Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[NthBondiDoggies]

Of course if we want to trade in we need to give something. But who we trade out should be both a reasonable trade but hopefully somewhere we have ample but the other team doesn’t.

All that leads to trading someone like Dunkley, McLean or Jong - inside Mids to a team at the lower end of the contested possession/clearance ratings and either excess fast forwards or Key Defenders - ie Essendon, Hawthorn, Gold Coast, St Kilda, Brisbane etc.

Then we have to work our who will deal fairly - that generally scratches off Essendon.

Having said that I am not a fan of trading Dunkley - mostly because I would like to see a rotation that had Bont and Macrae forward 50% of the time - an Dunk in a rotation taking Bont’s and Macrae’s role in the guts - this allows at any time two big Mids keeping our clearance rating high. He was great there at the end of the year.

Having either Bont or Macrae in the forward line adds a couple of goals a game and both are hard match ups especially Bont but Macca is underrated as a forward.

Dunks is the kind of player that the tougher the role the better he plays - putting him at half forward is a mistake he goes backward.

Given that a starting line up normally has 5 Mids in the midfield, 1 HFF, 1 HBF and 3 on the bench then that is 10 and you need something similar in the VFL - so 18-20 on the list. One this basis we are about right.

Our mid group is one of the deepest in the comp:

Bigs:

Bont
Macrae
Dunkley
Williams
Jong
Lipinski

Medium

Wallis
Libba
West
McLean
Hayes
Webb

Small-speed

Daniel
Smith
Hunter
Red
Dale
Porter

Issue is that very few above are fast / speed is an issue.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Defence is an area we don’t go anywhere nears as deep:

With JJ back we will be much better but we lack speed and genuine size with a oversupply of flankers and utilities.

For speed we have JJ, Lynch and Daniel.

For size we have Young, Fletch and perhaps Trengrove.

For both of these we are short in number (at AFL standard ) and quality.

For size:

I still think Trengrove should play defence - rotating through ruck like the tall forward. When I say this I get a condescending comment but let’s face it - our defence does Ok for much of the game but then get exposed to lack of height. I still have hope for Young but he showed he is a long way off playing AFL and needs to gain confidence - just looked scared. So with that if we want to play a tall defender we only have three choices:

- Young - could be the long term but not ready

- Fletch - is OK but we are not seeing improvement at a noticeable level - this could be about where he is. If I were him - I would expect I am not going to get much faster but I can get stronger - so hit the gym and then be a good option for the very big forwards

- Trengrove - wasn’t he all Australian or was it best and fairest as a CHB? He is not fast but he fights and is aggressive - for large chunks of the game he could play ruck but would go back as we get tired or exposed to talls. When he played there he was not great but he is probably our best and is playing in the twos.

Bevo wants to develop a genuine ruckman but think ENGLISH needs help and Sweet would even moreso. Besides Scache as a second has been terrible - seems to have no clue what to do and his forward work is suffering.

Boyd coming back will solve this but then need to make a forward line with Boyd, Scache and Naughty work.

For speed - we can move Red in but may need his speed forward depending on how Dale comes back to the level her was and keep improving. We have options.

So best defence would probably be:

JJ Cordy Daniel

Crozier Trengrove Wood

(Suckling interchange - Red rotating through - Williams also interchange with Wood and Crozier).

So depth is:

Speed: Lynch, Vandermeer

Intercept: Lauchlan Young, Khamis

Small defenders: Duryea, R.Smith

Talls: Fletch, Lewis Young

Not as much depth as many others but one more tall like a Sam Collins or Sam Day and looks much better. My favourite over the past few years was Daniel McStay but his star his risen and maybe very hard to get.

 

[dergert]

Not trading out jong when he had huge currency was a blunder.

 

[DognBones]

Would love to make a play for Adam Tomlinson from GWS who is a RFA at season's end. Originally from Melbourne, he's mobile and a strong mark. Currently plays midfield and defence for GWS - would fit Bev's versatility mantra perfectly.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Forward line is really the biggest issue as we know.

Best current forward line is:

Gowers Boyd Dickson

Wallis (mid) Schache Naughton

Three talls threw small/medium but really slow.

Best defence in the Comp is probably WCE

Sheppard Barrass Hurn

Jetta McGovern Cole

They would likely mark or bring the ball to ground and take it away too easily. Not sure we can play too 200cms unless they can hold 5 marks plus every game and today the don’t.

Most of the top teams have one beanstalk only and more pace. Comparing them:

WCE: Key Forward: Kennedy; Resting ruck: Hickey; 2nd Tall: Darling; 3rd tall Allen (or Waterman). Both Darling and Allen are also pretty quick but add Liam Ryan and Willie Rioli. Then add Cripps, Petruccelle and Venables and Ah Chee and you have a great forwardline.

With Brander and McGuinness good tall depth and future.

ADE: Key forward: Tex; Tall/resting: Jenkins; 2nd Tall: Tom Lynch; 3rd Tall: Fogarty (not in line up atm and lost McGovern); then Eddie Betts(best in the business), Milera, Gallucci, Douglas and Knight.

Richmond - now with Lynch, Jack R, Caddy and an army of good smalls led by Rioli, Higgins and Castagna they are arguably the fastest forward line.

