Strategy The Structure

[mediumsizered]

and when you have a core of experienced high level players in every week it makes a massive difference.

We are younger this year and have been devastated by injury. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[Stamos]

We played young opposition teams in Fremantle and Brisbane and both teams smashed us and both had notable missing players.

Hardly

 

[Soapy V]

We have players injured that aren't playing
We have players that are injured that are playing
We have young players playing that aren't fit enough yet for 4 quarters of AFL football
We have very young players that aren't physically ready for 4 quarters of football
We have yet to put the same side on the park each week which really effects continutity
We lack the depth of quality mature players at the moment

A good structure and game plan is almost impossible for us to implement week in week out yet

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

We just don't have enough running power. The reason is unclear but it's probably a combination of youth, team selection being too tall, and our high performance staff not being quite good enough (although very difficult to know as an outsider) that has resulted in us looking like a sunday league team on occasions this year.

 

[Stamos]

We just don't have enough running power. The reason is unclear but it's probably a combination of youth, team selection being too tall, and our high performance staff not being quite good enough (although very difficult to know as an outsider) that has resulted in us looking like a sunday league team on occasions this year.

Another couple of factors are that we have been down rotations early in games, and that we have been missing many of our better skilled players. It's a lot easier to run out a game when your kicks are hitting targets.

 

[Prem17]

Structure? We have one? OMG

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Byrne ASOS Plowman
Williamson MCreadie Docherty

were all unavailable yesterday and the week before and most all weeks before that....in fact all year!!!! FFS!!!

yesterday Simpson was a late out but Marchbank and Weitering couldn't finish the game

No point talking defensive structure or rebound if there are no players on the paddock.

This is what was left to defend against Brisbane

SOJ Jones Lamb
Murphy Rowe Thomas

I blame Weitering for all this.

Now understand this

Bolton pulls 2 / 6 forwards downfield in order to add numbers to stoppages so when ball flies into forward 50 - it flies straight back out - Pickett and Charlie were 2 against 4 from 2nd quarter onwards - when Phillips went down...
Hodge LITERALLY had no man on him for the last 2 quarters - he was allowed to stay in space make a cup of tea wait for his forwards to flood and roost a 60 meter bomb into Carlton's defensive 50 - goal every time.

Note how competitive the side was in Q1 before Phillips went down and Marchbank came off. Carlton was by FAR the BETTER SIDE

..down just 2 rotations and a tall forward NO PROBLEMO....

Seriously post match analysis on here is so dumb it beggars belief.

Not sure why you try and make out as if we were down 2 rotations after Q1, Caleb was taken off in the last quarter.

We kicked 3.5 in the last quarter to their 4.1 and hence, only lost it by 2 points which is equivalent to the amount we lost the first quarter by. And we did this when we actually were down 3 rotations (counting Weitering) so using rotations as an excuse is a contradiction to what happened in reality.

You list some players in red, admit they were missing most weeks for the year, yet fail to mention that when we played teams fighting for top 2 position without them, we were still highly competitive.

We were down rotations against Collingwood too, yet we fought that game out to the end.

We went from being "by FAR the BETTER SIDE" to by FAR the WORST SIDE in one quarter all because Philips went down? Ok, if that's what you believe go right ahead. Just don't call others dumb because they don't share your views.

 

[Jesse Deluxe]

Sorry mate but I don't agree with your low expectations. Phillips goes off and so everything goes out the window? That second quarter they annihilated us and Marchbank and Weiters were still in. They ripped us apart from halfback all game, including the first.
Watch it again. Only reason it was close at quarter time was they mucked up a few bad passes going into 50 and we got some lucky free kicks. Their transition was miles better than ours and they did it so easily I felt ashamed watching it.
My question to you is with all these skillful high pick players, why can't we chain 5 passes together in a row? Then ask yourself how can Geelong, Sydney and Hawthorn do it so easily without the high number of first round picks we have?
Please don't make excuses for them. See things for what they are and compare it to the rest. Other teams have plenty of injuries and they manage. Our players are not rubbish and unskilled. They will leave all us BF posters for dead. They train ok but for some reason when they pull on the team jersey on the weekend they turn into hopeless cases who mentally raise they white flag before halftime. A few goals in the last quarter means nothing for us - the other team has already had a wash and a beer and caught the train home. We are only under pressure until halftime and most games we only have 3-4 goals on the board by then. We have lost the game by that stage and the players know it. But why do they let it get so bad? Can't they at least get angry and start belting the crap out of their opponents? Their gonna lose anyway, may as well try and get an advantage somehow and put the team first!
Maybe they are trying too hard to hit targets or something. I don't bloody know and it frustrates the hell out of me that since Ratts we can't put 5 passes together without a turnover.
But what I do know is its not injury that makes us lose to the second, third and fourth last teams by 10 goals each. Save that excuse for when we play the Swans.

