Prediction The rebuild could be long.. years if not a decade

[Us against the rest]

Tredrea on radio last night that the Club was well aware that the current situation (the piss poor results) is very much an issue and that they're far from turning a blind eye to it all.

I don't think you'll get them saying anything more than that. The next time you'll hear from Richo will either be after the next win, or after Ken leaves.

Our CEO would have to be the weakest in history, at least the Norwood flog would put himself front and center, send emails trying to explain things to members, he also acknowledged that the supporters were important to the club.

It's interesting when the media want clarification on certain issues they ignore Richardson and go to the mouth piece Koch.

 

[tribey]

So how do you explain our bottom 6 players being fringe players at best and having little coverage outside the 22.

Bottom 6 this year, or previously?

Most premiership sides, let alone contenders, can look relatively thin at the bottom end in isolation.

Look no further than the great Hawks dynasty of 2013-2015, which made premiership players out of the likes of Taylor Duryea, Matt Spangher, Will Langford, Ryan Schoenmakers, Matt Suckling, Jonathan Simpkin and Max Bailey.

Some of those guys — Langford in particular — were even able to jump up and play some acutely excellent footy at the pointy end, as subordinate parts to star teammates within a reliable system that was able to reliably and routinely extract the best out of them when it mattered.

We’ve never had the ‘reliable system’ part, except for maybe September 2014 when our run and gun and clear fitness advantage gave the competition kittens.

Outside this forum, Ive spoken to a lot of people both very passionate Port supporters (ones that go to every game) and non Crows opposition supporters. Collingwood, Carlton and Sydney and none of them including myself share the sentiments of this board on Hinkley

Yeah, there’s always been an ignorant groupthink amongst opposition fans, and even some of our own, that Port is a p¡ssminnow barely worth its place in the comp.

And thus any year where we’re not scratching around the bottom with the North Melbournes, Fremantles and situational binchickens of the comp must be some sort of minor miracle or titanic feat of coaching.

Our monotonous finals and other big game disasters feed into this belief that we’re constantly playing above ourselves, with related post-mortems on Hinkley deemed ‘unfair’ to the point of ‘delusional’.

The prime example is the 2021 Prelim.

We went into that one as raging favourites spearheaded by 9 past/present/future All-Australians and 2 more that made the AA40, including that year’s Brownlow Medallist with a record number of votes.

At home, having enjoyed the week off, against a battered opponent that was being ferried around the country under strict COVID protocols and wasn’t even allowed to train on Adelaide Oval in the lead up to the game.

And we got absolutely smashed.

But instead of question marks on Hinkley, his tactics and preparation, everyone just goes about their day satisfied in their confirmation bias that ‘Port has never had the list’.

Even though the Western Bulldogs haven’t won a game at Adelaide Oval as free men in five attempts since, what were Port fans thinking? They were up against the Bont™ and the Astronaught™! It’s not the SANFL anymore, flags are hard to win!

Rinse-repeat year-in year-out as seasonal outcomes remain eerily similar.

 

[JHF1870]

Bottom 6 this year, or previously?

Most premiership sides, let alone contenders, can look relatively thin at the bottom end in isolation.

Look no further than the great Hawks dynasty of 2013-2015, which made premiership players out of the likes of Taylor Duryea, Matt Spangher, Will Langford, Ryan Schoenmakers, Matt Suckling, Jonathan Simpkin and Max Bailey.

Some of those guys — Langford in particular — were even able to jump up and play some acutely excellent footy at the pointy end, as subordinate parts to star teammates within a reliable system that was able to reliably and routinely extract the best out of them when it mattered.

We’ve never had the ‘reliable system’ part, except for maybe September 2014 when our run and gun and clear fitness advantage gave the competition kittens.



Yeah, there’s always been an ignorant groupthink amongst opposition fans, and even some of our own, that Port is a p¡ssminnow barely worth its place in the comp.

And thus any year where we’re not scratching around the bottom with the North Melbournes, Fremantles and situational binchickens of the comp must be some sort of minor miracle or titanic feat of coaching.

Our monotonous finals and other big game disasters feed into this belief that we’re constantly playing above ourselves, with related post-mortems on Hinkley deemed ‘unfair’ to the point of ‘delusional’.

