The Squib Strikes Back

[jimmy35]

I've got no problem with the AFL paying to bring some clubs up to a certain level in off field spending. It wont make too much difference to the bigger clubs anyway, they'll still spend more money to make their sides better.

It's the capping of spending for clubs that would concern me.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It's funny how we keep hearing from North about how much help they need/want, but we never hear from them about how they plan to generate their own revenue?

Let's say the AFL wipes their debt, then what?

How long before they get back into debt again?

 

[Markfs]

I get a little angry at people like the Squib because he doesnt realise how lucky he is to have his club in the AFL. There are load of Fitzroy supporters who lost their club and there are a load of Tasmanian dwellers who could easily support a Tasmanian AFL club but havent been given the chance. And that is the reason I made my comment about the Power getting dumped....sure I wouldnt want to see AFL clubs get dumped unless they have been given an opportunity to resurrect themselves...but if their continued existence depends on large clubs like Collingwood and Carlton giving money to them....well then I would prefer to see clubs like Port and North dumped and replaced by teams from Tasmania and Darwin - if it can support a long-term AFL team.

There is no doubt in my mind that allowing Port into the AFL has been a mistake. It has no appeal to most South Australians and will be a long-term anchor on the rest of the competition. North has always struggled for supporters. Unless it relocates, it will always be a drain. It is time for the Squid to confront reality and relocate the club to Tasmania because the club's creditors force him to do it in the next few years.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I get a little angry at people like the Squib because he doesnt realise how lucky he is to have his club in the AFL. There are load of Fitzroy supporters who lost their club and there are a load of Tasmanian dwellers who could easily support a Tasmanian AFL club but havent been given the chance. And that is the reason I made my comment about the Power getting dumped....sure I wouldnt want to see AFL clubs get dumped unless they have been given an opportunity to resurrect themselves...but if their continued existence depends on large clubs like Collingwood and Carlton giving money to them....well then I would prefer to see clubs like Port and North dumped and replaced by teams from Tasmania and Darwin - if it can support a long-term AFL team.

There is no doubt in my mind that allowing Port into the AFL has been a mistake. It has no appeal to most South Australians and will be a long-term anchor on the rest of the competition. North has always struggled for supporters. Unless it relocates, it will always be a drain. It is time for the Squid to confront reality and relocate the club to Tasmania because the club's creditors force him to do it in the next few years.

Why exactly are you calling Brayshaw a Squib (or Squid, as further in your post)? I am sure he knows he is lucky to have his team in the competition, and is just trying to find a way to ensure it continues.

And for what it is worth, I think Brayshaw would contemplate moving his club to Tasmania, although Hawthorn are now a complication in that. I do think he made a mistake in knocking back the AFL's offer several years ago of moving to GC, but I respect the fight that he has shown in trying to make NM work.

If you were a North supporter, Markfs, what would you want Brayshaw to do for your club? Do you honestly think that you could run the club better than Brayshaw? Your post suggests that you do.

 

[Slattery_20]

Brayshaw is probably doing exactly what Eddie would do in his place, agitating to better his side's fortunes. And vice versa.

 

[HFF]

Brayshaw is probably doing exactly what Eddie would do in his place, agitating to better his side's fortunes. And vice versa.

That's all well and good and we can all relate to and accept that but Ed has always been on the support and vocal for helping the clubs that need it but within reason. Nowhere in his comments did he say he was against it, he just wanted to be mindful of how we go about helping them. In fact, he has led the charge for just about every club in the competition when it comes to ensuring everyone is getting a fair deal i.e. salary caps etc.

Brayshaw wants it all handed to him on a platter judging his comments. His CEO (who they poached from us) also came out today doing the same thing.

 

[Jelly Bean]

That's all well and good and we can all relate to and accept that but Ed has always been on the support and vocal for helping the clubs that need it but within reason. Nowhere in his comments did he say he was against it, he just wanted to be mindful of how we go about helping them. In fact, he has led the charge for just about every club in the competition when it comes to ensuring everyone is getting a fair deal i.e. salary caps etc.

Brayshaw wants it all handed to him on a platter judging his comments. His CEO (who they poached from us) also came out today doing the same thing.

Couple of points here.

Firstly, arguing for equal salary caps contains self-interest (from the perspective of Collingwood FC).

Secondly, Arocca left because we didn't offer him our top job. It wasn't North's fault. And P.S We 'poached' Geoff Walsh from North, so let's not throw stones.

