Opinion The Ruck

[S120]

Think he's suited more as a forward and give the occasional chop out in he ruck

We have Franklin, Tippett and Reid around for multiple years though. Not sure how much opportunity he is going to get playing mainly as a forward and a little in the ruck. He's taller than Mumford and is capable of putting more weight on given he's only 20 in August. He's capable of being our first choice guy.

I don't think it's silly to go and get another ruck at some point over the next 24 months but I certainly wouldn't be paying silly money to get a big name. We've shown we can develop lesser names into very good players in the ruck, we can do it again.

 

[Sydswans0512]

We have Franklin, Tippett and Reid around for multiple years though. Not sure how much opportunity he is going to get playing mainly as a forward and a little in the ruck. He's taller than Mumford and is capable of putting more weight on given he's only 20 in August. He's capable of being our first choice guy.

I don't think it's silly to go and get another ruck at some point over the next 24 months but I certainly wouldn't be paying silly money to get a big name. We've shown we can develop lesser names into very good players in the ruck, we can do it again.

I do agree about finding a lesser name but I've looked around the other lists and there isn't too much around, Derickx is woeful! 600k isn't that much for a top line ruckman and we probably can afford to offload someone with all the mids we have.

 

[swansfan51]

There are always some around. But trading is definitely the best option, lest we end up using a first round pick on Llane Spaanderman or another first round pick on Cameron Wood.

 

[Sydswans0512]

There are always some around. But trading is definitely the best option, lest we end up using a first round pick on Llane Spaanderman or another first round pick on Cameron Wood.

I've been looking over the drafts and I reckon you could put Daniel Gorringe in with those, pick 10 and he's shown nothing

 

[robbieando]

I do agree about finding a lesser name but I've looked around the other lists and there isn't too much around, Derickx is woeful! 600k isn't that much for a top line ruckman and we probably can afford to offload someone with all the mids we have.

Derickx has performed well despite all the crap thrown his way, but is a stop gap to allow the younger players on our list to get ready to compete for a spot next year and we can figure out who is realistically out there. Not the Goldstein's of this world. Your idea basically is to rob Peter to pay Paul when we can stand pat, keep who we want to keep, dislist/trade we want and draft/trade for a ruck man who longterm will be a better fit than Derickx next year and help fill Pyke's spot in future years.

 

[Sydswans0512]

Derickx has performed well despite all the crap thrown his way, but is a stop gap to allow the younger players on our list to get ready to compete for a spot next year and we can figure out who is realistically out there. Not the Goldstein's of this world. Your idea basically is to rob Peter to pay Paul when we can stand pat, keep who we want to keep, dislist/trade we want and draft/trade for a ruck man who longterm will be a better fit than Derickx next year and help fill Pyke's spot in future years.

We have plenty of young mids and even somebody like a Sam Reid could be traded to free up the coin for him.
I would be in favor of offering somebody's second ruckman a go for us because Derickx is hopeless

 

[S120]

We have plenty of young mids and even somebody like a Sam Reid could be traded to free up the coin for him.
I would be in favor of offering somebody's second ruckman a go for us because Derickx is hopeless

Why do you want this guy so much? It's fun to think up possible trades but I just don't see why giving up Luke Parker or Sam Reid for Todd Goldstein is something you want so much when the club has shown how good we are at developing poor ruckmen into good ruckmen. And it'd happen at about 1/3 the price of bringing in Goldstein (a huge plus considering how much money we have devoted to Franklin and Tippett at the moment).

 

[Sydswans0512]

Why do you want this guy so much? It's fun to think up possible trades but I just don't see why giving up Luke Parker or Sam Reid for Todd Goldstein is something you want so much when the club has shown how good we are at developing poor ruckmen into good ruckmen. And it'd happen at about 1/3 the price of bringing in Goldstein (a huge plus considering how much money we have devoted to Franklin and Tippett at the moment).

No point having decent mids if you've got a shit ruckman, Pyke will be 31 next year I'd be looking around

 

[S120]

No point having decent mids if you've got a shit ruckman, Pyke will be 31 next year I'd be looking around

Since when does an outstanding ruckman actually guarantee first service to his midfield? That's what the debate around Sandilands being overrated is all about. Even at his size, he can't guarantee his midfield have an advantage over another very good midfield. Against non-finals side, sure, he will give the midfield a great advantage. But in finals, not necessarily by any means. He can play well, like he did in the GF, but that doesn't mean his midfield will dominate the other.

I'd much, much, much rather have an excellent midfield with an average ruckman than vice versa. Dropping, say, Luke Parker or Tom Mitchell in order to get a Goldstein would be depleting our midfield at a time when the best sides have deep, deep midfields.

 

[Sydswans0512]

Since when does an outstanding ruckman actually guarantee first service to his midfield? That's what the debate around Sandilands being overrated is all about. Even at his size, he can't guarantee his midfield have an advantage over another very good midfield. Against non-finals side, sure, he will give the midfield a great advantage. But in finals, not necessarily by any means. He can play well, like he did in the GF, but that doesn't mean his midfield will dominate the other.

I'd much, much, much rather have an excellent midfield with an average ruckman than vice versa. Dropping, say, Luke Parker or Tom Mitchell in order to get a Goldstein would be depleting our midfield at a time when the best sides have deep, deep midfields.

