessed in the early days to a fellow inmate ? I thought I read that somewhere and the other guy was wired? Could be wrong?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I was living in the Territory when the Falconio murder happened - hence I have always had a big interest in the case before and after.

I spoke with a mate who was cop up there after Murdoch was found guilty. He had a few interesting things to say.

First of all he said there is no doubt Murdoch is guilty - everything led to him and him alone. Secondly he said Lees was a bit flaky but many put that down to the immense trauma she went through and that should not be under estimated - he did however say - that many still have questions about her story and some things didn't make sense - did they know Murdoch previously?

Thirdly and most interesting - Murdoch was a very bad man and the Police were well aware of him and that he had done a lot of bad sh!t. He didn't want to elaborate but basically said people had gone missing / assaults and he is was always high on the list of suspects. When this murder took place he was one of the first people they suspected - low and behold he was in the area and his DNA found on Lees clothes and in the vehicle.

I know many will disregard what I have said, but the DNA is proof he did it. I think most acknowledge that. Why he did it is open to discussion but let's not forget he was a dangerous man who had a history of assaults and rape charges. In my opinion he was never going to divulge where the body was - he probably can't even remember - it was dark and in the middle of Australia?

Also is it true that he confessed in the early days to a fellow inmate ? I thought I read that somewhere and the other guy was wired? Could be wrong?

Interesting.

Interesting because you were pretty damning of Murdoch in post #561, yet didnt back any of it up with, or mention, what your cop mate told you.

 

[CredibleSauce]

There is suggestion that the Feds were onto them running drugs to Broome and were using backpackers to get them through to AS.
Can only guess it was safer to bring vehicle to pickip point in Sedan rather than drugs to metro Adelaide.

As was said in the 4 part series, apart from the large blood stain and 2 smaller ones there was no other blood trail, so how he could have moved PF to the ute tray without leaving a trail is a mystery.
Then he supposedly returned to AS with body still in ute as they reckon he buried him along the Tanami track after the AS servo visit.
Makes no sense.

Does that mean his body should have been in the tray when she climbed from the cab into the tray to escape?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Does that mean his body should have been in the tray when she climbed from the cab into the tray to escape?

Well thats the thing, if we believe Lees account, Falconio is shot and moments later the gunman is standing at the drivers door, that makes sense.
Problem is, for that to be the case, Falconio must still be lying where he fell.

Lees then says shes pushed across to the Kombi's passenger seat where she is manacled and then pushed out the passenger door onto the gravel shoulder where the gunman attemlts to gag and bind her ankles with tape.
Just on that, people will suggest Murdoch is experienced at abducting people, hence the pre made manacles, yet rather than have a 2nd set for his victims ankles, he carries with him a roll of electrical tape that he uses a mere 70cm of to unsuccessfully bind her ankles, doesnt sound very well rehearsed to me, lol.
At this point, there has been no time to move Falconio yet, so he must still be lying where he fell.

If you watch Lees re-enactment, at one point she is positioned between the rear of the Kombi and front of Murdochs ute, which considering the above timeline, Falconio should be lying right next to her.
She then says in the re-enactment that she cant remember whether she was standing there when the gunman put the sack over her head or if she was next to the passenger side of the gunmans ute, so if he reached up under his canvas tray cover to retrieve the sack as she claims, he either left her standing by herself or she didnt have the sack over her head yet, if she didnt have the sack over her head whilst between the two vehicles, how could she not see Falconio?

She claims to then be put in the passenger seat of the ute, during which time the sack falls off her head, finds herself sitting next to his motionless dog, the interior light is on, the only chance she could have seen the dog to later identify it in detail, she attempts to escape through the drivers door but cant get past the dog and it is at this point that she claims to have been pushed between the seats into the ute tray, so again, there has been no time for the gunman to move Falconios body.
When you consider how long all that would have taken, leaving a body on the white line where the bloodstain was discovered would have had it in full view of anyone who may have come past, highly risky for a bloke as cunning and experienced as some would suggest.

So then Lees claims from the ute tray she has a back and forth conversation with the gunman about what his intentions are, does he want money, is he going to sexually assault her, did he shoot Pete. She then claims to have manouvred her manacled hands from back to front, and somehow escaped from the rear of the tray, over the closed tailgate and under the zipped/bungeyed canvas canopy and runs off 30m into the bush to hide.
All whilst Falconio is still lying where he fell as according to physical evidence at the scene, he isnt moved anywhere other than the gunmans ute tray and as weve seen in the timeline, there has been no chance to move him yet and Lees hasnt seen him either between the vehicles or in the tray.
It makes absolutely no sense at all and I believe thats why she gave a narrative and then hesitated throughout the reenactment when she realised her verbal narrative couldnt be converted to actual events.

Her entire story has holes, the gun that featured scrolls like on the side of the Kombi that no one has ever seen another example of.
The dog, which was the same as the one in the barrow creek pub and the sack of which there was one hanging on the door of the barrow creek pub.
When confronted with all these coincidences she cracked the sads.