Thirdly, Brayshaw doesn't want it handed on a platter, he is right to ask for assistance in keeping his club alive, especially when his club is denied financially favourable fixturing (ie few friday / saturday night games, etc).

Sure, North needs a long-term sustainable plan (which will be difficult anyway given their low supporter base) but Brayshaw is doing the right thing.

 

[anshell]

Changing the fixture won't help North one little bit.The could have Friday night football every week and they still wouldn't make any more money.Their biggest problem is,and always will be,the fact that they don't have enough fans.

 

[HFF]

Couple of points here.

Firstly, arguing for equal salary caps contains self-interest (from the perspective of Collingwood FC).

Secondly, Arocca left because we didn't offer him our top job. It wasn't North's fault. And P.S We 'poached' Geoff Walsh from North, so let's not throw stones.

Thirdly, Brayshaw doesn't want it handed on a platter, he is right to ask for assistance in keeping his club alive, especially when his club is denied financially favourable fixturing (ie few friday / saturday night games, etc).

Sure, North needs a long-term sustainable plan (which will be difficult anyway given their low supporter base) but Brayshaw is doing the right thing.

Firstly, salary cap serves EVERYONE'S interests because it is a RULE. Having the same amount of $$$$ in the bank is not.

Secondly, they still poached him. They offered him a promotion and he took it. I'm not having a crack at them for that, that's good business. At least they didn't ask the AFL to provide them with a CEO.

Thirdly, of course he has a right to ask for assistance. Eddie and Kennett are not denying them assistance. Ed has made it clear that those in need deserve the help but it should be in the form of a model where they can take it away and expand or sustain it, not rely on a few breadcrumbs and go there holding their hats and trying to "equalise" it because of poor management. The only reason they are denied "financially favourable fixturing" is because of their inability to pull a crowd and contribute to the bottom line. As another poster on the main board said, the timeslot isn't the drawing card, it's who is playing in it.

 

[Slattery_20]

That's all well and good and we can all relate to and accept that but Ed has always been on the support and vocal for helping the clubs that need it but within reason. Nowhere in his comments did he say he was against it, he just wanted to be mindful of how we go about helping them. In fact, he has led the charge for just about every club in the competition when it comes to ensuring everyone is getting a fair deal i.e. salary caps etc.

There were a fair few exaggerations either way from either side to make a point. Something neither Eddie nor Jeff have baulked at in the past.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Firstly, salary cap serves EVERYONE'S interests because it is a RULE. Having the same amount of $$$$ in the bank is not.

Secondly, they still poached him. They offered him a promotion and he took it. I'm not having a crack at them for that, that's good business. At least they didn't ask the AFL to provide them with a CEO.

Thirdly, of course he has a right to ask for assistance. Eddie and Kennett are not denying them assistance. Ed has made it clear that those in need deserve the help but it should be in the form of a model where they can take it away and expand or sustain it, not rely on a few breadcrumbs and go there holding their hats and trying to "equalise" it because of poor management. The only reason they are denied "financially favourable fixturing" is because of their inability to pull a crowd and contribute to the bottom line. As another poster on the main board said, the timeslot isn't the drawing card, it's who is playing in it.

I know, I was making the same point. The fact that Ed was arguing for the salary cap wasn't about sticking up for the poorer clubs, it was about ensuring that there weren't clubs who could pay more than Collingwood.

The drawcard is the timeslot. You would get more people watching and attending a game on Sat night (and Friday night) rather than the same teams on Sunday at 4.40. If the Roos could say that they play more Friday night games (which would lead to more TV viewers) then they could generate more from their sponsors. It is as simple as that.

 

[Old Spice]

Give em the money i say.. What else is demetrio gonna do with a billion bucks? More donuts?
Theres enough cash there to look after all the teams and then some, they need to stop hoarding it and paying bonuses to the ceo for everyone elses hard work.

Yeah, I concur. The AFL do have some worthy projects and plans, but you've got to retain the heritage in my view. If we head down the path of voodoo economics in footy, we'll have teams fold, players jumping around all over the shop and football as a frippery lesiure industry.

Agreed!
North need to work, and work hard, on shifting their club as being the "poor old north" or "north are ok they are battlers" image.

I think I expressed myself badly. The problem is that they can't afford to jettison their shin-boner image and tradition when they have nothing to fill the void. I reckon North's history is very interesting, and they could almost plumb it more deeply. At the moment their pissing into the abyss.

I've got no problem with the AFL paying to bring some clubs up to a certain level in off field spending. It wont make too much difference to the bigger clubs anyway, they'll still spend more money to make their sides better.

