The positives - its a Shaw thing

[Coopers]

Petrenko has played 40 AFL games (39 if you discount last week, when his participation lasted just 4 seconds). Mackay has played 67 and Vince has 92. How many games does it take before you think we're in a valid position to make a decision about these players?

*** As a point of reference, Wellman played 34 games for Adelaide before being traded to Essendon. He played 17 games in both '94 & '95. He went on to play a total of 212 games in his AFL career.

Wright is 22 1/2 years old, Martin is 23 1/2. I can accept that talls take longer to develop, but these guys are mid/small players. Shouldn't we be expecting more from someone who has been around for that long (noting that neither were drafted as minimum age recruits).

McKernan is in his 4th year on our list and still doesn't consistently make South's best players list in the SANFL. In contrast, Walker made a name for himself in the SANFL in his debut season and will line up for his 50th AFL game this weekend. Sure, talls take longer - but how long do we give Smack before accepting that he's just no good?

Johnston has been in the system as long as McKernan for even less return - just 2 games in 3 years with Sydney. Heck, even McKernan has managed 18 games. I think it says a lot about him that Sydney were prepared to throw in the steak knives when all we sent back their way was Tony Armstrong.

That just leaves Lynch & Lyons. Lynch has done OK to date and I don't see anyone writing him off. Lyons was a late round draftee 18 months ago and is now a regular feature on his SANFL team's best players list - I think most of us would be fairly happy with his progress.

The answer is that we give them until the end of their contract to see if they are any good.

Duh.

 

[earlsta]

Very impressive young lad, have you guys heard his press conference? Talks very very well, looks like a leader to me.

 

[Jetwa5h]

Shaw is a midfielder?

I ended up standing near him at the Shed after the game, he looked every inch the young KPP to me, and he's more like 195cm. Unrelated, Rory's better half was more than a bit of alright, bloody footballers

I didnt know stabby was that attractive

 

[bigman]

Very impressive young lad, have you guys heard his press conference? Talks very very well, looks like a leader to me.

I am pretty sure he was School captain for Xavier in Melbourne or one of the school leaders at least

 

[Geoffa32]

Watching him on Saturday he reminded me of a young Ben Hart, but a bit bigger.

Number 34 helped as well.

 

[Carmo]

Petrenko has played 40 AFL games (39 if you discount last week, when his participation lasted just 4 seconds). Mackay has played 67 and Vince has 92. How many games does it take before you think we're in a valid position to make a decision about these players?

*** As a point of reference, Wellman played 34 games for Adelaide before being traded to Essendon. He played 17 games in both '94 & '95. He went on to play a total of 212 games in his AFL career.

Wright is 22 1/2 years old, Martin is 23 1/2. I can accept that talls take longer to develop, but these guys are mid/small players. Shouldn't we be expecting more from someone who has been around for that long (noting that neither were drafted as minimum age recruits).

McKernan is in his 4th year on our list and still doesn't consistently make South's best players list in the SANFL. In contrast, Walker made a name for himself in the SANFL in his debut season and will line up for his 50th AFL game this weekend. Sure, talls take longer - but how long do we give Smack before accepting that he's just no good?

Johnston has been in the system as long as McKernan for even less return - just 2 games in 3 years with Sydney. Heck, even McKernan has managed 18 games. I think it says a lot about him that Sydney were prepared to throw in the steak knives when all we sent back their way was Tony Armstrong.

That just leaves Lynch & Lyons. Lynch has done OK to date and I don't see anyone writing him off. Lyons was a late round draftee 18 months ago and is now a regular feature on his SANFL team's best players list - I think most of us would be fairly happy with his progress.

I'll only address one part of your reply directly - I included Lyons because although most people are happy with him now, many people were far less confident in the pre-season. What's changed? Played a few games, bit of time has gone by.

I nearly started a thread on the other topic, (which I rate as important as who you recruit/draft) and that's how do you decide how long to keep them for or when to let them go.

I am interested to look at a couple of examples to illustrate tthe range, who came in and made an impact straight away, then what was their form curve from there. Judd, Black, Daniel Rich and Dalhaus come to mind here.

What about the other end of the extreme, who took a long time to come on but ended up very good, Sandilands is one that springs to mind, Cox another he was way slower to come on than Gardiner but probably had a higher ceiling in the end. In terms of non KP players I can remember akermanis in the system a while before I really thought he was dominant, same with damien hardwick.

What would the average pathway of performance for someone to be a 200 game / 10year player be, what complicating factors might keep someone on the list (injuries for example)?


For me, we are in a funny situation, to be a good team, you have to have above average players. I think Vince and Mackay are above average players. Thing is, I think the normal progression to a dominant team is that you have an old dominant mid field surrounded by your up and comers and a few solid players as well. However, we look like we'll end up the other way around. For whatever reason, most of the recent young players seem to be better at midfield roles than many of the veterans and while not yet elite are more than solid even at this early stage. So I can see us the opposite way around. An emerging young midfield (danger, sloan, lyons, smith, crouch) with more than handy players like vince, mackay, douglas around the outside. Well that's the theory anyway, either that or where just going to be in the bottom half for a while.....

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

We've done OK with our 1st & 2nd round draft picks since Fantasia was sent packing. Prior to that our record was nothing short of abysmal. However, since Rendell took over it's been pretty good - considering the picks he had to work with. Hopefully Ogilvie will continue in the Rendell tradition.