People will say she was traumatised, and she probably was, so her account might not be perfect, but it seems convenient to excuse the countless holes in her story and believe only the parts that led to a conviction when we know the dna wouldnt stand up on its own and her photo lineup that gave it weight was tainted.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Lees, when you think about it, is the luckiest, unlucky person on the planet.

Unlucky to encounter a random gunman on a lonely, desolit road, prepared to go 200km+ out of his way whilst in the midsts of another drug run, to chase down and commit murder to get access to an unremarkable woman, whom he then lets escape having seen him, his gun, his vehicle and dog.

Lucky, however, that he didnt manacle her ankles to prevent her escape full stop, that the bag fell off her head just in time to identify the dog and that the light was on to aid that identification, lucky to have been pushed between the seats of a 1 of a kind 70 series Landcruiser ute that no one had seen modified as such before or after, so that she could mount her escape unseen and that the above mentioned dog wasnt used to find her a mere 30 meters away.

 

[DropBearess]

Well thats the thing, if we believe Lees account, Falconio is shot and moments later the gunman is standing at the drivers door, that makes sense.
Problem is, for that to be the case, Falconio must still be lying where he fell.

Lees then says shes pushed across to the Kombi's passenger seat where she is manacled and then pushed out the passenger door onto the gravel shoulder where the gunman attemlts to gag and bind her ankles with tape.
Just on that, people will suggest Murdoch is experienced at abducting people, hence the pre made manacles, yet rather than have a 2nd set for his victims ankles, he carries with him a roll of electrical tape that he uses a mere 70cm of to unsuccessfully bind her ankles, doesnt sound very well rehearsed to me, lol.
At this point, there has been no time to move Falconio yet, so he must still be lying where he fell.

If you watch Lees re-enactment, at one point she is positioned between the rear of the Kombi and front of Murdochs ute, which considering the above timeline, Falconio should be lying right next to her.
She then says in the re-enactment that she cant remember whether she was standing there when the gunman put the sack over her head or if she was next to the passenger side of the gunmans ute, so if he reached up under his canvas tray cover to retrieve the sack as she claims, he either left her standing by herself or she didnt have the sack over her head yet, if she didnt have the sack over her head whilst between the two vehicles, how could she not see Falconio?

She claims to then be put in the passenger seat of the ute, during which time the sack falls off her head, finds herself sitting next to his motionless dog, the interior light is on, the only chance she could have seen the dog to later identify it in detail, she attempts to escape through the drivers door but cant get past the dog and it is at this point that she claims to have been pushed between the seats into the ute tray, so again, there has been no time for the gunman to move Falconios body.
When you consider how long all that would have taken, leaving a body on the white line where the bloodstain was discovered would have had it in full view of anyone who may have come past, highly risky for a bloke as cunning and experienced as some would suggest.

So then Lees claims from the ute tray she has a back and forth conversation with the gunman about what his intentions are, does he want money, is he going to sexually assault her, did he shoot Pete. She then claims to have manouvred her manacled hands from back to front, and somehow escaped from the rear of the tray, over the closed tailgate and under the zipped/bungeyed canvas canopy and runs off 30m into the bush to hide.
All whilst Falconio is still lying where he fell as according to physical evidence at the scene, he isnt moved anywhere other than the gunmans ute tray and as weve seen in the timeline, there has been no chance to move him yet and Lees hasnt seen him either between the vehicles or in the tray.
It makes absolutely no sense at all and I believe thats why she gave a narrative and then hesitated throughout the reenactment when she realised her verbal narrative couldnt be converted to actual events.

Her entire story has holes, the gun that featured scrolls like on the side of the Kombi that no one has ever seen another example of.
The dog, which was the same as the one in the barrow creek pub and the sack of which there was one hanging on the door of the barrow creek pub.
When confronted with all these coincidences she cracked the sads.

People will say she was traumatised, and she probably was, so her account might not be perfect, but it seems convenient to excuse the countless holes in her story and believe only the parts that led to a conviction when we know the dna wouldnt stand up on its own and her photo lineup that gave it weight was tainted.

Nailed it. I find it astonishing that NT Police didn't or couldn't buy the the obviously ridiculous Joanne story. It wouldn't be the first time a LE has become besotted with a 'victim', resulting in justice not being done.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Nailed it. I find it astonishing that NT Police didn't or couldn't buy the the obviously ridiculous Joanne story. It wouldn't be the first time a LE has become besotted with a 'victim', resulting in justice not being done.

Thanks!

Its the same as the Milat conviction, blind Freddy can see he didnt act alone, yet Small was satisfied as he got a conviction and made Sydanee safe for the Olympics.
NT LE weren't interested in solving the mystery, just getting a conviction to protect the Territories tourism dollars.

 

[Cataholic]

Bones of contention.
1/ how many people no matter how strong, can pick up a dead body?
2/ her statement said she got from the Ute to the cabin threw the back window?
3/ as per the judgement convicted on nearly zero weighted evidence.
4/ original statements by JL, Truckie and male policeman are where my thoughts lay.