The prime example is the 2021 Prelim.

We went into that one as raging favourites spearheaded by 9 past/present/future All-Australians and 2 more that made the AA40, including that year’s Brownlow Medallist with a record number of votes.

At home, having enjoyed the week off, against a battered opponent that was being ferried around the country under strict COVID protocols and wasn’t even allowed to train on Adelaide Oval in the lead up to the game.

And we got absolutely smashed.

But instead of question marks on Hinkley, his tactics and preparation, everyone just goes about their day satisfied in their confirmation bias that ‘Port has never had the list’.

Even though the Western Bulldogs haven’t won a game at Adelaide Oval as free men in five attempts since, what were Port fans thinking? They were up against the Bont™ and the Astronaught™! It’s not the SANFL anymore, flags are hard to win!

Rinse-repeat year-in year-out as seasonal outcomes remain eerily similar.

Our current list is inadequate.

Were you happy with our players performance in those games? or do we just blame the coaches?

 

[tribey]

Our current list is inadequate.

It’s looking like it, yeah.

But it’d be nice to see how it goes under the sort of long overdue cultural overhaul where a relentless desire to win is the chief pre-requisite to being a Port Adelaide player (think peak-Warren Tredrea), than the ‘good person/footy’s not the be-all/we love daddy’ cuddle culture that currently festers down there.

Were you happy with our players performance in those games? or do we just blame the coaches?

The players grossly underperform in big games and finals. Again and again.

Is that preparation? Is that nervousness (‘choke’)? Is that overconfidence? Is that complacency?

Who’s the common denominator paid handsomely to extract peak performance out of them when it matters most?

I tell you what it isn’t, and that’s an alleged lack of talent against lower-ranked opponents or being ‘found out’.

But it’d be a helluva coincidence if it is, don’t ya think?

 

[TeeKray]

Our current list isn't good enough. Unless you're Geelong, it's impossible to remain in contention forever.

And this is exactly the reason you simply must capitalise when you do have the list to contend. No matter what the Whateleys of the world say, we had a good enough list to contend - witness finishing top 3 in 4/5 seasons and qualifying for back to back home prelims, during the COVID years where neutral grand finals were up for grabs no less. The fact that we not only failed to win a premiership but failed to so much as open up an opportunity by making a grand final is the reason this administration stands condemned as total failures.

Look for example at a couple of our fellow bottom 4 teams. West Coast and Richmond are no good and in the process of rebuilding. But they're rebuilding from premierships. Any reasonable fan can accept that. We are now rebuilding from missed opportunities - missed opportunities that become that much more galling when you're back down the other side of the mountain not knowing if or when you'll be back contending again.

Everyone involved in key roles over the last decade can piss off and give someone else a go.

 

[Willsy10]

This thread is just over hysterical/dramatic rubbish and basically giving Hinkley an excuse for his failings by blaming the list.

The place is just stale as **** needing fresh ideas and some new people involved.

The list is capable of being turned around pretty quickly.

And looking ahead we’ve got some decent prospects such as Cochrane who hopefully we can get access to and father sons like Salopek and Rodan.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Our current list is inadequate.

Were you happy with our players performance in those games? or do we just blame the coaches?

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2017 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2020-2021 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2024 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

Funny thing is that our 2024 finals team featured less than half of the players who appeared in our 2020-2021 finals teams, and only 4 players who appeared in the 2017 finals team.

Do you think we've delivered Ken Hinkley two almost entirely separate lists of players, 40 footballers in total, who all just happen to share this gene of being high quality H&A performers but underperforming in finals? Or do you think that the common denominator in charge of those two teams might have something to do with it?

