Thoughts regarding Nathan Buckley?

[Greening Magic]

...and it's the 'rush' that concerns me. It wreaks of extreme self importance and I don't like it.

2 Years after signing a contract is a rush.

You're right though, let Bucks take over when we're on the slide and MM has stayed a year too long.

 

[Ed D]

Agreed

I stand corrected, not everyone on this forum is a freaking sheep

According to polls and media you're the one who is the sheep wanting Malthouse to stay on.

 

[Sasuke]

Malthouse has had a great two years. But lets not forget not long ago Geelong was playing a style of football not seen before. Then Clarkson "masterminded" the tactics to win a premiership. When the deal was signed, people were probly thinking Mick was lucky to have gotten the extra year or so given that we had a long period of time with no ultimate success. The fact the players, structures, assistants etc will remain, Buckley has the best preperation for a person taking over a job in a long while. I'll have trust in that and wish Mick all the best even if at a different club.

 

[ipswichpies]

The only one who has been arrogant has been Mick. Has not once endorsed Buckley as our next coach and has been incredibly bitter.

Buckley has been incredibly classy throughout and has just kept his mouth shut and been the best assistant he could be. All he is doing is working as hard as he can to help us go back to back, which is all he can do.

This is the absolutely true and it cannot be denied and I for one look forward to when he gets his chance,he has conducted himself in the highest manner possible and he deserves his chance and he should be given all the support he has earned.

If he had acted in a different way this season could have been a disaster but I think the club will be good hands.

 

[Avatar]

noone seems to get it. It's working. Perfectly. Next year, no doubt the team will need a refresh, players are already underwhelmed by H&A. New coach is perfect timing

So you are no one?

Plenty of other no ones out there

 

[TheFreshBanana]

noone seems to get it. It's working. Perfectly. Next year, no doubt the team will need a refresh, players are already underwhelmed by H&A. New coach is perfect timing

Yep. If your not going forward then your going backwards.

 

[stui magpie]

Stupid thread. Why the hell would Buckley volunteer to tear up a contract? He signed it in good faith, as did MM.

If the club went to him and asked him to defer for another year or 2, that's slightly different.

OP has been reading too much Shite Mike with Caro Sauce.

 

[Cyclops]

Yep, the "Mick is Angrrrrrry" headlines are just newspapers coming up with their own stories.

FWIW I think Bucks is under-experienced but the Presdient has made a decision about regime change. Whats the best way to get rid of a coach? Sack him mid-season when he's two or three years past it?

Compare us with the stupid sacking of Bailey when the club was in finals contention because some commentators demanded it: some media folks sporting little political stiffys and they're trying to rock our boat for us.

First time this has been done quite this publicly but there have been staged handovers before and they're a sign of a settled administration making mature long term decisions. Mature long term decision making is not newsworthy, so they invent some anger and bulldust to sex it up.

 

[Swooop]

IMO Nathan Buckley has behaved impeccibly throughout this whole saga.

He signed a contract to take over as coach of Collingwood Footy Club for 2012.

MM signed a contract that involved him stepping down as coach after 2011 and to then take over as DoC.

Since then, MM has clearly had second thoughts and has made public comments indicating he's not happy to be stepping down.

He has said things that IMO, have undermined Eddie and Pert and Bucks.

He has been churlish and petulant at times, and damaged his brand.

The Pies gave MM 9 yrs or so as coach with zero flags and yet still gave him this extra two...he should be very grateful for being given this opportunity, which allowed him to turn his reputation from 50/50 to mastercoach.

However, he is coaching extremely well now, the flag has made him more relaxed in a way and probably has allowed him to communicate better with an assurance that success brings behind him.

If the Bucks thing had never happened, then Yes, I'm sure he'd be happy to continue, and would do an excellent job.

But hindsight's a wonderful thing. A deal's a deal and Bucks is 100% entitled to take over as head coach.

And the whole deal did seem to sharpen the club's and MM's focus and who knows, maybe we wouldn't even have the 2010 flag had this deal not been forged.

OP, I thik you're being pretty hard on Bucks TBH and the FIGJAM is a disappointing comment IMO.

 

[Parallel Andy]

Finally some sanity.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/buckley-might-let-mick-stay-matthews-20110827-1jf98.html

 

[Ant85]

He has said things that IMO, have undermined Eddie and Pert and Bucks.

He has been churlish and petulant at times, and damaged his brand.

I said something similar to Mick on Twitter after his disgraceful TFS interview.

He blocked me straight away. Haha, I guess he didn't like the criticism.

But I'm leaning towards the view of the OP.

I don't think it's in our best interests to change guard at the moment.

