Time for ANOTHER new beginning

[danielz_23]

Fellow Saints supporters are you now as fed up as I am?

The Saints are no longer going anywhere and will not in the near future with the current teams they put on the field and attitude.

Now lets just look back at was has transpired since 2000 -

2000 Draft - Nick Riewoldt & Justin Koschitzke
2001 Draft - Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, & Nick Dal Santo (Gram via Lions)
2002 Draft - Brendan Goddard
2003 Draft - Raphael Clarke

Now these should be the guys driving us towards glory in 2007 and 2008 which is evidently a dream!

Koschitzke obvioulsy has his 'issues', he can take a big grab and kick some goals but is no longer a centre-piece. Riewoldt is the star and may... for now... have to go to FF.

Ball (if only it was Judd!) had some good years... now he has gone down the road of Koschitzke and cannot be a centre-piece as he is targeted for being soft and having a low awareness. He wont be the major ball winner, in and under he was projected to be. Clarke a handy back-flanker... Dal Santo is all class but only a finisher and wont tackle or chase.

Goddard is another finisher who wont tackle and chase... they leave that to the 'other guys' (and so do the 'other guys' so it doesnt get done). Again he is only going to be a flanker or a role-player.

Lets not even discuss the other Clarke.

So then we have drafted slow... old ruckman... continue with slow untalented old guys (Harvey excluded of course)... and undersized youngsters who are supposed to be the 'workers'... chasers and tacklers... because we have too many 'finishers'

Gerhig and Milne have got to go, they finish a lot of goals for us when we are going good but they just lose way too many games for us. The bring nothing to the table anymore. Its time to bring in some youngsters...

 

[SIR SAINT HOTDOG]

Fellow Saints supporters are you now as fed up as I am?

The Saints are no longer going anywhere and will not in the near future with the current teams they put on the field and attitude.

Now lets just look back at was has transpired since 2000 -

2000 Draft - Nick Riewoldt & Justin Koschitzke
2001 Draft - Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, & Nick Dal Santo (Gram via Lions)
2002 Draft - Brendan Goddard
2003 Draft - Raphael Clarke

Now these should be the guys driving us towards glory in 2007 and 2008 which is evidently a dream!

Koschitzke obvioulsy has his 'issues', he can take a big grab and kick some goals but is no longer a centre-piece. Riewoldt is the star and may... for now... have to go to FF.

Ball (if only it was Judd!) had some good years... now he has gone down the road of Koschitzke and cannot be a centre-piece as he is targeted for being soft and having a low awareness. He wont be the major ball winner, in and under he was projected to be. Clarke a handy back-flanker... Dal Santo is all class but only a finisher and wont tackle or chase.

Goddard is another finisher who wont tackle and chase... they leave that to the 'other guys' (and so do the 'other guys' so it doesnt get done). Again he is only going to be a flanker or a role-player.

Lets not even discuss the other Clarke.

So then we have drafted slow... old ruckman... continue with slow untalented old guys (Harvey excluded of course)... and undersized youngsters who are supposed to be the 'workers'... chasers and tacklers... because we have too many 'finishers'

Gerhig and Milne have got to go, they finish a lot of goals for us when we are going good but they just lose way too many games for us. The bring nothing to the table anymore. Its time to bring in some youngsters...

Ball sure as hell aint soft

 

[danielz_23]

The way I see it we need to fill these VOIDS and move forward with these players:

B: VOID S.Fisher L.Fisher
HB: J.Gram M.Maguire B.Goddard
C: VOID N.Dal Santo McQualter/Montagna (cant carry both)
HF: VOID N.Riewoldt J.Koschitzke
F: C.Jones VOID VOID (need some young speedy prospect and a dedicated target)

R: VOID L.Ball L.Hayes (we need a star over and above these two, a Sam Mitchell mould guy)

Bnch: B.Voss S.Baker R.Harvey D.Armitage

excluded:
M.Hudgton - he is good when there, problem is never there. getting older.
A.Hamill - dito
F.Gehrig - its time to go son.
S.Milne - unique talent, not all positive unfortunately
A.Thompson - cant be relied upon.

needed to compete in any finals series:
* 2-3 quality runners to work and move the ball, we just dont have any
* A tough in and under, possession player to lead the team in the middle.
* A target up forward (small or large) that isnt Gehrig or Kosi
* Another half-backer/backline hand
* Some intimidation & leadership (look at Tredrea & C.Cornes, Sydney, etc!)

