Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[Sully111]

Know a cop that worked in remote rural communities with his wife (also a cop). Genuinely nice people. They went there full of hope, wanting to make a difference by working with the community etc. They left completely disillusioned and a bit broken.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Imagine thinking that’s the point

Imagine seeing and hearing so much racism and stereotyping in your lifetime about Aboriginal people that you are unsure who is being sarcastic, who is making a point, who is a blatant racist or who just has no idea.

 

[CursingFijian]

Know a cop that worked in rural communities with his wife (also a cop). Genuinely nice people. They went there full of hope, wanting to make a difference by working with the community etc. They left completely disillusioned and a bit broken.

Imagine how broken you must get when you are actually living there.

 

[True Believer]

And there is the typical stereotyped response from someone who has no idea about Aboriginal communities. Saw a few clips maybe? Read a few articles? Did a bit of research perhaps? Watched a news item on Alice? The fact that you think this is close to happening in most Aboriginal communities is nothing short of ignorance. Your one of those who probably label the stole generation was a good thing and think that drugs and alcohol are rampant in all communities. Your response is probably the most laughable I have read. Empowering Aboriginal people to empower others in the communities is the key. This starts with trusting governments and authorities again. A voice will empower and allow Aboriginal people to take pride in empowering communities.

What a load of clap trap. As a matter of fact I have been a regular visitor to the far north for work over many years and was in Darwin as recently as 10 weeks ago!! And stepping over drunk people in the middle of the afternoon, avoiding park areas because of the groups of drunks brawling, driving past housing where the locals are already outside getting wasted at 7:30 in the morning, are all very frequent occurrences.

Explain to me why Indigenous women are 34 times more likely to be admitted to hospital as a result of DV than non-indigenous women if there is not a widespread issue with substance abuse and violence?? Explain why little kids in remote communities are vastly more likely to be sexually abused and be treated for STI's if there isn't an issue?

I didn't say this is every remote community, so don't put words in my mouth. And don't try and paint me as a racist because you don't like the truth!!

And don't make motherhood statements like "empowering Aboriginal people".......how is the average aboriginal person any more "empowered" by the voice than they are now? How are they currently any less empowered than any other Australian citizen? There are literally hundreds of bodies, councils, organizations and government entities charged solely with the care and betterment of Aboriginal lives and provision of services to Aboriginal people.

There are tax concessions, extra welfare allowances, priority on healthcare waiting lists, priority in educational places, priority in certain employment opportunities and priority for aboriginal owned businesses on government tenders, all available to Aboriginal people!!

The voice will do as much to improve the lot of those in the remote communities as Rudd's apology did.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Imagine seeing and hearing so much racism and stereotyping in your lifetime about Aboriginal people that you are unsure who is being sarcastic, who is making a point, who is a blatant racist or who just has no idea.

Imagine throwing random and unsolicited accusations and assertions around without digging deeper, then.
Do better.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Imagine throwing random and unsolicited accusations and assertions around without digging deeper, then.
Do better.

Not throwing accusations around at all, I am simply saying as an Aboriginal person who has experienced the most extreme of racism (stolen generation) it can be very difficult to ascertain the difference between sarcasm, racism or someone trying to make a point. At times you are not sure where the conversation is directed hence why my original response was that Aboriginal people do grow vegetable and fruit.

 

[George]

Imagine throwing random and unsolicited accusations and assertions around without digging deeper, then.
Do better.

Telling a Collingwood supporter to Do Better. I lol'd

Also

 

[South of the Yarra]

Telling a Collingwood supporter to Do Better. I lol'd

Also

In regards to ‘doing better’ for Aboriginal people. I can say I have done ‘my best’.

 

[George]

In regards to ‘doing better’ for Aboriginal people. I can say I have done ‘my best’.

Good for you mate

 

[DougalHoward]

The status quo isn't working, so vote no and continue the status quo is what I'm getting from this discussion.

 

[George]

The status quo isn't working, so vote no and continue the status quo is what I'm getting from this discussion.

The pamphlet that came in the mail today about it didn't even list the date that the vote was taking place lmao.

I doubt anyone actually cares.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Imagine seeing and hearing so much racism and stereotyping in your lifetime about Aboriginal people that you are unsure who is being sarcastic, who is making a point, who is a blatant racist or who just has no idea.

Well itd be the one saying racist stuff

If you are hearing so much racism then im guessing theyre racist


But carry on intruding

 

[phantom13]

The pamphlet that came in the mail today about it didn't even list the date that the vote was taking place lmao.

I doubt anyone actually cares.

Managed to generate a couple pages of discussion and got a non saints fan (who also happens to be Indigenous) in here as well.

I think a lot of people care.

 

[phantom13]

Well living in remote communities with almost zero employment opportunities, extremely limited access to modern health care, limited educational opportunities and horrendous school attendances, with rampant alcohol and substance abuse issues and levels of criminal activity will do that to you!