Our team doesn't need a refresh, we're in the midst of success. Why cause unnecessary instability?

 

[Swooop]

Question for you Parallel Andy.

Do you think this type of thinking will make it easier or harder, when NB fulfils the contract that he signed, and takes over as coach next year?

Can you see that this is in fact undermining his charter?

Who do you think is responsible for the germination of such ideas, by his backpeddling on a deal he signed off on, via his bleatings to the media?

I guess if you believe that MM won us the premiership last year and he may win us another flag this year, I can see your point.
TBH I actually thought the same thing Matthews is saying after last year's flag, so I get that thinking.

Coaches get all the blame when things go bad ( eg Bailey, Eade)
Coaches get all the credit when things go well ( eg MM last year)

I know the buck stops with the coach, but this thinking is fanciful IMO.

There's a team of coaches, the players, the Footy Dept staff, medical and fitness guys, the wise cracking boot studder who relaxes all the players etc etc

So it's very much a team thing and cohesion is of the essence.

Bucks will bring fresh ideas and invigorate the whole place...i think he already has, and i don't see it as coincidence that he arrives back at the Club in 2010 and we win the flag that very year ( In MM's 10th year or whatever as coach)

 

[blaze036]

mm has created this horrible scenario, why couldnt he just accept the contract and not go public about it. Even if he was considering leaving dont tell the effing media. bucks will be an amazing coach and every player will respect him so much. It wasnt MM who won us the premiership, it was the players the recruiting staff, butters, and the entire coaching staff (Neeld is an EXELLENT assistant coach), and lets not forget our forward line started working so well (forward 50 pess) once buckley took over as the forwards coach.

Imo we lose nothing once MM changes role, after 2 years under him buckley could simple employ the exact same strategys if he wanted too. MM has done collingwood no favors lately after we gave him longer than most clubs would to win a flag.

 

[RobV]

Mick was lucky to get the contract that he did at the time, he was there for 9 years at the time without a flag and we had just been smashed in a prelim after a disappointing finals series the year before. IMO the deal helped spur Mick on to make the changes that he needed to make to our side; recruiting being the big one (how long have our supporters been asking for a ruckman? Ask MarkT about that, his been going on about it since I joined bigfooty)...

Bucks will be a fantastic coach and either way the deal has worked as we have won a flag and may win another.

IF Bucks was to offer to step a side I would only allow it for a year as I believe it could help spur us on to keep winning with a change of coach...fresh air and all that.

 

[mattyspies]

The way i see it is, MM wants to leave, Bucks is definitely taking over and Ed doesn't want Mick to go anywhere else and be successful.

What we should do is tell MM to piss of if he wants to, back in Nathan Buckely all the way and get rid off this director of coaching role, its nonsense.

 

[Parallel Andy]

Question for you Parallel Andy.

Do you think this type of thinking will make it easier or harder, when NB fulfils the contract that he signed, and takes over as coach next year?

Can you see that this is in fact undermining his charter?

Who do you think is responsible for the germination of such ideas, by his backpeddling on a deal he signed off on, via his bleatings to the media?

I guess if you believe that MM won us the premiership last year and he may win us another flag this year, I can see your point.
TBH I actually thought the same thing Matthews is saying after last year's flag, so I get that thinking.

Coaches get all the blame when things go bad ( eg Bailey, Eade)
Coaches get all the credit when things go well ( eg MM last year)

I know the buck stops with the coach, but this thinking is fanciful IMO.

There's a team of coaches, the players, the Footy Dept staff, medical and fitness guys, the wise cracking boot studder who relaxes all the players etc etc

So it's very much a team thing and cohesion is of the essence.

Bucks will bring fresh ideas and invigorate the whole place...i think he already has, and i don't see it as coincidence that he arrives back at the Club in 2010 and we win the flag that very year ( In MM's 10th year or whatever as coach)

I agree with most of what you said. However the head coach is the most important person within the group. Perhaps Buckley's arrival has in fact invigorated the club, but he was a piece of the puzzle, not the whole.

In response to your questions.

I believe should Nathan not delay his start as head coach then he is in fact damaging his reputation.

Is this making it easier or harder for him next year? Does he read Bigfooty? Doubtful.

Don't think that I have not been disappointed by some things that Mick has said in the media, because I'm not necessarily happy with that either. At the end of the day though it is perfectly understandable. He is the one with no leg to stand on, Nathan has a signed contract.

If perhaps an agreement has already been made for Mick to continue next year I take everything back of which I have said and apologise. Otherwise not.