 

[danielz_23]

Ball sure as hell aint soft

they lay into him every week and will continue too. even if he isnt soft as an individual it makes us look soft and gets teams up because they know they can just bash and crash into us and be fine.

Riewoldt (tears), Ball (awareness), Koschitzke (no need for comment)... they are the leaders of our club and like it or not teams target them and we just look weak... everyone gets the confidence up and good night.

Sure they may do some couragous acts in the field of play but past-events have given us a huge weakness in terms of team resolve and toughness.

 

[SIR SAINT HOTDOG]

The way I see it we need to fill these VOIDS and move forward with these players:

B: VOID S.Fisher L.Fisher
HB: J.Gram M.Maguire B.Goddard
C: VOID N.Dal Santo McQualter/Montagna (cant carry both)
HF: VOID N.Riewoldt J.Koschitzke
F: C.Jones VOID VOID (need some young speedy prospect and a dedicated target)

R: VOID L.Ball L.Hayes (we need a star over and above these two, a Sam Mitchell mould guy)

Bnch: B.Voss S.Baker R.Harvey D.Armitage

excluded:
M.Hudgton - he is good when there, problem is never there. getting older.
A.Hamill - dito
F.Gehrig - its time to go son.
S.Milne - unique talent, not all positive unfortunately
A.Thompson - cant be relied upon.

needed to compete in any finals series:
* 2-3 quality runners to work and move the ball, we just dont have any
* A tough in and under, possession player to lead the team in the middle.
* A target up forward (small or large) that isnt Gehrig or Kosi
* Another half-backer/backline hand
* Some intimidation & leadership (look at Tredrea & C.Cornes, Sydney, etc!)

You are seriously underrating some of our players.. they are stars just a bit injury prone. McQualter is rubbish.. he's had his chance he should be delisted

 

[danielz_23]

You are seriously underrating some of our players.. they are stars just a bit injury prone. McQualter is rubbish.. he's had his chance he should be delisted

Am I really?... where are the results?

We dont have that many guys out that will make a difference... Maguire is the only one that has any long-term positives for the club.

 

[SIR SAINT HOTDOG]

Am I really?... where are the results?

We dont have that many guys out that will make a difference... Maguire is the only one that has any long-term positives for the club.

Excuse me... Have you not seen Lenny Hayes play.. I think he is the most important player at our club.

Fit.Strong,Tough, gets contested ball and sets up many goals. Also has great leadership skills. Quality player.

 

[danielz_23]

Excuse me... Have you not seen Lenny Hayes play.. I think he is the most important player at our club.

Fit.Strong,Tough, gets contested ball and sets up many goals. Also has great leadership skills. Quality player.

Mate I didnt say anything about Lenny Hayes.... secondly he is a lone hand... I totally agree with who you say he is...

one player, haha

 

[Fehring]

We've lost 2 in a row. We need to delist everyone. We need a new coach. We need a new president. We should move to Canberra. Injuries have nothing to do with it. Oh, wait they do. They prove that we're no good. Play the youngsters. No, wait. Delist the youngsters. And the old blokes. Delist everyone and then march them out beyond Moorabbin oval and shoot them all.

 

[danielz_23]

We've lost 2 in a row. We need to delist everyone. We need a new coach. We need a new president. We should move to Canberra. Injuries have nothing to do with it. Oh, wait they do. They prove that we're no good. Play the youngsters. No, wait. Delist the youngsters. And the old blokes. Delist everyone and then march them out beyond Moorabbin oval and shoot them all.

