Analysis Thoughts on Promotion/Relegation model for the AFL

[Event Horizon]

Radical idea? In AFL terms yes, but it's an idea I would like to at least see discussed. It is obvious as to why, but in summary, we have a terribly compromised draw with the 22 round season, which many have argued couldn't be fixed. We also have a large number of teams that have nothing to play for from even way before the bye, and as the season progresses the number of such teams will obviously increase.

Here is the model which I would use as an example, which may not be perfect, but worth discussion in my view. I would like to see two new teams in the competition, one being from Tasmania, and one other from either WA, SA or anywhere else - that's a separate topic, but for the benefit of this discussion I would call 19th team Tasmania, and 20th team - Team20 for the moment.

We then have Division A which has 10 teams, allowing for 18 game season with everyone playing each other twice. We would then have top 4 or 5 finals series and have two teams relegated to Div B each season (teams 9 and 10 obviously). To make things interesting, the team finishing 8th could have a play off against the side that finished 3rd in Division B at a neutral venue.

Draft wise, nothing much changes - we look at the entire pool of teams and treat them as 1-20, with pick 1 going to Team20 and so on. TV rights wouldn't be affected, as the overall number of games will be similar (I can't be bothered working it out exactly). Yes, the initial revenue will take a hit, as the AFL won't have their standard Collingwood Carlton or Richmond Essendon type blockbusters every year, but in time this can be offset by other advantages, such as better TV deals etc.

But the advantages are huge. For starters, we would finally get a fair competition, instead of the Mickey Mouse one we have today. The game's integrity will be the BIG winner. Secondly, we would have very few games with nothing to play for, if any in the top division, and plenty of excitement in the second division. The only issue would be how to come up with incentives to the teams that are sitting down the bottom of Division B. There are always ways to do it. Come up with a draft lottery for pick 1 for starters.

I think this is ultimately the way to go.

 

[Only Forwards]

Why would you have relegation when you could simply have conferences and then a world series of finals to decide the overall winner? No club is gonna sign up on the grounds it could be relegated.

The AFL would never ever go for this because it has some semblance of fair attached to it and the AFL is all about those dollars.

God forbid Essendon didn't play off against marketing rivals Collingwood for the emotive coin of the ANZAC game.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Without promotion and relegation, the competition is a joke.

Same goes for the A-League and NRL. It is an Australian thing, and not a good one.

The more 'forward thinking' fans begin to hope their own team loses the rest of the season as early as the 1/3 mark.

Of course this is related to the draft as much as it is to 'getting games into the kids', but the lack of relegation plays its role.

I don't foresee a legitimate 'second tier' being created in my lifetime. I'm 31 fwiw.

Apparently the A-League are serious about implementing promotion/relegation in the medium-term, which I hope is true.

AFL and NRL will continue to be joke competitions and, in the case of AFL, this will include joke FIXtures.

Who cares? What else are we all going to do on weekends?

Spend more time with family members, talking about things, with no background noise or entertainment to drown out the noise?

Eugh.

 

[Event Horizon]

Why would you have relegation when you could simply have conferences and then a world series of finals to decide the overall winner? No club is gonna sign up on the grounds it could be relegated.

The AFL would never ever go for this because it has some semblance of fair attached to it and the AFL is all about those dollars.

God forbid Essendon didn't play off against marketing rivals Collingwood for the emotive coin of the ANZAC game.

The clubs should know that when it’s good enough to contend it will be promoted.

No point having clubs like Carlton and Gold Coast playing the top sides when they aren’t ready and stuffing up the fairness of the fixture in the process as some who play them twice will benefit unfairly.

I would live with it if we dropped into division 2, but at least the remainder of the season would be interesting instead of the usual bullshit of “play the kids” calls.

Splitting into conferences doesn’t solve anything.


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[Mav]

We also have a large number of teams that have nothing to play for from even way before the bye, and as the season progresses the number of such teams will obviously increase....
..... The only issue would be how to come up with incentives to the teams that are sitting down the bottom of Division B. There are always ways to do it. Come up with a draft lottery for pick 1 for starters.
.

You answer your problem with the current system with something for the Relegation System, when you could just implement your suggestion in the current system!

Sending the best young players into the second division makes no sense what so ever. Kids would sandbag in the U18's so they don't spend the majority of their careers in the seconds. Free Agency would kill the smaller clubs as the cream of the older players just went to the Div 1 clubs.

The AFLPA would never ever allow it.

Ask the Carlton crowd from the weekend if they had nothing to play for. Winning is still everything.

Without promotion and relegation, the competition is a joke.

Same goes for the A-League and NRL. It is an Australian thing, and not a good one.

The more 'forward thinking' fans begin to hope their own team loses the rest of the season as early as the 1/3 mark.

Of course this is related to the draft as much as it is to 'getting games into the kids', but the lack of relegation plays its role.

I don't foresee a legitimate 'second tier' being created in my lifetime. I'm 31 fwiw.

Apparently the A-League are serious about implementing promotion/relegation in the medium-term, which I hope is true.

AFL and NRL will continue to be joke competitions and, in the case of AFL, this will include joke FIXtures.

Who cares? What else are we all going to do on weekends?

Spend more time with family members, talking about things, with no background noise or entertainment to drown out the noise?

Eugh.

Are the American Sports of NFL, NHL and NBA a joke?

 

[AdmiralBenson]

Not a big enough base here imo.

Works ok for soccer i guess with a so much larger amount of pro teams

 

[The acurate one]

Oh and good on the OP for a nice change up, beats the normal discussions we've had 1000 times.