 

[Prince_Rhodesia]

mm has created this horrible scenario, why couldnt he just accept the contract and not go public about it. Even if he was considering leaving dont tell the effing media. bucks will be an amazing coach and every player will respect him so much. It wasnt MM who won us the premiership, it was the players the recruiting staff, butters, and the entire coaching staff (Neeld is an EXELLENT assistant coach), and lets not forget our forward line started working so well (forward 50 pess) once buckley took over as the forwards coach.

Imo we lose nothing once MM changes role, after 2 years under him buckley could simple employ the exact same strategys if he wanted too. MM has done collingwood no favors lately after we gave him longer than most clubs would to win a flag.

What are you basing that on?
How can anybody possibly know that Nathan will be a great coach? He was one of the best (if not the best) players our club has seen, but that does not automatically make him a great coach.

A deal was done that would see Nathan Buckley succeed Mick Malthouse as Collingwood Coach after the 2011 season had ended at a time when 1: Malthouse hadn't delivered a flag in almost a decade, and 2: Nathan Buckely, Collingwood's favourite son, was about to accept the North Melbourne's Senior Coaching position. Our President didn't want to lose Nathan to North or any other club, so he put an expiry date on Malthouse's services as head coach and got Nathan back to the club.

Then we won the flag.

Whilst I hope Nathan will be a great coach, It is only hope and that's all any of us can do until we see it for ourselves.

Mick IS a great coach and obviously is at the top of his game. Now, whether that is because of his coaching/support staff, I don't know.

But what I do know is that when something is working, you don't mess with it.

Is it the succession plan that's working?
Or is it that Mick is just that good now and has everyone playing to their full potential and in cohesion with the current game plan?

I don't know.

Whatever it is, it's working.

Anything that works, that's what you do until it works no longer.

I don't see the harm in Eddie extending Micks contract for one more season and keeping Nathan on as an assistant. If anything, If Nathan was to agree to something like that, it would finally get rid of all those who refer to him as figjam and give him one more year as an apprentice which can't hurt.

The contract is his though, so ultimately it is up to him and Eddie.

As it stands, Nathan will coach next year, and I hope he is as good in that role as he was as a player.

 

[PieBeast]

What are you basing that on?
How can anybody possibly know that Nathan will be a great coach? He was one of the best (if not the best) players our club has seen, but that does not automatically make him a great coach.

A deal was done that would see Nathan Buckley succeed Mick Malthouse as Collingwood Coach after the 2011 season had ended at a time when 1: Malthouse hadn't delivered a flag in almost a decade, and 2: Nathan Buckely, Collingwood's favourite son, was about to accept the North Melbourne's Senior Coaching position. Our President didn't want to lose Nathan to North or any other club, so he put an expiry date on Malthouse's services as head coach and got Nathan back to the club.

Then we won the flag.

Whilst I hope Nathan will be a great coach, It is only hope and that's all any of us can do until we see it for ourselves.

Mick IS a great coach and obviously is at the top of his game. Now, whether that is because of his coaching/support staff, I don't know.

But what I do know is that when something is working, you don't mess with it.

Is it the succession plan that's working?
Or is it that Mick is just that good now and has everyone playing to their full potential and in cohesion with the current game plan?

I don't know.

Whatever it is, it's working.

Anything that works, that's what you do until it works no longer.

I don't see the harm in Eddie extending Micks contract for one more season and keeping Nathan on as an assistant. If anything, If Nathan was to agree to something like that, it would finally get rid of all those who refer to him as figjam and give him one more year as an apprentice which can't hurt.

The contract is his though, so ultimately it is up to him and Eddie.

As it stands, Nathan will coach next year, and I hope he is as good in that role as he was as a player.

But it wasn't working, thats the exact reason we've come up with this deal.

Buckley gave Collingwood a lot more than Mick has and for a lot less, Mick is the one who should stop being a whiny, petulant, disruptive and untrustworthy sook and adhere to what he's signed. Or piss off.

 

[rose jam]

The whole reason this story still exists is it just media reporting on media. Have a look at all the footy shows during the week, they just show clips of each others shows and radio comments. It's so stupid how they think each others opinions are important and it just keeps the same churn over and over even without any news happening

 

[Swooop]

I agree with most of what you said. However the head coach is the most important person within the group. Perhaps Buckley's arrival has in fact invigorated the club, but he was a piece of the puzzle, not the whole.

In response to your questions.

I believe should Nathan not delay his start as head coach then he is in fact damaging his reputation.

Is this making it easier or harder for him next year? Does he read Bigfooty? Doubtful.

Don't think that I have not been disappointed by some things that Mick has said in the media, because I'm not necessarily happy with that either. At the end of the day though it is perfectly understandable. He is the one with no leg to stand on, Nathan has a signed contract.