 

[#Port Patriot#]

The trouble Port and other clubs have but specifically Port, is that whilst they've managed to continuously keep the list going without rebuilding and maintaining top 8 consecutively so in finals and contention.. Port can't get the extra players they do actually need and that is being able to get the free agents or, players of that value for key positions via trade because they primarily all goto Vic clubs or more specifically the big clubs. So Port being able to keep the list going with players in the national draft plus medium to fringe players added via trade and still being in contention is actually good.. Guaranteed that if Port was a "vic" club with this list and even Coach Kenny, they'd be able to grab players of high demand through free agency or trade and easier.. Pies, Cats, even the others all have the luxury of being those clubs. Another reason why Tigers and North (even though north have had way too much help and assistance not deserved) will build faster and better than West Coast Eagles. Even GWS... WA and SA need to have better academies and plans for players in their states otherwise Vic clubs will continue to rort it. But still, Port have still done well considering.. Crows took forever to be back where they are and have spent an enormous amount of money and more to get to this stage compared to Port.

 

[JHF1870]

Our current list isn't good enough. Unless you're Geelong, it's impossible to remain in contention forever.

And this is exactly the reason you simply must capitalise when you do have the list to contend. No matter what the Whateleys of the world say, we had a good enough list to contend - witness finishing top 3 in 4/5 seasons and qualifying for back to back home prelims, during the COVID years where neutral grand finals were up for grabs no less. The fact that we not only failed to win a premiership but failed to so much as open up an opportunity by making a grand final is the reason this administration stands condemned as total failures.

Look for example at a couple of our fellow bottom 4 teams. West Coast and Richmond are no good and in the process of rebuilding. But they're rebuilding from premierships. Any reasonable fan can accept that. We are now rebuilding from missed opportunities - missed opportunities that become that much more galling when you're back down the other side of the mountain not knowing if or when you'll be back contending again.

Everyone involved in key roles over the last decade can piss off and give someone else a go.

Solid take. I agree. I don't mean that in a personal or harsh way but that's the reality and nature of the business. I don't harbour hate for Kenny, but I did think we did need to make the change at the beginning of the season as the transition will always hurt you (See Collingwood). I'd like to move on the recruiters and a few of the other coaches and get some new guys in. Not sure what the talent pool looks like but we could do better.

We should have won a premiership in those years. Duursma cost us a premiership game tbf.

Would you be as harsh on the Bulldogs in that period between 2006 and 2011 where they were successful enough in finals without going all the way. They missed their window, reset, got Bont, Macrae and Stringer then won a premiership in '16 albeit very ****ing audaciously tbo.

 

[JHF1870]

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2017 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2020-2021 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2024 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

Funny thing is that our 2024 finals team featured less than half of the players who appeared in our 2020-2021 finals teams, and only 4 players who appeared in the 2017 finals team.

Do you think we've delivered Ken Hinkley two almost entirely separate lists of players, 40 footballers in total, who all just happen to share this gene of being high quality H&A performers but underperforming in finals? Or do you think that the common denominator in charge of those two teams might have something to do with it?

As I said before, I would have passed on Ken earlier for a better transition irrespective of where we were on the ladder. There were issues with that being Carr was less experienced than he is now, and who were we realistically going to get at the time?

At the end of the day he's moving on at the end of the year and we get to see what changes come about. I've said it before we will go backwards before we go forwards and people won't be able to blame Ken over the next few seasons.

 

[240volt]

If the list was or wasn’t good enough in the past can be debated forever.
We now stand at the cross roads as a club.
Some very important decisions will be made over the next 5 years.
Those outcomes will be imperative to the future success of the club.

 

[tribey]

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2017 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2020-2021 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

I'm not happy with the performance of our players in the 2024 finals series, losing at home in a game we were clear favourites against a team we beat in the H&A season.

Funny thing is that our 2024 finals team featured less than half of the players who appeared in our 2020-2021 finals teams, and only 4 players who appeared in the 2017 finals team.

Do you think we've delivered Ken Hinkley two almost entirely separate lists of players, 40 footballers in total, who all just happen to share this gene of being high quality H&A performers but underperforming in finals? Or do you think that the common denominator in charge of those two teams might have something to do with it?

Spare a thought for the poor bastards in the alternate universe where we actually lost the 2004 Prelim, trying to convince people that the team that won three consecutive minor premierships and more games than any other club from 1997-2007 really did have the talent to win at least one flag across that span.

“Come on now, do you really think Peter Burgoyne/Josh Carr/Roger James/Kane Cornes stacked up against Voss/Black/Akermanis/Lappin, Harvey/Hayes/Goddard/Dal Santo, and Judd/Cousins/Kerr/Cox? Choco performed miracles with Lil’ Port Power…”, etc.