Population size is as stated a huge issue. Although I'd love to see our boys up against the Pies in a relegation play off, the umpires would be inventing all kinds of new shit to ensure the Pies won under strict instruction from HQ of course

 

[Snake_Baker]

I just can't see any reason it would happen, other than to slowly kill off 4-5 clubs..

 

[muttley45]

If there were ever to be 20 teams including 1 from Tassie, the other should definitely be from NT (another traditional football location), reckon they would muster up a pretty decent team too.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Are the American Sports of NFL, NHL and NBA a joke?

Only one of those is a football code so I will comment on that.

Yes, the NFL is a joke of a competition.

No surprise our AFL comp-trollers want to try to emulate it.

Although at least the NFL fixture is somewhat closer to fair: the only home-and-away (double-up) games are against teams in the same division.

Still a joke, though.

 

[Only Forwards]

No point having clubs like Carlton and Gold Coast playing the top sides when they aren’t ready and stuffing up the fairness of the fixture in the process as some who play them twice will benefit unfairly.

Revenue.

It's the reason it would never happen.

Splitting into conferences doesn’t solve anything.

Evens out the seasons creating the everyone plays the other teams twice.
Between 7/9 weeks of finals including a play off series of 3-5 ges for the premiership. This would more than offset the lost revenue.

It doesn't solve the best teams vs worst teams thing but then again either does yours. Melbourne went chocolates to boiled lollies quicker than you can say 'what streak'.

Your system would ultimately create a whole bunch of feeder clubs that top their clubs annually raid.

Conferences doesn't do that and what's more they could also be remixed after a season.

 

[Firestarter]

Carlton would be forever going up and down in an unmanipulated system. That would be hilarious.

 

[Only Forwards]

Carlton would be forever going up and down in an unmanipulated system. That would be hilarious.

As if anything in football would be unmanipulated.

 

[Firestarter]

As if anything in football would be unmanipulated.

We talking soccer or Aussie Rules? ("Yes")

 

[Only Forwards]

We talking soccer or Aussie Rules? ("Yes")

I really only know Aussie rules, but, like, maybe, both?

 

[Firestarter]

I really only know Aussie rules, but, like, maybe, both?

Yeah there's no chance in Hell that Carlton would be allowed to drop. Gil's sugardaddy Foxtel wouldn't tolerate it either.

 

[Themanbun]

I like the thought, but my main concern would be div 1 clubs being 'destination' clubs in the era of free agency.

 

[Firestarter]

I like the thought, but my main concern would be div 1 clubs being 'destination' clubs in the era of free agency.

Yeah... and it has been said by the average punter that we already have too few "AFL grade" players in the system for the number of teams as is.

 

[hilly]

Only one of those is a football code so I will comment on that.

Yes, the NFL is a joke of a competition.

No surprise our AFL comp-trollers want to try to emulate it.

Although at least the NFL fixture is somewhat closer to fair: the only home-and-away (double-up) games are against teams in the same division.

Still a joke, though.

What aspect of the NFL is a joke?

 

[Firestarter]

What aspect of the NFL is a joke?

Probably Deflategate

 

[Harris 10]

What aspect of the NFL is a joke?

I have the same question

 

[hilly]

Probably Deflategate

Please.

 

[Quintero]

Are the American Sports of NFL, NHL and NBA a joke?

Yes, they are all shit sports. Especially NFL. I was once offered tickets to the Superbowl through a client, my response was I'd rather be at the Waste Management golf tourney in Arizona or indeed the Daytona Beach Dogs in Florida.

The NBA, whilst being a shit boring sport is run very well and the actual coverage is great.

I'm glad you didn't include baseball as that is the only American sport worth watching.

 

[Mav]

Only one of those is a football code so I will comment on that.

Yes, the NFL is a joke of a competition.

No surprise our AFL comp-trollers want to try to emulate it.

Although at least the NFL fixture is somewhat closer to fair: the only home-and-away (double-up) games are against teams in the same division.

Still a joke, though.

Pfft. Doesn’t matter what the sport is. AFL is not a joke because it doesn’t have relegation.

Yes, they are all **** sports. Especially NFL. I was once offered tickets to the Superbowl through a client, my response was I'd rather be at the Waste Management golf tourney in Arizona or indeed the Daytona Beach Dogs in Florida.

The NBA, whilst being a **** boring sport is run very well and the actual coverage is great.

I'm glad you didn't include baseball as that is the only American sport worth watching.

Ignorance is bliss. NFL and NHL are great sports. BBall is good for the last 2 minutes.

Baseball is THE most boring sport in the world.

 

[Event Horizon]

Pfft. Doesn’t matter what the sport is. AFL is not a joke because it doesn’t have relegation.


Ignorance is bliss. NFL and NHL are great sports. BBall is good for the last 2 minutes.

Baseball is THE most boring sport in the world.

It is my opinion, that any sport without relegation rewards mediocrity. Where else (except US) can a club like Carlton or Melbourne be rewarded for losing games? If they want top picks, go back to Division B and rebuild from there! And reward clubs that try to fight their way through tough times.

Any club in Division B is only a season away from being back up in Div A and contending for a flag. But having such a system provides integrity to the competition, as well as a fair fixture where everyone plays each other twice, which is an absolute non negotiable!

This season, who ever plays Carlton or GC twice is pretty much guaranteed a head start. That is unfathomable anywhere else in the world.

I would watch North play in Div B without question. They'd still be up against AFL opposition, potentially some big clubs, and would have a clear goal - get back into Div A, which is more than our current goal.