People's literacy doesn't improve if parents can't be bothered making sure their kids attend school !! If you spend your days sitting around drunk or drugged, and brawling and have poor diet and lifestyle, guess what - your life expectancy falls, dramatically! Explain how the voice will change any of those things!!
You cannot make people do what is in their best interests if they have no interest or desire to change! And pretending that changing our constitution will fix those things is laughable.

I’ll have a crack at wading through the stereotypical racist tropes in here to answer your question.

Explain how the voice will change any of those things!!

The voice could provide actual recommendations from those in the community about how best to support those with substance abuse issues, spousal abuse issues, attendance issues etc. and implement programs or pathways that the communities themselves more likely would support and adhere to to assist in improving these conditions.

White Australia has had what, 120ish years to improve the welfare of Indigenous Australia and continues to fail, maybe listen to them for change.

I’ll tell you a little story. In a previous job I worked with prisons vic in project management. As part of this role I did engagement with the local indigenous community about project investment for diversionary pathways. Think of it as a mini voice providing recommendations to keep young indigenous kids out of prison and youth remand. As part of this a nominal percentage of new project budget was set aside to assist in implementing recommendations provided by local indigenous elders. Now I’m the past this fund was used to give already incarcerated indigenous people a men’s shed or a yarning circle. On this project the elders engaged with their community and requested a community basketball court in a remote town be built and some ongoing funding provided to run a community hoops comp, employ some indigenous locals to build it and run the comp.

The rate of offending in this town dropped substantially in the two years after this program was implemented. Direct advice from community leading to direct positive outcomes and ironically the total cost was about half of what we would have utilized as well.

 

[gringo2011]

Many already do

Israel have desert areas that are really fertile you can do things that make land more useable.That Kibbutz model might work in central Australia.

Know a cop that worked in remote rural communities with his wife (also a cop). Genuinely nice people. They went there full of hope, wanting to make a difference by working with the community etc. They left completely disillusioned and a bit broken.

It's not easy, there is severe disfunction in a lot of them. That's what I was saying about role models. If your role models are directionless you'll grow up the same. They also know that you can carry generational trauma so you are starting from a long way back. That's why you try to educate a few and hopefully break the cycle. What they are doing now isn't working so somehow we are going to have to fix it. Doing nothing just lets it continue.

 

[Mowman]

I’ll have a crack at wading through the stereotypical racist tropes in here to answer your question.

Explain how the voice will change any of those things!!

The voice could provide actual recommendations from those in the community about how best to support those with substance abuse issues, spousal abuse issues, attendance issues etc. and implement programs or pathways that the communities themselves more likely would support and adhere to to assist in improving these conditions.

White Australia has had what, 120ish years to improve the welfare of Indigenous Australia and continues to fail, maybe listen to them for change.

I’ll tell you a little story. In a previous job I worked with prisons vic in project management. As part of this role I did engagement with the local indigenous community about project investment for diversionary pathways. Think of it as a mini voice providing recommendations to keep young indigenous kids out of prison and youth remand. As part of this a nominal percentage of new project budget was set aside to assist in implementing recommendations provided by local indigenous elders. Now I’m the past this fund was used to give already incarcerated indigenous people a men’s shed or a yarning circle. On this project the elders engaged with their community and requested a community basketball court in a remote town be built and some ongoing funding provided to run a community hoops comp, employ some indigenous locals to build it and run the comp.

The rate of offending in this town dropped substantially in the two years after this program was implemented. Direct advice from community leading to direct positive outcomes and ironically the total cost was about half of what we would have utilized as well.

Different opinion then yours so must be racist
Poor from you imo

 

[gringo2011]

Not throwing accusations around at all, I am simply saying as an Aboriginal person who has experienced the most extreme of racism (stolen generation) it can be very difficult to ascertain the difference between sarcasm, racism or someone trying to make a point. At times you are not sure where the conversation is directed hence why my original response was that Aboriginal people do grow vegetable and fruit.

A lot of herbs sold in vic are grown in Queensland on indigenous farms. Coranderrk was set up in Victoria back in the day and was massively successful. So good we kicked them off the land and sent them to Lake Tyres and took it.

My cousin died during covid at 54, his old man was indigenous. I've seen how different he was treated growing up by people when they found out that he was indigenous. It took its toll on him. He was pissed off when he was young and then broken as he got older. People minimising the shit people go through is probably the shittiest thing of all. I would be in permanent rage if it was me.

 

[gringo2011]

Different opinion then yours so must be racist
Poor from you imo

He's saying that those tropes are racist, that everyone in the remote communities is a drunk wife basher I think. Not saying anyone that disagrees is racist.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Jesus Christ this is gonna go off the rails pretty quick

 

[Mowman]

He's saying that those tropes are racist, that everyone in the remote communities is a drunk wife basher I think. Not saying anyone that disagrees is racist.

But they are problems that need to be fixed

Throws the racist tag around a bit to much

 

[pebblesofsand]

I don't know what the answer is. The MP whose electorate includes Cape York and some of the remote communities with the worst records of dysfunction did a trace back and added up that Noel Pearson"s "Cape York Partnership" has hoovered up over $550m in funds since 2005 - are the people of Aurukun any better off for it?