We got that side of the coin with Hinkley.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Our CEO would have to be the weakest in history, at least the Norwood flog would put himself front and center, send emails trying to explain things to members, he also acknowledged that the supporters were important to the club.

It's interesting when the media want clarification on certain issues they ignore Richardson and go to the mouth piece Koch.

Also the only one that had any integrity and walked in the wake of the co-captains disaster.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Solid take. I agree. I don't mean that in a personal or harsh way but that's the reality and nature of the business. I don't harbour hate for Kenny, but I did think we did need to make the change at the beginning of the season as the transition will always hurt you (See Collingwood). I'd like to move on the recruiters and a few of the other coaches and get some new guys in. Not sure what the talent pool looks like but we could do better.

We should have won a premiership in those years. Duursma cost us a premiership game tbf.

Would you be as harsh on the Bulldogs in that period between 2006 and 2011 where they were successful enough in finals without going all the way. They missed their window, reset, got Bont, Macrae and Stringer then won a premiership in '16 albeit very ****ing audaciously tbo.

No, because their administration saw the writing on the wall, that Rocket wasn't going to bring them to the promised land so moved him on, first trying McCartney then Bevo. They weren't willing to settle for mediocrity and stability and got rewarded as a result. That's what a good administration does to ensure they capitalise in their windows.

If we'd made the same tough call in 2017 - 2019 as we should have with Hinkley, and had tried our own McCartney/Bevo, who knows what might have happened, especially in 2020 or 2021 when our list was capable.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Also the idea that we haven't had a list capable of making a grand final in his tenure when TWELVE out of the other 17 clubs have, is absolutely laughable when you consider our comparative winrate.

The only clubs who haven't in that period are St Kilda, who were coming off 2 GFs in the 3 years prior, Gold Coast who have had massive cultural problems, Essendon, who had a drugs scandal, and Carlton and Norf who are really the only other clubs who have failed without an excuse, and are the same as us in peaking with a prelim.

If the argument is that our list has been on par with the Blues and Norf over the last 13 years then just lol

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I am very much against the current.

I think we have a good list.
Most of the players who are the cream of the crop are young.

We've played two finals in four of the last five years.
When we didn't make finals, our midfield was transitioning.

So the players have enough to make it to finals.
The question is why did we lose those finals.
For me, the answer is poor coaching. A bad gameplan and poor matchups.
We've lost finals before setting foot out on the park.

I need to see a decent coach with our list before I'm calling for a rebuild.

I think the poor form of the team this year is based of coaching. The coaches heart is not in it and it has eventually rotted the team.

I'd love to go over the list which is one of my favourite things to do but it is better to wait and see how the year unfolds because a player or two may surprise with good or bad play.

 

[240volt]

Also the idea that we haven't had a list capable of making a grand final in his tenure when TWELVE out of the other 17 clubs have, is absolutely laughable when you consider our comparative winrate.

The only clubs who haven't in that period are St Kilda, who were coming off 2 GFs in the 3 years prior, Gold Coast who have had massive cultural problems, Essendon, who had a drugs scandal, and Carlton and Norf who are really the only other clubs who have failed without an excuse, and are the same as us in peaking with a prelim.

If the argument is that our list has been on par with the Blues and Norf over the last 13 years then just lol

Home and away we have been very good.
When the tempo lifts in finals we haven’t been able to go with sides that know how to go up a gear.
Why? Well that’s the big question but whatever you believe it is we haven’t even been able to make a GF.
If you can’t make a grand final it’s laughable to believe you’re good enough to win one.
I once believed we could then again I once believed in Santa Claus.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Home and away we have been very good.
When the tempo lifts in finals we haven’t been able to go with sides that know how to go up a gear.
Why? Well that’s the big question but whatever you believe it is we haven’t even been able to make a GF.
If you can’t make a grand final it’s laughable to believe you’re good enough to win one.
I once believed we could then again I once believed in Santa Claus.

I don't disagree with this at all. I honestly believe this club could have the All Australian team and not win a flag with Hinkley coaching.