On the money...

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Another couple of factors are that we have been down rotations early in games, and that we have been missing many of our better skilled players. It's a lot easier to run out a game when your kicks are hitting targets.

that's true, but that happens for every side.

If you look at collingwood last year most of their players couldn't hit the side of a barn door with a football. they didn't just learn to kick over summer, their run and spread got better, their overall lineup got smaller and through hard running are able to get separation from opponents to make ball movement easier. They actually lead the league in effective disposal % now.

We can't spread like that which means instead of moving the ball by running in waves and supporting team mates, we don't have those options so we bomb it to charlie, casboult, harry etc. Which is still okay if we have dangerous smalls ready to crumb off their contest but we don't even have that.

 

[Jesse Deluxe]

that's true, but that happens for every side.

If you look at collingwood last year most of their players couldn't hit the side of a barn door with a football. they didn't just learn to kick over summer, their run and spread got better, their overall lineup got smaller and through hard running are able to get separation from opponents to make ball movement easier. They actually lead the league in effective disposal % now.

We can't spread like that which means instead of moving the ball by running in waves and supporting team mates, we don't have those options so we bomb it to charlie, casboult, harry etc. Which is still okay if we have dangerous smalls ready to crumb off their contest but we don't even have that.

Deadset think bolts has no idea. How can armchair coaches know this and he doesn’t. He’s in a bubble and thinks it’s the execution that’s wrong not the game plan.

 

[Jesse Deluxe]

We need a hibberd melksham type injection in our youth filled team like the demons did. They are both hardened senior players.
This trade period will shape our future and atleast we know now what we need. I think it is possible our players do not completly understand our game plan.

Do you rankine much?

 

[PP34]

Of course they are young and unproven. WE ARE REBUILDING. What do we do? Write off everyone that is young and unproven?

No. But it is tiring reading on here week after week how Bryne etc are huge losses.

Would they add something to our side? Of course. But it's not like they're currently playing with 4 players down back until they return next season. Each week there are 6 able bodied defenders playing down there. I can forgive them lacking run and getting exposed a bit for lack of pace because we don't have the selection options we would like. But we've still had the likes of Jones, Rowe etc all year who posters on here constantly defend. Almost every week it seems some forward tears us apart and we have tall forwards doing as they. This should not be happening if Jones etc are as good as people make out. Even with Docherty etc out.

Injuries have hurt us this year. There is no doubting that. Docherty in particular is a huge loss down back. He is an excellent leader down there, as well as an excellent intercept player and does not commit the turnovers that others have been this.

The other thing though is posters listing all these defenders we're missing. You can only play 6 defenders. How many of those do you actually think we can play in the team. Williamson and Docherty are the only two I'd slot straight in.

 

[Soapy V]

Deadset think bolts has no idea. How can armchair coaches know this and he doesn’t. He’s in a bubble and thinks it’s the execution that’s wrong not the game plan.

Wow

 

[Soapy V]

No. But it is tiring reading on here week after week how Bryne etc are huge losses.

Would they add something to our side? Of course. But it's not like they're currently playing with 4 players down back until they return next season. Each week there are 6 able bodied defenders playing down there. I can forgive them lacking run and getting exposed a bit for lack of pace because we don't have the selection options we would like. But we've still had the likes of Jones, Rowe etc all year who posters on here constantly defend. Almost every week it seems some forward tears us apart and we have tall forwards doing as they. This should not be happening if Jones etc are as good as people make out. Even with Docherty etc out.

Injuries have hurt us this year. There is no doubting that. Docherty in particular is a huge loss down back. He is an excellent leader down there, as well as an excellent intercept player and does not commit the turnovers that others have been this.

The other thing though is posters listing all these defenders we're missing. You can only play 6 defenders. How many of those do you actually think we can play in the team. Williamson and Docherty are the only two I'd slot straight in.

The reason people mentioning the same names and reasons is because nothing has changed. They are the reasons we are really struggling. Why after each bad loss do people think it has to be something different??