We look set to pick up another three young gun midfielders over the next two years
I guess it depends on how we rate Perris, Lloyd, Mills, Dunkley, Hiscox and Heeney

 

[The King!]

how many outstanding ruckman are there in the comp.
Say in the top 20 players overall, top 50 even.

Cox was a superstar at his peak, Sandilands to me is overrated and injury prone, then who is there? Ruckman arent necessarily overrated, but there arent actually many who are elite players.

I think Mumford/Pyke gave us one of the better ruck combos in the comp, but it did have an expiry date given fitness and age, but we have gone from near the top to down the bottom for ruck set ups.

I would like to see us move to a better stop gap next year whilst developing youth as i question Pykeys ability to carry the number one role long term and Derrickx who lifted in the second half last week and tries hard is no real solution.

I also am not a fan of rucking Tippett at all.

 

[RW]

No point having decent mids if you've got a shit ruckman, Pyke will be 31 next year I'd be looking around

Of course we should be looking around for ways to improve our list, they are just saying that Goldstein is likely to cost us too much relative to our needs.

 

[Number37]

I also am not a fan of rucking Tippett at all.

Playing Tippett as permanent FF is crazy when the guy is a better than average ruck. He can rest at FF.
IMO if he takes contested marks when the ball comes out of D50 it opens up the game for our mids and speedsters.
If that happens, who has the cattle to stop Buddy and Goodes and cover Jets and Rohan at the same time?

 

[Punts]

Tippett should and will 2nd ruck when fit , plus it means you get another runner in the team if he rucks and you become far for flexible. Would rather not see a set up like last year with Pyke , Tippett , Mumford in the same side , plus we have Reid and Buddy also now to try and fit in.

 

[alanlau34]

I do agree about finding a lesser name but I've looked around the other lists and there isn't too much around, Derickx is woeful! 600k isn't that much for a top line ruckman and we probably can afford to offload someone with all the mids we have.

We have plenty of young mids and even somebody like a Sam Reid could be traded to free up the coin for him.
I would be in favor of offering somebody's second ruckman a go for us because Derickx is hopeless

OMG did Derickx sleep with your gf/wife/mother/sister??? (not implying they're all the same person...)

Look, Derickx is still relatively young in terms of development, and he came from Richmond which isn't exactly renowned for their ruck development. He has steadily improved each game he plays with us, so projecting that out, by finals time he will be the leagues premier ruckman.

It's not an ideal situation to be in, but if we wanted a tap ruckman that did nothing around the ground, then we could pay overs for Goldstein, or we could pay peanuts and stick with D-Rex.

 

[replicant]

This discussion is forgetting one Pat Mitchell, our next first ruck.

He's so hard he's already taken out a marquee player....

... pity it was ours, but still... points for effort!

 

[The King!]

Playing Tippett as permanent FF is crazy when the guy is a better than average ruck. He can rest at FF.
IMO if he takes contested marks when the ball comes out of D50 it opens up the game for our mids and speedsters.
If that happens, who has the cattle to stop Buddy and Goodes and cover Jets and Rohan at the same time?

In the current structure i agree he is second ruck and i agree he can ruck

but i have concerns over the affect on his durability if he rucks thats all

 

[baja]

Playing Tippett as permanent FF is crazy when the guy is a better than average ruck.

Is he really?

Since when does an outstanding ruckman actually guarantee first service to his midfield? .

Its more than that, we have proved one of the best and most ideal situations were a combo of Mummy and Pyke.

What was so valuable about Mumford was the fact he was basically and extra gut running midfielder that could shoulder the bulk of the work, do you or other posters think its an ideal role for Tippett or Pyke? I think that's were Nankervis or Naismith will get their chance is playing that role, from limited reports that's eventually Naismith. However if Nankervis gets a chance first it might take a while for him to get a gig too.

You don't throw a firing key forward into the ruck that's just silly it doesn't make sense on so many levels.

 

[Sydswans0512]

OMG did Derickx sleep with your gf/wife/mother/sister??? (not implying they're all the same person...)

Look, Derickx is still relatively young in terms of development, and he came from Richmond which isn't exactly renowned for their ruck development. He has steadily improved each game he plays with us, so projecting that out, by finals time he will be the leagues premier ruckman.

It's not an ideal situation to be in, but if we wanted a tap ruckman that did nothing around the ground, then we could pay overs for Goldstein, or we could pay peanuts and stick with D-Rex.

Derrickx Is like another Paul chambers

 

[Bonz]

Derrickx Is like another Paul chambers

Not really, Unlike Chambers he is actually passionate about football and at least makes an attempt on the field.

 

[Sydswans0512]

Not really, Unlike Chambers he is actually passionate about football and at least makes an attempt on the field.

OK he's in between Chambers and Doyle

 

[Bonz]

OK he's in between Chambers and Doyle

I might be a bit of a rarity but I actually rated Doyle, had heaps of potential... just a shame he couldn't get on the park.

 

[Sydswans0512]

I might be a bit of a rarity but I actually rated Doyle, had heaps of potential... just a shame he couldn't get on the park.

I must admin so did I, he Doyle actually go forward a bit

 

[The King!]

I might be a bit of a rarity but I actually rated Doyle, had heaps of potential... just a shame he couldn't get on the park.

He was our best ruckman in the 06 grand final by a mile

 

[Bonz]

He was our best ruckman in the 06 grand final by a mile

Didn't exactly have a heap of competition, you know with Jolly not turning up and all.