The state of the game internationally

[jatz14]

Recently announced that 2 American kids will be in the world team for the U16 national championships. One of them is the son of a player from the US national Australian football team. He is an American who has grown up with Aussie rules, and his tryout video for the team



shows someone who looks much more natural with his skills than most Americans who learn later in life (note he is still only 14).

This must represent a key step in the growth of AFL overseas, a second generation who grows up with the game. But is Nolan a harbringer of things to come, or will kids following their parents into AFL in places like America remain a rarity.

Other key milestones would be the creation of a complete developement pathway, and general recognition in the local community of the existance of the sport locally.

This thread is to hopefully show where the key contries are at in their developement

 

[jatz14]

New Zealand

Huge effort by the AFL and Hawthorn in particular, with St Kilda also looking to get involved.

KiwiKick (Oz Kick equivalent), started March 2009 with 41 participants, 2010 had 8152, 2011 had 15210, projected for 2012, 24000. By the end 2011 had 309 accredited coaches.

I do not think Kiwikick will translate directly into these kids taking up and following aussie rules, but what it does do is bring Aussie rules to their attention, and gives them a basic understanding of the game (and hopefully their parents). I know lots of these will be expats, but a significant number will not be. This program is akin to a brand awareness campaign. Not selling them Aussie rules, just raising the profile to make it an easier sell later.

HANZ Cup for under 17s is a club based kids program that failed in 2011. NZAFL analysis says they are going on a 5% and 5% return. Target 2000 kids in schools, 5% will take it up in school (100), and 5% of those will take it up at club level (5). To get 25 players to turn up for a club on the weekend, they have to target 10000 school kids. They plan to reload for 2012 and go for much more schools to generate the numbers to get junior clubs up.

HAWKS Cup, for under 17s is a school based program which also did not succeed. To be revamped and tried again 2012, again with a better understanding of the numbers.

AFL 9s to launch 2012

Positives, 13 of the oceania team for the Australian U16s tournament are from NZ.

A NZ U16 team is to play annually in the Qld U16 regionals

A HP program is up

A VAFA U18 rep team is to visit and play the national team anually.

From what I can tell, the most concerted effort at junior level anywhere. A number of NZ kids on Hawks international draft list already. Possibly the first person to play AFL to have learnt the game elsewhere will be from NZ.

Keys to success, getting a viable schools comp up. This will lead to better success in a junior club comp.

When they are in a position to be able to take KIWI Kick kids and steer them into junior aussie rules comps, and then into the HP academy, Australian junior rep competitions and senior footy, it will be self sustaining.

 

[jatz14]

United States

The exact opposite of NZ from what I can tell. Has progressed almost entirely on mature age recruits, little successful effort (from what I can tell) in junior ranks or schools.

Aussie rules initially got going by clubs being started up by Aussie expats with a handful of curious locals thrown in. My reading is (correct me if I am wrong), that the proportion of Americans playing has increased, and they are now at a stage where clubs are as likely to started by Americans who played in 1 city starting up a club in another as they are by expat aussies. A positive in the US is the growth in womens football. Womens football in Oz is about 100 years behind the mens, but in the US its only about 15 years.

Starting to see kids coming along who grew up with parents playing Aussie rules. In addition to Nolan in the initial post http://www.usafl.com/node/26563 is alink to a story by Heather, teenage American girl taking a gap year in Northern Queensland, who finds herself the best Aussie rules kid in her school.

A problem, these kids seem to have to play in the adult comp to get a game, as there are no kids comps.

Positives for the US, good numbers of adult players, growing number of clubs. The more clubs in a region, the easier to organise games people can attend. Enthusiastic support for the game by local followers, as Aussie rules club culture seems to fit a niche American sports do not, a tough competitive sport played in a community social club atmosphere.

Negatives, the difficulty breaking into the junior ranks and reliance on mature converts.

Requirements for success, to find a way to get Americans into the game at a younger age.

 

[cos789]

I do not think Kiwikick will translate directly into these kids taking up and following aussie rules,.

Kiwikick is played in the off season or at least AR is in NZ.
It is also a school program so most students will participate.
It's a numbers game. Some will think it's an interesting diversion, some will play AR as an ajunct o their main sport and some will really want to go and develope their interest .A liitle bit the way junior AR is now played in NSW and has some big sports family names in AFL now.

 

[cos789]

United States

The exact opposite of NZ from what I can tell. Has progressed almost entirely on mature age recruits, little successful effort (from what I can tell) in junior ranks or schools.

Compare that with Canada that competes with the USA.
Does have two junior programs and trying to develop them more.
Does have have one very tight traditional style league.

The pro and con of the USA is that is such a big place and that makes it harder place to make an impression.