Do we overrate Rendells performance somewhat? Are some of these great picks we have had over the last few years due to him or due to the team of recruiters he has out in the field? Somehow I don't think Rendall would be sitting out in the wet watching the Pooraka Under 18's. Provided our guys out in the field haven't changed since Rendalls departure, I'm hoing his sacking will not have too big an impact.

 

[Vader]

Do we overrate Rendells performance somewhat? Are some of these great picks we have had over the last few years due to him or due to the team of recruiters he has out in the field? Somehow I don't think Rendall would be sitting out in the wet watching the Pooraka Under 18's. Provided our guys out in the field haven't changed since Rendalls departure, I'm hoing his sacking will not have too big an impact.

A bit of both.

My understanding is that Fantasia pretty much played a lone hand, while Rendell was far more trusting & reliant upon his "team" of recruiters. Like you, I too am hoping that his departure won't prove too disruptive given the network that we now have in place.

 

[Allefgib]

Do we overrate Rendells performance somewhat? Are some of these great picks we have had over the last few years due to him or due to the team of recruiters he has out in the field? Somehow I don't think Rendall would be sitting out in the wet watching the Pooraka Under 18's. Provided our guys out in the field haven't changed since Rendalls departure, I'm hoping his sacking will not have too big an impact.

Well given Hamish is stepping up, presumably at some point in the chain of recruiting roles there has been a change.

 

[bigman]

Very impressive young lad, have you guys heard his press conference? Talks very very well, looks like a leader to me.

Earlstar how impressive was he.

He spoke like he had played for the past five years.

He is a boy of real character.

We have recruited some much better in the Rendell years except for the Rookie draft last year when we went for Roach - playing for Adelaide uni now and Von bertouch and a few others.

Milera was a bust but there is no doubt just like his brother he could play.

Wait to crouching tiger plays next year. Cannot wait.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Earlstar how impressive was he.

He spoke like he had played for the past five years.

He is a boy of real character.

We have recruited some much better in the Rendell years except for the Rookie draft last year when we went for Roach - playing for Adelaide uni now and Von bertouch and a few others.

Milera was a bust but there is no doubt just like his brother he could play.

Wait to crouching tiger plays next year. Cannot wait.

not sure what happens here .......there seems a pattern that with players, who obviously show something to get rookied or drafted, when they get cut invariably they disappear

You would have thought they could go back to state leagues, develop the talent previously identified, and make a reasonable career for them selves .....but no they simply disappear onto the social circuit

Whatever happened to:
Chad Gibson
Josh Krueger
Jarryn Jacky
Mike Cook
Aaron Kite
James Moss
Brad Sugars
Tom Redden
Sam Elliot
James Turner
Andrew Mcintyre
Ryan Nye

 

[cmndstab]

I didnt know stabby was that attractive

You should have asked, I would have told you

 

[bigman]

I think one of the key positives to come out of the match was the form of Sam Shaw.

I have been talking him up for a few years but I thought he showed that he could play in any number of positions on the ground and become a good player for us.

He is a midfielder but at 193cm he can also play as a KPP at a pinch.

I thought he made some good decisions given it was his first game and he can beat his opponent for pace. He gives us some rebound off half back - something we really lack and the advantage of his left foot was seen on a number of occasions.

We really need to get some run and carry off our half back line and he could be the man.

He still is a little flighty in the air at times but he has the capacity to be one of the new players in our team with some good pace and better decison marking ability to go with his height.

I have also called for some time to uncage the Lyon. Its now time to test him in senior company. He is not overly quick but he is a footballer and can kick goals and can kick well over 50m. We need some really good kicks in our side.

I feel by the end of the year we will have a different lookin side to the one we have now, as the young players make increasing cases for their inclusion at the expense of some of the more experienced, who appear unable to sustain their intensity and form for weeks on end.

We cannot play every young player - but young Laird looks like he has the stuff to make a player at the next level. Kerridge too appeals as a player who will in time be a long standing player at the club and an important part of our team.

Brown is another who I would like to get into the side but he needs to string some more good games together for Norwood.

Get some pace, good kickers and good decision makers into your side and you will find that other players around them will play better.

I fear this year will frustrate a lot of us, but it will be a year where we see the new players with skills, speed and better decision making ability get introduced as the older players continue to fail under pressure.

I think the next 4-5 weeks will show Sando a lot about our players and the need to cull some of the underperforming players from our list. Over time the transformation of the team will begin.

Good to see that some ofthese things are coming to fruition.

Now we just need to add Grigg to the mix and get Shaw fit again.

Really happy for Rory Laird to be part of this group

 

[AdelaideFan14]

Good to see that some ofthese things are coming to fruition.

Now we just need to add Grigg to the mix and get Shaw fit again.

Really happy for Rory Laird to be part of this group

Have you seen Atkins and Hartigan play this year? What are your thoughts on them?

 

[Glenno23]

bigman does it again!

 

[maxlilly]

Well done bigman, on the money again.
You are quite the visionary.
Always great to read your posts, a very good eye for talent

 

[bigman]

Have you seen Atkins and Hartigan play this year? What are your thoughts on them?

Hartigan could play CHB or FB now - but he has as you would expect struggled a little with the move interstate - he is only 21 or 22.

I like Roos' idea of Talia being tried at CHF at some stage during year - in case we need to in a critical game. Talia could only go forward if Hartigan was in the team or the oppositons forward line was small.

Hartigan can play on the gorillas.

Rory Mark 3 has real talent and has some X factor - the big issue for him will be the ability to use it at the next level on a consistent basis given the high level of scrutiny he will be under. If he can mature and do this he will be a player. It has laways come easy for him - now he will have to fight for his place.