It's the capping of spending for clubs that would concern me.

On football dept spending, I don't mind the top up, but a cap would be shit. My view is the AFL need to peg their assistance to a serious revamp of their marketing and recruitment depts. That or to ventures which will generate an ongoing revenue stream that can take them off the drop-feed.

Couple of points here.

Firstly, arguing for equal salary caps contains self-interest (from the perspective of Collingwood FC).

Secondly, Arocca left because we didn't offer him our top job. It wasn't North's fault. And P.S We 'poached' Geoff Walsh from North, so let's not throw stones.

Thirdly, Brayshaw doesn't want it handed on a platter, he is right to ask for assistance in keeping his club alive, especially when his club is denied financially favourable fixturing (ie few friday / saturday night games, etc).

Sure, North needs a long-term sustainable plan (which will be difficult anyway given their low supporter base) but Brayshaw is doing the right thing.

I think Brayshaw is definitely doing the right thing by his club in jockeying for a better position for the club, as is Ed.

Changing the fixture won't help North one little bit.The could have Friday night football every week and they still wouldn't make any more money.Their biggest problem is,and always will be,the fact that they don't have enough fans.

This is the real issue. Unless they can institute a viable business model which brings in big dollars, they will be in deep poo. No-one in their right mind will give North big games when they can't fill bums on seats. They obviously have serious issues in terms of Melbourne support.

 

[Axl the great]

I dont agree with this part of your statement....lets just say that the comp had 10 teams, the standard of those getting a game would be even higher, so is that the sollution?..cut down the amount of teams untill its only the superstars that are getting a game?.....and let me tell you something mate, i dont think anybody getting a game of AFL is an average player.

Agree 100%

There was a discussion on the dilution of talent with 18 teams a while back and i for one was adament this was crap and there is more than enough good players coming through and running around in state comps to fill the void.

Talent alone is only a partial reason why guys get on AFL lists and succeed in todays football, there is also hard work, dedication, and the ability to follow coaching orders and play a role in their team.

There are as many talent scouts now, if not more looking at players in the WAFL SANFL VFL and abroad than there is watching the TAC Cup, and i would suggest that there is a que of guys lining up to take the places of delisted and retired players easily as capable of doing the job, for example players A B C D E F are the bottom six in a teams 22 and play a role for that team, i beleive there are easily enough guys outside the AFL capable given the oportunity to do just as good a job as those six players.

We have even seen players come from state comps and step into an AFL teams top 5 or 10 players within one year, There are so many Duigan's Blair's Puopolo's Barlow's Mzungu's Pederson's Hibberd's etc that are just waiting for an opportunity.

Therefore i do not subscribe to this notion of "not enough good players" theory, i reckon the opposite apllies in the fact recruiters and scouts judge players much much harsher than ever before meaning more players capable of making it slip through the net.

 

[Pie eyed]

There were a fair few exaggerations either way from either side to make a point. Something neither Eddie nor Jeff have baulked at in the past.

The thing is, really, can you name another any other Presidents other than Eddie and Jeffrey who really have anything to say on important AFL issues?
Other than the occasional squeal about something which directly effects their club.

At least two question the AFL about their numerous brain fades.

 

[Slattery_20]

I don't necessarily buy that either are going above and beyond their duties to their clubs all that often, nor do I believe they should do so in the public arena.
I can't remember Eddie or jeff trying to change the Etihad deal for the smaller Melbourne clubs, or trying to re-work the SANFL funding for example. Big, blatantly unfair financial issues that have made it pretty hard for clubs to work for no good reason other than circumstance.
Both are, however, very accomplished politicians.
Call me cynical.

 

[Jelly Bean]

That is my point (from an earlier post). The only time you will hear Eddie stick up for 'struggler' clubs is when there is self (Collingwood) interest.

 

[Markfs]

That is my point (from an earlier post). The only time you will hear Eddie stick up for 'struggler' clubs is when there is self (Collingwood) interest.

He is the elected leader of the CFC. That's his job..

Brayshaw whines about giving them more Friday night fixturing and they will become more popular and more financially secure. How long does this process take? North was a top club for the second half of the 1990s. It got plenty of exposure during those seasons and in finals. "King" Carey was drooled over by Brucie and every other football journo. Is Friday night somehow magical that it will deliver more fans to North?

And remember, at a time when the lowly magpies were negotiating to secure a training centre close to the MCG, the Kangaroos were content to stay in their old training sheds at Arden St. At a time when most clubs were beginning to expand their membership, North had turned itself in a corporate entity with no members....only shareholders...