So you don't know what the answer is, but incredibly you know enough to say that the pathway for consultation to help find solutions, which was developed by the aboriginal community after an extensive consultation process that was run by aboriginal leaders (independent of govt) and involved aboriginal communities nationwide, isn't the answer.


Astounding!!

 

[phantom13]

But they are problems that need to be fixed

Throws the racist tag around a bit to much

I dont think anywhere in that rambling fools post did he suggest fixing shit, he asked how the voice would fix it. I answered.

Stepping over the drunken Indigenous people while watching them bash their missus and not send their kid to school is racist trope though. Surely were not disputing that. Its also not conducive to any sort of productive convo to claim that that is all Indigenous communities and people.

Also important to note im not calling anyone a racist, i noted that those were standard racist tropes. If we cant discuss people saying racist shit without using the word racist or noting well worn racist stereotypes then were really never gonna get anywhere.

 

[True Believer]

I’ll have a crack at wading through the stereotypical racist tropes in here to answer your question.

Explain how the voice will change any of those things!!

The voice could provide actual recommendations from those in the community about how best to support those with substance abuse issues, spousal abuse issues, attendance issues etc. and implement programs or pathways that the communities themselves more likely would support and adhere to to assist in improving these conditions.

White Australia has had what, 120ish years to improve the welfare of Indigenous Australia and continues to fail, maybe listen to them for change.

I’ll tell you a little story. In a previous job I worked with prisons vic in project management. As part of this role I did engagement with the local indigenous community about project investment for diversionary pathways. Think of it as a mini voice providing recommendations to keep young indigenous kids out of prison and youth remand. As part of this a nominal percentage of new project budget was set aside to assist in implementing recommendations provided by local indigenous elders. Now I’m the past this fund was used to give already incarcerated indigenous people a men’s shed or a yarning circle. On this project the elders engaged with their community and requested a community basketball court in a remote town be built and some ongoing funding provided to run a community hoops comp, employ some indigenous locals to build it and run the comp.

The rate of offending in this town dropped substantially in the two years after this program was implemented. Direct advice from community leading to direct positive outcomes and ironically the total cost was about half of what we would have utilized as well.

Right, so these are just racist tropes, and I'm a rambling fool, yeah? So chronically poor school attendance, substance abuse, violence and youth crime aren't problems and the reasons for massive disparities in life expectancy, literacy, incarceration rates, health outcomes etc are all just a mystery?

If people can't be honest about the factors that contribute to and cause the issues, there will never be a resolution.

I can tell you this, handing that fool Albanese a blank cheque is going to achieve jack, other than sending the cheque account backwards.........

 

[BigPowerForward]

I dont think anywhere in that rambling fools post did he suggest fixing s**t, he asked how the voice would fix it. I answered.

Stepping over the drunken Indigenous people while watching them bash their missus and not send their kid to school is racist trope though. Surely were not disputing that. Its also not conducive to any sort of productive convo to claim that that is all Indigenous communities and people.

Also important to note im not calling anyone a racist, i noted that those were standard racist tropes. If we cant discuss people saying racist s**t without using the word racist or noting well worn racist stereotypes then were really never gonna get anywhere.

How is calling someone a rambling fool helpful to the discussion

Where you state "Its also not conducive to any sort of productive convo to claim that that is all Indigenous communities and people."
True Believer said "I didn't say this is every remote community, so don't put words in my mouth.

I too have been to Darwin lately and saw the things that True Believer described. Am I now saying racist s**t
And does anyone here really believe that billions of dollars are spent every year on indigenous welfare without any consultation with the indigenous communities they are trying to help.

 

[phantom13]

Right, so these are just racist tropes, and I'm a rambling fool, yeah? So chronically poor school attendance, substance abuse, violence and youth crime aren't problems and the reasons for massive disparities in life expectancy, literacy, incarceration rates, health outcomes etc are all just a mystery?

If people can't be honest about the factors that contribute to and cause the issues, there will never be a resolution.

I can tell you this, handing that fool Albanese a blank cheque is going to achieve jack, other than sending the cheque account backwards.........

Those are racist tropes yes. They are also real issues but presenting them the way you didnt isnt trying to solve them at all. It was feeding into the whole "they do this to themselves so why should it be my problem" narrative.

You are a rambling fool, youve suggested that the voice is going to lead to an Indigenous Parliament and autonomous control of all resources. That is alarmist nonsense and the change to constitution suggested by the voice doesnt go anywhere near that level of power. Written as an intent or not its ludicrous to suggest this one step would do that. It also echoes the SSM plebiscite "concerns" (remember people marrying kids and their pets thats how stupid your rambling sounds).

I agree with you about honesty and transparency but you still seem to think you can do that without frank and fearless advice from those MOST affected by those issues, Indigenous Australians.

Where is anyone suggesting handing Albo a blank cheque? As noted we sink billions into closing the gap anyway and its ineffective, how is getting advice from those were trying to help (which, again, is advice that can be ignored anyway) going to be a backwards step, at WORST its a sideways step.

On top of all of that my story demonstrates that at a micro level it worked very effectively, given we havent done shit to help why not try that on a macro level and see what happens.