It might be the easy solution. Its a mess.

 

[Punter!]

Fellow Saints supporters are you now as fed up as I am?

The Saints are no longer going anywhere and will not in the near future with the current teams they put on the field and attitude.

Now lets just look back at was has transpired since 2000 -

2000 Draft - Nick Riewoldt & Justin Koschitzke
2001 Draft - Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, & Nick Dal Santo (Gram via Lions)
2002 Draft - Brendan Goddard
2003 Draft - Raphael Clarke

Now these should be the guys driving us towards glory in 2007 and 2008 which is evidently a dream!

Koschitzke obvioulsy has his 'issues', he can take a big grab and kick some goals but is no longer a centre-piece. Riewoldt is the star and may... for now... have to go to FF.

Ball (if only it was Judd!) had some good years... now he has gone down the road of Koschitzke and cannot be a centre-piece as he is targeted for being soft and having a low awareness. He wont be the major ball winner, in and under he was projected to be. Clarke a handy back-flanker... Dal Santo is all class but only a finisher and wont tackle or chase.

Goddard is another finisher who wont tackle and chase... they leave that to the 'other guys' (and so do the 'other guys' so it doesnt get done). Again he is only going to be a flanker or a role-player.

Lets not even discuss the other Clarke.

So then we have drafted slow... old ruckman... continue with slow untalented old guys (Harvey excluded of course)... and undersized youngsters who are supposed to be the 'workers'... chasers and tacklers... because we have too many 'finishers'

Gerhig and Milne have got to go, they finish a lot of goals for us when we are going good but they just lose way too many games for us. The bring nothing to the table anymore. Its time to bring in some youngsters...

So very easy to start kicking your team while it's down..

I wouldn't be hitting the panic button just yet.

$13 for the flag, perfect time to jump on!

 

[panthers]

Time for you to JUMP off the Saints I reckon Danielz.

 

[foxy_dal]

whats with all this negativeness about our players? sure there are problems. this is what i rekon

round 1: played pretty good, melbourne didnt have that many injuries then so i call it a good win.

round 2: played poor, we never play good at brisbane, or away fullstop for that matter

round 3: played great. beat a team that is suposed to be the next big thing for melbourne(bulldogs). beat them convincingly as well. i think this game showed us that we can be a good side

round 4: didnt play very good. although i think it was hard from the start having a lack of defence and essendon having lloyd and lucas having a good season.

round 5: we just didnt want it. we have a terrible record in port and that showed. again, injuries didnt help but u cant blame that. we were simply out played

i believe once we get close to full strength all the fellas will start playing better

 

[danielz_23]

whats with all this negativeness about our players? sure there are problems. this is what i rekon

round 1: played pretty good, melbourne didnt have that many injuries then so i call it a good win.

round 2: played poor, we never play good at brisbane, or away fullstop for that matter

round 3: played great. beat a team that is suposed to be the next big thing for melbourne(bulldogs). beat them convincingly as well. i think this game showed us that we can be a good side

round 4: didnt play very good. although i think it was hard from the start having a lack of defence and essendon having lloyd and lucas having a good season.

round 5: we just didnt want it. we have a terrible record in port and that showed. again, injuries didnt help but u cant blame that. we were simply out played

i believe once we get close to full strength all the fellas will start playing better

if 1/5 is the standard you want to play by.... we are not premiership contenders, but with all the time we have been given we should be. Put your money on it champ... no way in the world could our Saints beat Adelaide, West Coast, Sydney, Geelong, Port Adelaide... even the Magpies, Hawks or Cats I dont reckon.

People are just taking pot shots at my comments but you seriously tell me how we contend with a 100% healthy list and the mindset our team is and the image it has created around the comp.

 

[afl genius]

You have missed the bus

 

[panthers]

You have missed the bus

KANGAROOOOOOOOS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PUSSYCATS

 

[Goedy]

You have missed the bus

Get the hell out of here. I agree with Danielz. We do need to give some of the promising youngsters a go. who knows we could go alright, look at port they got a young team out there.