We are all prisoners of the decisions that we make about our lives. Some of us make bad decisions and shrug our shoulders and get on with it. Some people blame everyone else for their own bad decisions. You can guess which group that I think the Squid belongs to.


p.s. I think David Smorgen is an entirely different case to the Squib. He has been a fantastic President who has generally handled his club extremely well. I still remember how he managed Terry Wallace out of his club. It was a thing of sheer beauty. He got rid of a traitor and brought the club together at a critical time. He doesnt always make the right decisions - putting Peter Rohhde in as coach after the "Plough" was not the best - but he doesn't spend his days biting the hands that feed him.

 

[Jelly Bean]

He is the elected leader of the CFC. That's his job..

Brayshaw whines about giving them more Friday night fixturing and they will become more popular and more financially secure. How long does this process take? North was a top club for the second half of the 1990s. It got plenty of exposure during those seasons and in finals. "King" Carey was drooled over by Brucie and every other football journo. Is Friday night somehow magical that it will deliver more fans to North?

And remember, at a time when the lowly magpies were negotiating to secure a training centre close to the MCG, the Kangaroos were content to stay in their old training sheds at Arden St. At a time when most clubs were beginning to expand their membership, North had turned itself in a corporate entity with no members....only shareholders...

We are all prisoners of the decisions that we make about our lives. Some of us make bad decisions and shrug our shoulders and get on with it. Some people blame everyone else for their own bad decisions. You can guess which group that I think the Squid belongs to.


p.s. I think David Smorgen is an entirely different case to the Squib. He has been a fantastic President who has generally handled his club extremely well. I still remember how he managed Terry Wallace out of his club. It was a thing of sheer beauty. He got rid of a traitor and brought the club together at a critical time. He doesnt always make the right decisions - putting Peter Rhodes in as coach after the "Plough" was not the best - but he doesn't spend his days biting the hands that feed him.

You are missing my point. I know that is his job, and he does it well. The reason I say it is because an earlier poster said that Eddie sticks up for struggling clubs. I say he only does when there is self interest. I am not arguing against Eddie.

Markfs, again I ask you the same two questions. Why is James Brayshaw a 'squib', and do you think you could do a better job at running North Melbourne?

 

[Pie eyed]

St Kilda president Greg Westaway said

''[The AFL is] saying these clubs are battling and we're (Collingwood and Hawthorn) prepared to help them, but we don't just want to hand it out and see them waste it, we want to know what they're going to do with it so that they can invest in something that makes their footy club a better place and improves their future.
''That's what they're (Collingwood and Hawthorn) after and it's a very noble and sensible approach, and that's the way it should be.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ir-fixtures-20110810-1imvp.html#ixzz1Um0D0kWc
​

 

[daics_35]

He also cries about the fixture, well ffs Jimmy clubs like yours want to play us and request it what do you want us to do? Let you die? Sick and tired of North fans, they really have it in for us and I dont know why? They all have the same mindset and the only thing they yell out at the footy is "How much did Eddie pay the umpires today". Sick of that club and their fans, cant wait the day they fold.

 

[shawthing09]

It's not a matter of the league not being strong enough to support this number of teams.

It's much more an issue of the tainted drafts due to so much of the talent pool being sent to GC and GWS over the next few years making it hard for teams at the bottom to recover.

 

[Bay Pie]

I just don't understand NM supporters. Easy in hindsight, but they move to the Gold Coast and they are set for as long as they want.

My guess is they'll end up moving to Tassie. They go down there, all of a sudden they can become a powerhouse financially and then be able to have scouts around the country, state of the art facilities and development programs. They'll stil keep their 25,000+ members and pick up plenty Taswegains as members.

They'll play 11 games in Tassie, 5/6 outside Vic (AFL do a deal to keep more games in Melbourne) and 5/6 in Melbourne. They then have a shot at building a team for prolonged success. Hand outs wont do that.

At the moment NM will next year sell 3? home games a year to Tassie and play probably 6/7 games outside Victoria. So their Melbourne members see 12/13 games in Melbourne. Compared to 5/6 if they relocated.

If we were in their situation (obviously I don't live in Melbourne and don't get to many games), I'd rather watch my club from a position of secure financial security, challenging year after year without fear of extinction and see 6/7 less games per year, then what they've got coming over the next few years. They'd still see finals and that is what it's all about. The biggie is played in Melbourne.

The flow on effect to the remaining 8 clubs in Melbourne will be very good as less competition for the sponsor $$$.