 

[*Crash*]

I wonder if St Kilda in their Kiwi push should try to get Shaun Johnson in a Hunt/Folau type crossover?

 

[Mobbs]

That Nolan kid looks quite outstanding.

 

[tonk]

Looks like a decent player.

 

[Barkly St End]

The South Pacific and World XVIII teams competing in the national U17 championships is a fantastic idea. More and more kids aged 15 or so will start competing, and they are then at an age where you can really do something with them if they have an interest in pursuing the game further

 

[IowaRL]

Negatives, the difficulty breaking into the junior ranks and reliance on mature converts.

Requirements for success, to find a way to get Americans into the game at a younger age.

Unfortunately, social sports for kids tends to be an extension of what they play in school, and getting into schools is no mean feat. State of Iowa requires 80 schools to participate before they recognize the sport. There are very few ovals here, the number of students for a full team is prohibitive, and it's hard to showcase a game without proper facilities.

 

[cos789]

Unfortunately, social sports for kids tends to be an extension of what they play in school, and getting into schools is no mean feat.

Yes. it's difficult, so where it has been achieved that has been a tremendous effort.

State of Iowa requires 80 schools to participate before they recognize the sport.

So what does the state of Iowa do once a sport is recognised?

There are very few ovals here,

That is why Nines has been such a success.

the number of students for a full team is prohibitive,

Again, that is why Nines is such a hit. Once Australian Football was hindered by the requirement for 18-a-side and ovals but with with Nines and rugby sized pitches Australian football is better placed with the use of readily available pitches and and less player requirements. Also two Nines make one traditional side.

it's hard to showcase a game without proper facilities.

Again , Nines is a much more attractive game to showcase, with intense involvement and constant action for all.

.

 

[IowaRL]

Never heard of Nines, I played in Australia when i lived in QLD and Vic. when Iowa recognizes the sport, they will organize a state championship game and open up funding avenues for schools who participate.

 

[cos789]

Never heard of Nines, I played in Australia when i lived in QLD and Vic. when Iowa recognizes the sport, they will organize a state championship game and open up funding avenues for schools who participate.

Simply, Nines is nine-aside football and commonly played on rectangular pitches such as soccer or rugby.
There are only a few minor tweaks like only three players for the centre bounce and using the existing rubgy posts (which are slightly narrower). Game times tend to be shorter because the games tend to be more intense but that is not always the case. Becuase of the lack of boundary umpires the umpire usually throws the ball up say 5m out but apart from that it plays like a traditional game. For begginners it's better than the traditional 18-a-side because everyone gets involved.

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[Green Monster]

I think for the foreseeable future (next 5 years) the only country outside of Australia that will produce players for the AFL will be converts from Gaelic Football in Ireland. It's no bad thing, but I am surprised that there are not more AFL scouts sniffing about over in Eire to check out some of the skills of the youngsters over there, as there are potentially some pretty talented footballers that could be inspired by the likes of Kennelly & Stynes.

 

[Barkly St End]

I think for the foreseeable future (next 5 years) the only country outside of Australia that will produce players for the AFL will be converts from Gaelic Football in Ireland. It's no bad thing, but I am surprised that there are not more AFL scouts sniffing about over in Eire to check out some of the skills of the youngsters over there, as there are potentially some pretty talented footballers that could be inspired by the likes of Kennelly & Stynes.

The AFL recently tweaked the rules to allow clubs to carry an additional Irish player as a rookie without actually taking up a rookie list spot.

 

[cos789]

I think for the foreseeable future (next 5 years) the only country outside of Australia that will produce players for the AFL will be converts from Gaelic Football in Ireland. It's no bad thing, but I am surprised that there are not more AFL scouts sniffing about over in Eire to check out some of the skills of the youngsters over there, as there are potentially some pretty talented footballers that could be inspired by the likes of Kennelly & Stynes.

There is a strong pathway from the PNG to the AFL with many PNG players playing in Australia.
I'm not sure of their exact status but I'd presume a PNG player would make it to AFL level soon.
GWS have drafted a South African player and you could easily see more in the future.
I expect to see more add hoc additions from overseas academys and "combines".
The Swans are adding an American to their canadian and Irish imports just as Collingwood experimented with an American. NZ could also produce an AFL player with their depth or natural talent seems to abound in the Pacific and Somalia. The AFL are reportedly starting an academy in China so that will be interesting though IMO it'll probably take a while to show some results.

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[Master Shake]

Simply, Nines is nine-aside football and commonly played on rectangular pitches such as soccer or rugby.
There are only a few minor tweaks like only three players for the centre bounce and using the existing rubgy posts (which are slightly narrower). Game times tend to be shorter because the games tend to be more intense but that is not always the case. Becuase of the lack of boundary umpires the umpire usually throws the ball up say 5m out but apart from that it plays like a traditional game. For begginners it's better than the traditional 18-a-side because everyone gets involved.