 

[Ilias M]

I have really have to question the club program across the board players just are not developing like many other teams' youngsters, I would like to know how come so many of our players look like they failed to put on 10kg over a number of years, what strength and conditioning programs at PAFC

Look at Geelong for instance most of their players are built big and can take on the physicality
“I was sort of like full-forward and then chopped in as a second ruck. I came in at 87kg, s
o I was pretty like framed,” Neale said.

“I’m about 107 now, so yeah, it’s about 20kg (gain), so it’s been a journey, but again it’s only hopefully only the start.”

- Shannon Neale (Geelong Cats)


13 years under Hinkley and nothing changed, and the board spent more time calling out critics as "white noise"

 

[drcollossimo]

I have really have to question the club program across the board players just are not developing like many other teams' youngsters, I would like to know how come so many of our players look like they failed to put on 10kg over a number of years, what strength and conditioning programs at PAFC

Look at Geelong for instance most of their players are built big and can take on the physicality
“I was sort of like full-forward and then chopped in as a second ruck. I came in at 87kg, s
o I was pretty like framed,” Neale said.

“I’m about 107 now, so yeah, it’s about 20kg (gain), so it’s been a journey, but again it’s only hopefully only the start.”

- Shannon Neale (Geelong Cats)
View attachment 2325629

13 years under Hinkley and nothing changed, and the board spent more time calling out critics as "white noise"

Come on that’s not fair David called us Bastards not white noise …

 

[pstew2dstew]

I dont often agree with the club lately, but this is a strategy I can get behind.

There's always avenues to acquire a JHF or Willie or zerk etc. Geelong is the example.

The way the afl is set up now.
The emphasis on high draft picks is way overplayed imo.

The failure we have had in intiating this strategy is playing way too nice and being too accommodating. The strategy is sound to me but our execution in this area is so poor.

 

[Scholz Supremacy]

Imagine when the going gets really tough over the next few years and all the former rusted on die hards that were there at AAMI Stadium from 2008-2012 aren’t there this time because the current regime were happy to lose them in favour of more happyclappers.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I split our list into 4 categories based on what players have shown over the last couple of seasons and also taking unto account contracts.

We don't have a bottom 4 list. We also don't have a top 4 list like Collingwood, Brisbane, Geelong and Gold Coast have.

We are stuck in the middle and if we aren't mentally tuned it, its the lower end of the middle. Like nearly all clubs, we have a depth issue when we get more than 5 or 6 injuries. I expected us to win 10-15 games this year, and it was based on how many injuries we had - ie having a reasonable run. not no injuries. We could still get to 10.

I'd expect about 26 to 28 of the 32 players in my first 3 columns to still be on our list for 2026 and 2027. That assumes we keep Butters and Bergman and they take up their 2 years + X year options deal they have been offered, and the 2 year component for now at least.

1 or 2 players in the right hand column might survive and be on the 2026 and 2027 but we have to b e ruthless at the end of this year. We make the decision on Boak not the other way round.

We have to get in some decent players but not trade away our decent picks for average players. We have to get some future stars in thru the draft, not just 100% of picks are good ordinary footballers.

Not having Lukosius for more than 1 game and 2 minutes has hurt our win - loss record and is going to hurt on draft night when the GC are going to get a top 5 or top 10 pick from us for that trade.

 

[gbear]

Tredrea on radio last night that the Club was well aware that the current situation (the piss poor results) is very much an issue and that they're far from turning a blind eye to it all.

I don't think you'll get them saying anything more than that. The next time you'll hear from Richo will either be after the next win, or after Ken leaves.

Hence why Richardson is a total pussy of a CEO, who should have a) never been appointed in the first place and b) needs to go with Hinkley.

 

[PowerBaz]

This thread is just over hysterical/dramatic rubbish and basically giving Hinkley an excuse for his failings by blaming the list.

The place is just stale as **** needing fresh ideas and some new people involved.

The list is capable of being turned around pretty quickly.

And looking ahead we’ve got some decent prospects such as Cochrane who hopefully we can get access to and father sons like Salopek and Rodan.

What about a Rider of ‘Rohan’ - solid performers.