If perhaps an agreement has already been made for Mick to continue next year I take everything back of which I have said and apologise. Otherwise not.

Hi PA,

Sorry mate my questions should have been clearer.

I wasn't talking about whether all this talk on Bigfooty was making it harder for Bucks..I meant all the stuff in the media lately. And the media stuff is only really there because MM has publicly whinged about the succession plan, " I only signed the deal under duress, my mother was sick" etc etc, so then naturally the media pick it up and then by extension it all becomes awkward for Bucks/MM/Eddie/The Club.

And yes there was a deal signed by all parties for next year, that's exactly the point.

They all signed off that a contract that sees Bucks as senior coach of Collingwood next year. Done.
MM would be DoC. Done. ( though the exact details of that position may not have been fully elucidated)

Bucks has shown incredible character in keeping his mouth shut publicly through all MM's posturings and what many people would see as churlish, undermining behaviour in the media of late.

Some would say MM has told people time and again he is staying at Collingwood next year over and over.

They're right, he has.

But he's also made myriad other comments to suggest he's not happy with the signed deal, that he wants to continue coaching over and over aswell...

So his behaviour in this area has strongly contributed to the situation that sees Bucks take over pretty, much on a hiding to nothing.

I do thank him for his role in the premiership last year, but do not thank him for the position he's put Bucks, Eddie and the club in.

 

[KissmeRobbo]

I can see both sides.. without a flag for 10 years and health issues it was an excellent deal for Malthouse at the time and a perfect training ground for our long term head coach

But now Mick is at the top of his game and the health issues have disappeared.. it's his team, he bled for 10 years to get it to this point where history beckons and he's being asked to stand aside just when the records are ready to tumble

 

[jonbe54]

I can see both sides.. without a flag for 10 years and health issues it was an excellent deal for Malthouse at the time and a perfect training ground for our long term head coach

But now Mick is at the top of his game and the health issues have disappeared.. it's his team, he bled for 10 years to get it to this point where history beckons and he's being asked to stand aside just when the records are ready to tumble

Robbo he isn't being asked to step aside he AGREED to step aside. Do you think Collingwood should renege on its side of the contract and shaft Buckley instead? As for health issues at 60 I can tell you that health issues are always just around the corner mate, the metabolism is lowering with attendant increased vulnerability to illnesses - it can't be avoided. Why do you think we have an age pension? Superannuation? Retirement villiages? Etc, etc, etc. Coaching is a high pressure occupation - especially when you are coaching Collingwood. His family are desperate for him to step down and devote more time to them while he has it from all reports.

But the single most important aspect of this whole affair is INTEGRITY - do we show the world we are people of substance and follow through on our commitments or do we shaft a favorite son to suit our own purposes and more likely the media's purposes? If Buckley chooses to delay his entry into the coaching ranks so be it but for me this is about being the class people we always try to present ourselves as and following through.

 

[Swooop]

I can see both sides.. without a flag for 10 years and health issues it was an excellent deal for Malthouse at the time and a perfect training ground for our long term head coach

But now Mick is at the top of his game and the health issues have disappeared.. it's his team, he bled for 10 years to get it to this point where history beckons and he's being asked to stand aside just when the records are ready to tumble

I get that too KissmeRobbo. 100%.

But MM should not have allowed it all to play out so publicly, and he has done that through his ambiguous and veiled public comments.

He has now made life very tough on the guy who'll hopefully be coaching the Pies for the next 10 years plus and undermined his tenure from Day 1.

Anyway, enough from me on this matter.

 

[KissmeRobbo]

Robbo he isn't being asked to step aside he AGREED to step aside.

Preaching to the choir Jon, I want Buckley as much as Ed, if it comes down to only having one then it's a no contest, Bucks is the future!

But I can put myself in Mick's place, he had no option but to take the deal, yes he could have walked back then but he would have known better than anyone how close we were and probably hoped those in power would re assess based on results

They are his boys after all

 

[jonbe54]

Robbo I can sympathize with Mick but everyone's time comes sooner or later and those barren years were the first sign for me. Mick seemed to be a bit obsessed with building the list - don't get me wrong he's sensational at it but I believe along with others that it took the 'expiry date' to get him to focus on the present. He has been a sensational servant of the club and a large slice of the reason we are where we are BUT I would prefer to see him go out with 3 at least or hopefully 4 flags, including a back to back effort than to stay on for another 3 years or so and find himself leaving because the boys he loves so much have gone stale on the same old sermon that has been served up for - by then - 15+ years. Time to go Mick with our everlasting gratitude and total respect as a legend of the club.