Is that that same thing as Metro rules? About 5 years ago or so I was working with an Aussie I met on getting a Windsor, Ontario team up and running in the Ontario AFL (Ontario's a Canadian province, for those who don't know). We had some success for a few years but lack of interest/players made it hard to field a team. He suggested looking at setting up what was called a Metro league composed of teams in the Detroit area, as Windsor is, more-or-less, a suburb of Detroit, to get more people interested in the sport since the set-up calls for a soccer field and 7-9 players a side.Sadly, that didn't come to fruition.

"Metro League" wasn't his name for it. I think it came from California, Arizona, or some other western US state.

 

[Barkly St End]

Metro footy and Nines are basically similar games around the same theme: smaller grounds, smaller teams, fewer officials, easier to support and maintain.

 

[cos789]

Metro footy and Nines are basically similar games around the same theme: smaller grounds, smaller teams, fewer officials, easier to support and maintain.

And Metro leagues were first formed by USA clubs to provide competition for players in an internal league because of the reluctance and cost of travelling to meet other clubs. Convieniently two 9-a-side teams can provide the basis for one club and new teams are easily added providing for a stronger 18-a-side club.

In some other countries the leagues themselves have downsized the team numbers to a figure to what they feel appropiate. (9,10,12,15). It is to be noted that even in Australia there are/were leagues with non tradional numbers. The VFA ran 16-a-side for some time. Also, in the laws of the game 14 players is the minimum number before a forfeit is declared in a tradional game though the problem there is the player number imbalance.

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[Barkly St End]

That's right, many overseas comps start up on a 9-a-side basis, merely because it's easier to get teams up and running and support those teams and games.

They then do 14, 16 or 18-a-side games for larger rep type games.

If the interest and support is there, they can grow the comp organically and try and work their way up to 14 or 16-a-side comps.

But it's very, very hard to maintain 18-a-side comps, for a host of reasons. Probably only happens in a handful of places outside of Australia (and in some rural areas in Australia, it's getting harder).

 

[cos789]

But it's very, very hard to maintain 18-a-side comps, for a host of reasons. Probably only happens in a handful of places outside of Australia (and in some rural areas in Australia, it's getting harder).

Canada. Nauru, NZ and PNG run traditional competitions.
So does Germany, but now has two metro leagues(Berlin and Munich)
The USA plays 18-a-side between clubs but most clubs now have a metro league.

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[jc37]

Interesting link...read down
http://donttellstinky.com/how-to-be-a-world-champion/

 

[jatz14]

Better keep it a secret, or everyone will want to come here and play. Who wouldnt want to be world champion

 

[Munro_Mick]

re the general conversation here:
AFL internationally - it's very hard to sustain regular 18 aside competition for a variety of reasons.
Clearly physical access to fields on a regular basis that are big enough and able to be marked out is a challenge of it's own.
Even where cricket is played.
re people - the capacity to have the numbers on a regular basis is a challenge - and compounded where distances to real opposition become prohibative.
So, locally we often see 6s,9s,12s whatever it takes to have a run around, a kick, and some competitive spirit.

Generally, the 18 aside stuff is for representative footy. Denmark is a good example, the premier division of the DAFL which includes SAFL (Swedish) sides - sees a good standard of often at least 16 aside footy played.

Likewise, in the USAFL, the local vs the rep games.

For supplying players - the talent pathway of the South Pacific is getting very much defined.
PNG is the leader - with Gideon Simon now a full international rookie at Richmond, and product of the PNG junior Binatangs, played in the Oceania Cup and for the South Pacific side in the NAB AFL u/16 nationals against Australian opposition, and spent a year at the De La Salle Port Moresby AFL PNG academy.

For kids from Fiji, Nauru etc, they now play the Oceania Cup in which NZ and PNG sit out. The Oceania Rep team will then take on NZ and PNG in a higher standard play off for the South Pacific Cup and a rep team out of that will be selected to take on Australian competition in the U16 nationals.

This talent pathway has continued to evolved since first starting about 4 years back. Expect to see more kids coming through it and perhaps a lessening of the focus on the Irish lads.

 

[Cmarsh]

Here is an update from WFN about the state of the game in South Africa.
Article says that the GFC hit the developmaent of footy hard there, but is now picking up again.
In 2012, there were over 20000 participants there (primary school kids, youth, open age players, coaches and volunteers) and the country now has 8 Australian Rules grounds, with footy goalposts, the grounds doubling as cricket grounds.

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20121228232510957