The real issue standing between Carlton and success

[NumberEight]

We have one of the most talented lists going around and one of the best coaches if not the best in the game.

We have number 1 draft picks, speed and skill.

But do we have any intimidation factor? Any menace? I dont think so.

I recently watched an episode of ESPNs 30 for 30 documentaries, this one was about the Miami university football team in the 80s and early 90s.
Essentially they dominated an era and a big part of that was due to their intimidation of the oponent, a win at all cost mentality and a huge amount of self confidence.

Not only do we not possess this general menace out on the field, we rarely, if ever "fly the flag" for our own when being intimidated by the other team. In the last 2 weeks our new captain has gone down after being hit by someone from the other team and on both occations not a single Blue went to his aid or remonstrated with the offending player.

Does anybody else believe that we can not be truly successful until we adopt this Miami University mentality?

Just a thought

 

[BM123]

Murphy honestly should go and remonstrate with those guys since he is the captain as his decision in the nab cup to fall to the ground instead of showing a bit of aggression wasn't his best moment. We need a solid defense that stands under pressure and work on resolving our issues with a under performing midfield instead of worrying about a bit of push and shove with a few spud nigglers from other teams.

 

[ODNBlue]

I agree with the premise of this thread. The thing that I was most concerned about on Thursday night (besides the 42 point margin in the third) was the number of tackles that didn't stick. Tackling is where this aggression needs to be shown IMHO. There's no point going toe to toe with morons, much better to make them earn it every time they touch the ball. Our lack of tackling 'hardness' was one factor that cost us the game on Thursday

 

[Magruder]

I agree with the premise of this thread. The thing that I was most concerned about on Thursday night (besides the 42 point margin in the third) was the number of tackles that didn't stick. Tackling is where this aggression needs to be shown IMHO. There's no point going toe to toe with morons, much better to make them earn it every time they touch the ball. Our lack of tackling 'hardness' was one factor that cost us the game on Thursday

This!

I don't recall how many times I yelled, just ffffing stick a tackle

 

[Dramoth]

Given the fine line between a great tackle and an illegal tackle these days, I think we are always going to see tackles not sticking.

My biggest concern these days about the game is how it's turning into a soft game where people are too scared to go for the ball in case they infringe some bullshit rule.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

We have one of the most talented lists going around and one of the best coaches if not the best in the game.

We have number 1 draft picks, speed and skill.

But do we have any intimidation factor? Any menace? I dont think so.

I recently watched an episode of ESPNs 30 for 30 documentaries, this one was about the Miami university football team in the 80s and early 90s.
Essentially they dominated an era and a big part of that was due to their intimidation of the oponent, a win at all cost mentality and a huge amount of self confidence.

Not only do we not possess this general menace out on the field, we rarely, if ever "fly the flag" for our own when being intimidated by the other team. In the last 2 weeks our new captain has gone down after being hit by someone from the other team and on both occations not a single Blue went to his aid or remonstrated with the offending player.

Does anybody else believe that we can not be truly successful until we adopt this Miami University mentality?

Just a thought

I honestly doubt that anybody could replicate the intimidation and flair of "The U".

We just quite simply do not have the cattle to execute an intimidating game plan.

The only guys we have that can perhaps play this role: McLean, Scotland, Waite, Bell, Robbo.... and maybe Judd.

 

[LemonzZ2]

The amount of missed tackles was frustrating to say the least, most were on crucial points of the game.

Hopefully we develop collingwood 2010/2011 mentality

 

[GoBlues!]

I agree with the premise of this thread. The thing that I was most concerned about on Thursday night (besides the 42 point margin in the third) was the number of tackles that didn't stick. Tackling is where this aggression needs to be shown IMHO. There's no point going toe to toe with morons, much better to make them earn it every time they touch the ball. Our lack of tackling 'hardness' was one factor that cost us the game on Thursday

Pretty sure tackling and pressure on the opposition is key part of a Malthouse defensive game plan. Not sure what game plan they were playing to in the second quarter, if any, but it sure wasn't a defensive one.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Given the fine line between a great tackle and an illegal tackle these days, I think we are always going to see tackles not sticking.

My biggest concern these days about the game is how it's turning into a soft game where people are too scared to go for the ball in case they infringe some bullshit rule.

Yes, hesitation abounds. You can't go get the ball these days. Red hot on holding the ball, red hot on sliding in. Then if you opt to tackle instead, they are red hot on any touch to the back or head, and aggressive momentum tackles are out as they could turn into a sling.

Our problem is that we were wary of these things on Thursday but the Tigers just went in and got the ball. If someone does go in aggressively and gives away the free, we scream for days about how useless they are.

Lose/lose situation for players.

 

[rampar]

Carlton Have A Reputation For Being Soft. Opposition Know It. Crowd The Ball, Make The Game Congested And Contested.

Bell Should Play Every Game This Year.

 

[Erko Blue]

Carlton Have A Reputation For Being Soft. Opposition Know It. Crowd The Ball, Make The Game Congested And Contested.

Bell Should Play Every Game This Year.

Not sure why you continue to use capital letters for every word, surely it takes longer and is incorrect.

Anyway not a biggie,
I just hate feeling like William Shatner ever time I come across one of your posts.

 

[gandaal]

The thing standing between us and success is that we aren't anything more than mediocre as a team and a club.

Our players aren't anything special. There's nothing on our list that you can't find at most other clubs in terms of talent and skill.

Our recruiting has been ok but not brilliant. Our player development is weak and ineffectual.