He was 6' 5", apparently strong enough to lift Peter's lifeless body into his ute, but not strong enough to overpower a manacled woman to bind her ankles?

Upon being confronted that no such vehicle allows access to the rear through the seats she said she no longer remembered how she was moved from one vehicle to the other.

 

[Lace_Out]

Now we are into Milat.. this could go anywhere lol.

Did the balangalo (spellcheck) forest backpacker murders stop after they got Milat?

 

[Cataholic]

........
If you watch Lees re-enactment, at one point she is positioned between the rear of the Kombi and front of Murdochs ute, which considering the above timeline, Falconio should be lying right next to her.
She then says in the re-enactment that she cant remember whether she was standing there when the gunman put the sack over her head or if she was next to the passenger side of the gunmans ute, so if he reached up under his canvas tray cover to retrieve the sack as she claims, he either left her standing by herself or she didnt have the sack over her head yet, if she didnt have the sack over her head whilst between the two vehicles, how could she not see Falconio?

She claims to then be put in the passenger seat of the ute, during which time the sack falls off her head, finds herself sitting next to his motionless dog, the interior light is on, the only chance she could have seen the dog to later identify it in detail, she attempts to escape through the drivers door but cant get past the dog and it is at this point that she claims to have been pushed between the seats into the ute tray, so again, there has been no time for the gunman to move Falconios body.

Yep, the timeline says Peter wasn't in the ute when JL did the impossible and climbed through the front seats to get into the rear, so Peter's still laying on the road.

In her initial statements she said BM had his headlights on, so she couldn't help but see Peter laying there if she was standing between the two vehicles as BM put the sack over her head.

And if she was walked to the passenger side of the ute before the sack was put over her head she would've been walked straight past Peter laying on the ground in the field of the headlight beams. How did she still not see him?

But then she changes her story and says the headlights couldn't have been on otherwise she surely would've looked around for Peter, and she no longer remembered how she was moved between the two vehicles.

Hmm.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Now we are into Milat.. this could go anywhere lol.

Did the balangalo (spellcheck) forest backpacker murders stop after they got Milat?

The body count within that part of Belanglo ceased but thats not to say there arent more in other parts of the forest/plantation.
Its widely believed that Milat killed and dumped all over NSW due to his job as a roadworker taking him far and wide.
Just because the killings that are associated with Ivan stopped, doesnt mean he acted alone in them.

His Nephew would use it as a place to kill and Karlie Pearce-Stevenson was found in Belanglo although not a Milat crime.
Its a bloody freaky place to visit I can tell you that.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Yep, the timeline says Peter wasn't in the ute when JL did the impossible and climbed through the front seats to get into the rear, so Peter's still laying on the road.

In her initial statements she said BM had his headlights on, so she couldn't help but see Peter laying there if she was standing between the two vehicles as BM put the sack over her head.

And if she was walked to the passenger side of the ute before the sack was put over her head she would've been walked straight past Peter laying on the ground in the field of the headlight beams. How did she still not see him?

But then she changes her story and says the headlights couldn't have been on otherwise she surely would've looked around for Peter, and she no longer remembered how she was moved between the two vehicles.

Hmm.

Its one thing to say, this is what happened, but part of the reason Police do re-enactments is to see it done in real life/time and how those taking part hesitate or change their narrative when confronted with aspects that dont fit.
Lees is obviously intelligent and quickly realises throughout that aspects of her narrative cant be explained during the exercise at which point she looks for direction externally.

 

[DropBearess]

I'm perplexed in that JL never adequately described the size of her "attacker". We have a family member of the same dimensions as BM. Wherever we go, he is noticed for his presence. We can find him in big crowds.

My question:-
If the ambush was true and BM had already shot PF, why didn't BM just poke the same gun in JL's driver's window and shoot her? He could have done this by simply leaning across the roof without her ever seeing his face.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

He was 6' 5", apparently strong enough to lift Peter's lifeless body into his ute, but not strong enough to overpower a manacled woman to bind her ankles?

Upon being confronted that no such vehicle allows access to the rear through the seats she said she no longer remembered how she was moved from one vehicle to the other.

I worked as a detailer for SA's 2 biggest Toyota dealers through the late 90's and early 00's and I can hand on heart say Ive never seen a 70 series cruiser ute with that type of acces and Ive worked on a few.
Infact the only ute I have seen with access from cab to canopied tray was a small sliding window on a D40 Navara.

 

[Cataholic]

I worked as a detailer for SA's 2 biggest Toyota dealers through the late 90's and early 00's and I can hand on heart say Ive never seen a 70 series cruiser ute with that type of acces and Ive worked on a few.
Infact the only ute I have seen with access from cab to canopied tray was a small sliding window on a D40 Navara.

That aspect of her story obviously wasn't true.

It then follows that she was either never in the rear of the ute, or she's completely forgotten being forced to climb into it in the first instance, which would change her story yet again.