It really is very simple at the moment. We have a very young list with few genuine leaders that can play and a massive injury list.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Was honestly surprised that it took until yesterday’s game for the commentary team to pick up on how poorly our zone is functioning.
Have sat and watched all year as the opposition have transitioned - almost uncontested- from half back to the forward 50. I think that the theory is meant to be; we allow them a bit of space where it doesn’t hurt too much, and we rely on our (supposedly) strong intercepters (weiters, Jones, Marchbank Simpson) to cut off and hurt on the rebound. This would provide some explanation of why we continue to pick such a tall defensive six. If I’m right, I think this is a good enough spin on the zone... because it’s playing to (what was) one of our strengths - but the theory is just not coming out in practice. At what point are the midfielders instructed to close in and provide pressure to the kickers? Why are our talks not positioned to best intercept? (Or rather, why do their men continue to mark almost uncontested?) Yesterday both the pressure on the incoming kicks and the logical positioning were non existent... and not for the first time this year.

For me this structural breakdown doesn’t just end with the zone though.. watching us try to move up the wing is sometimes unbearable. Do we not have a Plan B when our rebound game is not clicking? Additionally, when the ball is eventually moved inside 50, I have zero confidence in mostly everyone (other than Charlie) to create something.. and his goals are mainly from marks. When the balls hits the ground, our forward 50 pressure and creativity are non existent. I’d also go as far to say my confidence is at a solid 0% when there is a ball up or throw-in in our forward 50.

I thought this would be a good way to open a discussion on what exactly is and isn’t working on the field. What types of players could help to improve the current (theoretical) way we are trying to structure up? Something isn’t clicking... I’d like to discuss why?

Without wanting to go too much into list management and draft territory, a Rankine in our forward half would help, but what else?
Marchbank looked effective on the wing as a strong linkup before philips went down.. so we persist with this?


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Thank you !! Ihave been commenting all year our zone is @#$* !!

Slow players on the fringes , no pressure in the fwd 50 , long bombs to Charlie , too tall down back , no Simpson no run , poor kicking skills ........

 

[Arr0w]

Structure will improve dramatically when you actually have our core group of defenders available

 

[passmark]

We're not very good.

In fact, we're really quite bad.

One win so far tells you just how bad .

Things change quickly though.

Three good mids and a fit team to select would make such a difference. Dramatic difference I'd suggest.

theres very little to be gained disecting our game style for 2018, we're just playing survival footy .

 

[mickelboy182]

Of course they are young and unproven. WE ARE REBUILDING. What do we do? Write off everyone that is young and unproven?

If you think I'm writing them off from that, you're simply seeing red. I'm writing off ASOS and using caution when claiming those others are surefire best 22.

 

[Soapy V]

If you think I'm writing them off from that, you're simply seeing red. I'm writing off ASOS and using caution when claiming those others are surefire best 22.

Stop being selective to suit. You also mentioned Byrne Williamson & Macreadie. It’s not just about best 22 it’s about having players available and playing players when fit and being consistent in selection. Injuries are effecting it all

 

[gbatman]

My experience with zones are that when they break down or aren't really implemented is because there are a lot of tired players out there who just aren't up to pushing hard to get into position all day or because the team is not competitive enough in the midfield and particularly in the forward end.

Lack of quality ball winning ability in the team. Usually when you have a poor side and you get it forward and the ball is coming straight out quickly your team tends to go more one on one and the backs don't push up as hard. When your forwards aren't dangerous and providing pressure and winning the ball then the players tend not to zone as strongly either because they can't or because they expect the ball to rebound too quickly so don't.

Zones need your team to be winning plenty of the ball or being competitive and bringing pressure to work. If the opposition are bringing the ball out of the forward line quickly, we are struggling to win the ball or the ball is going in shallow and being rebounded a zone won't work.

Maybe it's a lack of pressure because we are being lazy or we are too slow around the ball. Maybe it's our forwards and midfielders who are struggling to win the ball and compete and apply pressure.

If your midfield is slow and not applying pressure or winning a lot of the ball, if your forwards are not good enough to win the ball and it's rebounding a lot or they aren't applying pressure or it's being rebounded from shallow entries then zones will not be effective and to me this seems like more of a problem than the actual zone not being implemented well.

A lot of coaches get hammered over their game plan when stuff like this is happening, we've seen it with our last three coaches. Wasn't a problem with the game plan as much as it was a problem with the players quality.