 

[BM123]

These threads always turn into pointless club bashing and Its "almost" surprising that there is one after a single loss.

 

[NumberEight]

Yes, hesitation abounds. You can't go get the ball these days. Red hot on holding the ball, red hot on sliding in. Then if you opt to tackle instead, they are red hot on any touch to the back or head, and aggressive momentum tackles are out as they could turn into a sling.

Our problem is that we were wary of these things on Thursday but the Tigers just went in and got the ball. If someone does go in aggressively and gives away the free, we scream for days about how useless they are.

Lose/lose situation for players.

this is true.

but I would love to see someone really pound Pendles next week given the opportunity in a legal tackle.

I want to see Casboult break the ribs of whoever stands in his way.

I want to see US do the niggling instead of being niggled.

Its a general attitude and doesnt necessarily mean giving away free kicks

 

[rampar]

Not sure why you continue to use capital letters for every word, surely it takes longer and is incorrect.

Anyway not a biggie,
I just hate feeling like William Shatner ever time I come across one of your posts.

it was an auto setting in android. fixed

to keep on topic, there was an article about Carlton needing a ruthless edge in TheAge last week

 

[Just Kreuzing]

The thing standing between us and success is that we aren't anything more than mediocre as a team and a club.

Our players aren't anything special. There's nothing on our list that you can't find at most other clubs in terms of talent and skill.

Our recruiting has been ok but not brilliant. Our player development is weak and ineffectual.

Surely you are not suggesting we over rate our list....

Sad but I tend to agree with what you have said Gandaal, just maybe we are not that great just yet....

 

[Just Kreuzing]

it was an auto setting in android. fixed

to keep on topic, there was an article about Carlton needing a ruthless edge in TheAge last week

Great now are you able to fix Erko's problem of "coming across your posts all the time".....

 

[gbatman]

Over rated list and a team with holes in extremely important areas.

Lacking onball specialists and clearance specialists. The single most important area of the field is the onball group and we are no good in this area. This is the big story. This is why our defense and tall forwards look ordinary and why we haven't taken the world by storm.

Lacking quality small/medium defenders. Our smaller defenders aren't too bad but our bottom couple of small/medium backmen aren't good enough and even our better small/medium defenders aren't great.

Iffy tall forwards. We haven't seen much of them and they are struggling with our poor midfield but our talls aren't great. The potential is there however and I feel with a dominating midfield in front of them they could be good enough.

 

[Silvagnis]

The thing standing between us and success is that we aren't anything more than mediocre as a team and a club.



Our players aren't anything special. There's nothing on our list that you can't find at most other clubs in terms of talent and skill.



Our recruiting has been ok but not brilliant. Our player development is weak and ineffectual.

You could make this sweeping generalisation about every club bar GWS and GC.

These threads always turn into pointless club bashing and Its "almost" surprising that there is one after a single loss.

Absolutely no need to give Mick more than one round before you judge his work at Carlton.

Lacking onball specialists and clearance specialists. The single most important area of the field is the onball group and we are no good in this area. This is the big story. This is why our defense and tall forwards look ordinary and why we haven't taken the world by storm..

You couldn't be more wrong. The midfield isn't our weakness. We annihilated Collingwood's onball unit last year and Fremantle's near full strength midfield unit minus Judd. The thing they need to address is their commitment and workrate to play four quarters after we let Adelaide, Richmond and Brisbane jump us. Premature to judge the midfield with the players having just four months under Mick. The second halves have been better which is to be expected under a new coach.

 

[BM123]

We have also beaten these "huge" midfielders quite easily before in the past and I would with agree with RK's about our midfield needing to be committed for four quarters since even smallers midfielders like WC's have given us more trouble.

 

[le dominateur]

Intensity at the ball & opponent with the ball was missing for most of the night. Murphy, Carrazzo etc looked liked witches hats at the centre bounces, very dissapointed as we did nothing to change this. Hard to blame the defence & forwards when the midfield besides Gibbs & Judd got smashed.

As far as tackling goes the fact that a 3rd of our starting 22 have had major shoulder surgery could be a possible explanation for weak ineffectual tackles.

 

[Erko Blue]

it was an auto setting in android. fixed

to keep on topic, there was an article about Carlton needing a ruthless edge in TheAge last week

All good, thanks, now I don't feel like William Shatner, just a knob.
Sits well with me though.

Yeah, read the article.
Hard to argue with our lack of mongrel.

 

[mediumsizered]

Not only do we not possess this general menace out on the field, we rarely, if ever "fly the flag" for our own when being intimidated by the other team. In the last 2 weeks our new captain has gone down after being hit by someone from the other team and on both occations not a single Blue went to his aid or remonstrated with the offending player.

You are right in saying no-one flew the flag when Murphy was hit in the NAB Cup GF, but after the incident involving Murphy on Thursday night, Walker came in & remonstrated with the Richmond player concerned.

 

[Poseidon]

Our midfielders need to look no further than their mates in Judd and Robbo for how to play the game. If we had 5 or 6 of those types we'd be unstoppable.

 

[berisha]

You are right in saying no-one flew the flag when Murphy was hit in the NAB Cup GF, but after the incident involving Murphy on Thursday night, Walker came in & remonstrated with the Richmond player concerned.

This is one big positive about Walker. But the OP is right, there was one instance on Thursday that annoyed me, Lucas and Vickery were having a tussle, Bootsma just casually jogs past, now I know he is a twig, but that's not the point.