 

[johnnyhoward]

You have missed the bus

'04 and '05 were our big flag chances. I think we've had to start a new rebuilding process when we sacked GT - if he was here this year I think we'd be able to contend for the top 4.

I tipped us for 8th at the start of the year, Lyon will be a good coach in time but he's new so don't expect too much from him yet.

This year's results haven't been too flash apart from the Bulldogs win. However, we always struggle at the Gabba and against Port - so sadly no surprises in those two games. Essendon was the least expected and most disappointing loss of the lot.

 

[Kildonan]

I think we've had to start a new rebuilding process when we sacked GT - if he was here this year I think we'd be able to contend for the top 4.

It is impossible to tell what sort of luck we'd have had with player injuries etc. but I tend to agree with you. GT had 5+ years experience and he and his assistants knew the boys and knew how to motivate them, had their trust and respect. I don't think Lyon has any sort of problem with the boys, it is just that he and his assistants have still got a lot of experience to gain - and it will take more time to reach the level of trust and respect which only develops through having a shared history.

I tipped us for 8th at the start of the year, Lyon will be a good coach in time but he's new so don't expect too much from him yet.

I agree. In fact I believe with time he will end up being a better coach than GT is already. It is possibly one of those sacrifices that we as a club might have had to make in order to reach the highest level (one step backwards in order to go two steps forward).

This is not the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I can understand why some of us passionate supporters might lapse towards dispair - because we have been implicitly promised so much and yet had so little delivered, but the truth is that this is just a glitch on the way to ultimate success.

I have mentioned before the benefit of stability.

The best era of our club delivered us the 1966 premiership and several other finals appearances and a sustained era of positive win/loss ratio.

Sadly it can be argued that the second best era for our club is/was the Grant Thomas era during which the Saints delivered us several finals appearances and a short era of positive win/loss ratio.

Many believed that Ross Lyon could step in and outperform GT's achievements in his first year. This is highly unlikely - I say this not from a "who's the better coach" perspective, it is simply that a first year coach with first year assistants needs to forge relationships with the players and gain the experience of having awful things go wrong and good things go right. It is simply a water under the bridge thing.

Now we have to wait, while our pup (should I say cub?) of a coach grows up - lets hope he's still with us as a gnarly old dog.

 

[danielz_23]

Good comments guys.

My perspective is coming from the point that we have had all these drafts picks and opportunities. The gut wrenching thing is that so many of the players with top pedigree are just not working out and some people need to smell the roses and realise it... they have been given ample time to develop. Plus you'd have to feel some are being damaged property (ie. Ball & Kosi).

We seem to be 'carrying' a lot of players and we dont have enough ball movers to be a consistantly good team. As I've said we seem to have a lot of guys that want to the be the 'finishers'... Dal Santo, Goddard, being a couple. Dal Santo isnt interested in tackling and chasing, he is an offensive player and damn good at it... which is fine if we had the other pieces which we dont.

A lot of our injuries are in defense... and that hasnt really been the major problem in our game. Its our midfield and forward line and that has been full strength

 

[saints]

how about we look at the old guy beveridge who is recruiting all these guys. Why does he always seem to either pick a smokey (Sweeney) or a recycled player ( Ferguson, Birss).
Its time now to get the younger guys in to the side (armitage, c.jones etc...)

Players i feel need to be weeded out of the club
Milne, McQualter, Rix, Blake, Gherig, R.Clarke, Thompson, Watts, Brooks and thats to start.
These guys have has there chance and shown nothing.

Now injuries is an excuse to an extent but with all the injuries why have no players really stepped up besides a few (Gram, Montagna, Goddard, S.Fisher). Our beromoter is Aaron Hamill, if he can stay fit for a full year we are a 5 - 6 goal better side. Everyone tackles and chases harder.