 

[Broadside]

A lot of coaches get hammered over their game plan when stuff like this is happening, we've seen it with our last three coaches. Wasn't a problem with the game plan as much as it was a problem with the players quality.

should we be pushing a certain game plan if we don't have the cattle to implement it? should we be implementing a game plan that recognises our on-field deficiencies and making the best of a bad situation rather than blindly pushing on in the hope that if and when we have less injuries, better midfield depth, [insert next excuse here] it will all come together and we will be pushing for finals and then flags? the worry is that a 1 win season does untold damage to unquantifiables - long term supporter base, financial support including sponsors, psychological damage to the playing group (loser mentality) etc etc.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

We need a bit of the old Carlton back.. we have all bought into the clubs plan and Boltons vision and I certainly do not want to blow up what we have done so far.. In saying this we should not be accepting this, every time i see someone post or comment that we are rebuilding, we have a young list, we have injuries etc etc it makes me angry... From the North game where Bolton came out and asked for time and patience.. it was giving the players an out.. it meant that playing quality footy wasnt important because this year and each game does not matter.. It also doesnt excuse such obvious and poor selections when picking the team and even worse game day coaching..

What happened Saturday, and against Freo, Melbourne, Collingwood, North all games we went into with some confidence of winning was an absolute disgrace.. We need some strong voices back that are prepared to criticise what is going on because so far Bolton and the team have got away scot free.

 

[Big Red is back]

Was honestly surprised that it took until yesterday’s game for the commentary team to pick up on how poorly our zone is functioning.
Have sat and watched all year as the opposition have transitioned - almost uncontested- from half back to the forward 50. I think that the theory is meant to be; we allow them a bit of space where it doesn’t hurt too much, and we rely on our (supposedly) strong intercepters (weiters, Jones, Marchbank Simpson) to cut off and hurt on the rebound. This would provide some explanation of why we continue to pick such a tall defensive six. If I’m right, I think this is a good enough spin on the zone... because it’s playing to (what was) one of our strengths - but the theory is just not coming out in practice. At what point are the midfielders instructed to close in and provide pressure to the kickers? Why are our talks not positioned to best intercept? (Or rather, why do their men continue to mark almost uncontested?) Yesterday both the pressure on the incoming kicks and the logical positioning were non existent... and not for the first time this year.

For me this structural breakdown doesn’t just end with the zone though.. watching us try to move up the wing is sometimes unbearable. Do we not have a Plan B when our rebound game is not clicking? Additionally, when the ball is eventually moved inside 50, I have zero confidence in mostly everyone (other than Charlie) to create something.. and his goals are mainly from marks. When the balls hits the ground, our forward 50 pressure and creativity are non existent. I’d also go as far to say my confidence is at a solid 0% when there is a ball up or throw-in in our forward 50.

I thought this would be a good way to open a discussion on what exactly is and isn’t working on the field. What types of players could help to improve the current (theoretical) way we are trying to structure up? Something isn’t clicking... I’d like to discuss why?

Without wanting to go too much into list management and draft territory, a Rankine in our forward half would help, but what else?
Marchbank looked effective on the wing as a strong linkup before philips went down.. so we persist with this?


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As i have been syaing all year we continue to pick a side which is far to slow and top heavy, as such we cannot apply any midfield pressure making the entire zone defence fall apart.

The selection on the weekend was beyond disgusting, and at times we have picked Rowe, Weitering, Ploughman and Jones all in the one defence. I would pick max two of them, we even had the absurb approach of playing two ruckman and Marchbank on a wing on the weekend.

 

[Big Red is back]

No. But it is tiring reading on here week after week how Bryne etc are huge losses.

Would they add something to our side? Of course. But it's not like they're currently playing with 4 players down back until they return next season. Each week there are 6 able bodied defenders playing down there. I can forgive them lacking run and getting exposed a bit for lack of pace because we don't have the selection options we would like. But we've still had the likes of Jones, Rowe etc all year who posters on here constantly defend. Almost every week it seems some forward tears us apart and we have tall forwards doing as they. This should not be happening if Jones etc are as good as people make out. Even with Docherty etc out.

Injuries have hurt us this year. There is no doubting that. Docherty in particular is a huge loss down back. He is an excellent leader down there, as well as an excellent intercept player and does not commit the turnovers that others have been this.

The other thing though is posters listing all these defenders we're missing. You can only play 6 defenders. How many of those do you actually think we can play in the team. Williamson and Docherty are the only two I'd slot straight in.

spot on except for Docherty i do see any A or B graders missing.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

#nogozone
#dropzone
I'm over the zone. Let's play some accountable footy.