 

[Red Gum]

Hope that you blokes aren't calling yourselves supporters of The Saints. A win this weekend and we're 3-3. How about showing a little faith, especially in blokes who've served the club admirably. It's so disappointing to see a bloke like Gerhig have a bad game in atrocious conditions and suddenly be replaced in the strating 18 with the word VOID. Bloody disgraceful. He's won 2 colemans and can still be a great forward target for us.

Let's be realistic. We've suffered with injury and that's made us a fragile team. Suddenly a bloke like Ball or Hudghton isn't seen for the tough competitor they are because we're concerned for their safety. That's a shame but it's an indication of what they once had and (in Ball's case) will have again.

We need leg speed through the middle; that's just part of modern football, but C Jones and Armitage are speedsters. Give them time to develop. In the meantime Joey can run through the middle, Gram and Goddard can strike forward from half back, Baker can neutralise their runner. It's not dire yet.

We got done by Port Adelaide in Adelaide. That's happened about 9 out of the last ten times we've played there so let's not over-react. We got done by Brisbane in Brisbane, hardly the first or last time that will happen to a side. We got done by the Dons when we had no tall backs after 1/4 time and they had Lloyd, Lucas, Laycock. Just like we smashed the Dogs when they had no tall backs and we had Gerhig, Kosi, Clarke.

If this is the hardest time you've had as a Saints fan then welcome aboard, but don't jump off us too easily or you won't be able to enjoy the times when things come together and we come marching in!

 

[Red Gum]

Players i feel need to be weeded out of the club
Milne, McQualter, Rix, Blake, Gherig, R.Clarke, Thompson, Watts, Brooks and thats to start.
These guys have has there chance and shown nothing.

Rix: Has had a dozen or so games as a back up ruckman and in Round four got the third most hitouts of any ruckman in the comp. Hasn't really had a proper run yet and has shown some good signs.

Blake: Having his best year yet. Beat Sandilands in the ruck in Tassie last year. Can play any position and while he won't be a star he's a good depth player.

R.Clarke: Developing and hampered by injury. Hasn't really had a chance yet.

Thommo: When Ball was injured and hayes not 100% he was our hardest midfielder. Probably wouldn't still fit in the starting 22 if we had a fully fit midfield but we don't, won't, and may never. Necessary for team depth.

Watts: Played a game, looked OK, broke his leg, hasn't played since. Had his chance has he?

Brooks: Didn't get a game till late last year and when he did he had a cracker kicking goals and doing a fair job in the ruck. A good option as a tall forward to take pressure off Roo / Kosi and can work through the ruck. Has only had half-a-dozen games, hardly been given a chance.

You need to give time for players to develop. Look at Tomahawk for the Cats, explodes like a firecracker in his first two and then very quiet in his next two. Nathan Ablett the same. I thought Goddard was our worst mistake for his first couple of years. Even Bryce Gibbs the 'ready-built midfield talent, has been largely relegated to back pocket for his development.

Give us a break.

 

[bluejay]

Hope that you blokes aren't calling yourselves supporters of The Saints. A win this weekend and we're 3-3. How about showing a little faith, especially in blokes who've served the club admirably. It's so disappointing to see a bloke like Gerhig have a bad game in atrocious conditions and suddenly be replaced in the strating 18 with the word VOID. Bloody disgraceful. He's won 2 colemans and can still be a great forward target for us.

Let's be realistic. We've suffered with injury and that's made us a fragile team. Suddenly a bloke like Ball or Hudghton isn't seen for the tough competitor they are because we're concerned for their safety. That's a shame but it's an indication of what they once had and (in Ball's case) will have again.

We need leg speed through the middle; that's just part of modern football, but C Jones and Armitage are speedsters. Give them time to develop. In the meantime Joey can run through the middle, Gram and Goddard can strike forward from half back, Baker can neutralise their runner. It's not dire yet.

We got done by Port Adelaide in Adelaide. That's happened about 9 out of the last ten times we've played there so let's not over-react. We got done by Brisbane in Brisbane, hardly the first or last time that will happen to a side. We got done by the Dons when we had no tall backs after 1/4 time and they had Lloyd, Lucas, Laycock. Just like we smashed the Dogs when they had no tall backs and we had Gerhig, Kosi, Clarke.

If this is the hardest time you've had as a Saints fan then welcome aboard, but don't jump off us too easily or you won't be able to enjoy the times when things come together and we come marching in!

Rix: Has had a dozen or so games as a back up ruckman and in Round four got the third most hitouts of any ruckman in the comp. Hasn't really had a proper run yet and has shown some good signs.

Blake: Having his best year yet. Beat Sandilands in the ruck in Tassie last year. Can play any position and while he won't be a star he's a good depth player.

R.Clarke: Developing and hampered by injury. Hasn't really had a chance yet.

Thommo: When Ball was injured and hayes not 100% he was our hardest midfielder. Probably wouldn't still fit in the starting 22 if we had a fully fit midfield but we don't, won't, and may never. Necessary for team depth.

Watts: Played a game, looked OK, broke his leg, hasn't played since. Had his chance has he?

Brooks: Didn't get a game till late last year and when he did he had a cracker kicking goals and doing a fair job in the ruck. A good option as a tall forward to take pressure off Roo / Kosi and can work through the ruck. Has only had half-a-dozen games, hardly been given a chance.

You need to give time for players to develop. Look at Tomahawk for the Cats, explodes like a firecracker in his first two and then very quiet in his next two. Nathan Ablett the same. I thought Goddard was our worst mistake for his first couple of years. Even Bryce Gibbs the 'ready-built midfield talent, has been largely relegated to back pocket for his development.

Give us a break.

Absolutely agree with you on everything.
Except for, and let me remind you, we played like a crappy team with many players not giving their best effort in both our last losses. There are ways and ways to lose, and that's not one I thought I would see under Ross Lyon. But well, I will give them time also.

 

[saints]

Rix: Has had a dozen or so games as a back up ruckman and in Round four got the third most hitouts of any ruckman in the comp. Hasn't really had a proper run yet and has shown some good signs.

Blake: Having his best year yet. Beat Sandilands in the ruck in Tassie last year. Can play any position and while he won't be a star he's a good depth player.

R.Clarke: Developing and hampered by injury. Hasn't really had a chance yet.

Thommo: When Ball was injured and hayes not 100% he was our hardest midfielder. Probably wouldn't still fit in the starting 22 if we had a fully fit midfield but we don't, won't, and may never. Necessary for team depth.

Watts: Played a game, looked OK, broke his leg, hasn't played since. Had his chance has he?

Brooks: Didn't get a game till late last year and when he did he had a cracker kicking goals and doing a fair job in the ruck. A good option as a tall forward to take pressure off Roo / Kosi and can work through the ruck. Has only had half-a-dozen games, hardly been given a chance.

You need to give time for players to develop. Look at Tomahawk for the Cats, explodes like a firecracker in his first two and then very quiet in his next two. Nathan Ablett the same. I thought Goddard was our worst mistake for his first couple of years. Even Bryce Gibbs the 'ready-built midfield talent, has been largely relegated to back pocket for his development.

Give us a break.

Jason Blake has possibly the worst disposal in the league, he time and time wastes the ball for us. So he beat Sandilands once. Wont happen again.

Fergus Watts got dropped after that game against West Coast because he played like crap and got injured in the VFL.

Barry Brooks has been on the list for how many years? He has kicked 3 goals one game in what was a dead rubber against a depleted Brisbane. Absolute hack!!

Andrew Thompson, im sorry i put him in this catagory, has been a champion for the footy club but i think his time is just about up.

Raph Clarke, cant get his body right, move him on.

Michael Rix is not an AFL league footballer full stop. May of had 3rd most hitouts but where did they go.

Now i love the saints as much as everyone else but to watch so many good players underpeform and make excuses like injuries time and time again is a discgrace. Look at Adelaide's injury list that puts it in perspective