In short we are way off these. But not just that but how many of our forwards would even make it into their starting line ups - should have a couple at least.

Dickson is still not back to where he was and is not really a fast rover or a scrapper like Picken or Smith (maybe Rourke Smith?). Result is that teams can get the ball to ground and feel they will clear better than we can attack.

Depth is: Greene (more a replacement for Gowers or smaller Naughton. Cavarra could be what we need but needs to kill it in VFL first.

Red and Smith will spend time in there as will Bont and Macrae but depth here must be about as low as any in the AFL.

Need a small fast or fighter (Gray like but only one that looks available is Ballantyne?) Could mean moving McLean in most of the time as a fighter. Not sure.

And a third tall (more the 192-195 type) we have the 200cm types covered.

Naughton is nailing this at the moment (looking like a future start) but lose him and nothing much behind him

Could go for reserves star like Hammelmann (for us this could be Gardiner?) but this does not create winners in the forward line like those above.

To do this we need to go for a Star or a recent draftee who could be a star but with others in front like Darcy Fogarty or stack draft picks in a bundle for a couple of the best options.

Or we could be patient? Boyd and Schache are as high a draft pick as you could get and one of them will likely make it. Then add Naughty and a couple of others and go that way? Dunno?

 

[VitalDread]

Jack Martin would be deadly in our line up

 

[BRWB]

As long as they stay healthy. Libba is only an ACL away from retirement. Not expecting it but it’s got to be a possibility.

I have little doubt the club would like to keep Dunks.

Question is if he will want to stay when he is fifth banana and could be no 1 or 2 inside bull elsewhere.

 

[dogwatch]

Would love to make a play for Adam Tomlinson from GWS who is a RFA at season's end. Originally from Melbourne, he's mobile and a strong mark. Currently plays midfield and defence for GWS - would fit Bev's versatility mantra perfectly.

People keep raising Tomlinson every week or two. It's understandable but as posted earlier he's unlikely to be available. He's made it pretty clear he's staying with the Giants.

Still, I suppose if we offered a stupendous amount of money it might help change his mind. There's some history with that sort of thing between GWS and us (Ward, Boyd).

I just don't think he's worth a stupendous amount especially if it means he gets paid more than genuine stars like Bont, Naughton, Macrae etc.

 

[Maverick Dog]

Jack Martin would be deadly in our line up

He would certainly add, pace, skill, xfactor and is a bad shot for goal so would fit right in. Like Bont he should hardly miss but does. He would be a great get but my concern is like Wingard, having no indigenous players on the list may hurt our chances in landing a player like Martin

 

[Sharkey66]

He would certainly add, pace, skill, xfactor and is a bad shot for goal so would fit right in. Like Bont he should hardly miss but does. He would be a great get but my concern is like Wingard, having no indigenous players on the list may hurt our chances in landing a player like Martin

bombers were into him big time this year but gold coast refused to trade. If he leaves end of this season most likley he would go there.

 

[Maverick Dog]

bombers were into him big time this year but gold coast refused to trade. If he leaves end of this season most likley he would go there.

He would have to be on $600 plus, cannot see Bombers be able to squeeze him in but cannot remember if they were still interested after they got Shiels.

 

[Th3 DoG FaTh3R]

Jeff Garlett would be a good fit

 

[Next Waiting]

Dunkley is an inside beast.

But he can't play there much unless you rate him ahead of Libba, Macrae and Bont

If Bont Macrae and Libba each only attend every 3rd on average he could be there all the time. Thats unlikely but Id have him as one of 4 regulars.

Ultimately I think the choice is between him and Wallis. Wallis may have an edge in fwd craft but his speed (separation or closing/chasing) remains a concern although if other fwds are even slower he survives I guess.

 

[footyfan000001]

If the Swans came out and were keen to trade buddy to a club if they took on 3/4s of his salary plus offered a first round pick - would you take him at the dogs?

 

[ossie_21]

If the Swans came out and were keen to trade buddy to a club if they took on 3/4s of his salary plus offered a first round pick - would you take him at the dogs?

Yes

 

[Virgin Dog]

bombers were into him big time this year but gold coast refused to trade. If he leaves end of this season most likley he would go there.

Apparently Bombers cooled on him because of acquiring Shiel, meaning a lot less cap space. Wouldn't rule him out of heading somewhere like Geelong or Hawks instead. Either way, little chance we get him as always

 

[Virgin Dog]

If the Swans came out and were keen to trade buddy to a club if they took on 3/4s of his salary plus offered a first round pick - would you take him at the dogs?

Like we get their first? * yes, wouldn't even hesitate. He can be selfish as * but with a forward line like ours, I don't think we can afford to be picky. Not to mention we have ample cap space that wouldn't stop us fitting him in.

 

[footyfan000001]

Like we get their first? **** yes, wouldn't even hesitate. He can be selfish as **** but with a forward line like ours, I don't think we can afford to be picky. Not to mention we have ample cap space that wouldn't stop us fitting him in.

No we give up our first and take on 3/4s of his salary

 

[Virgin Dog]

No we give up our first and take on 3/4s of his salary

Oh haha then nah, no way. That's likely to be a top 10 pick in return for a guy on the wrong side of 30 who can barely make it to training these days. If we got him as a free agent or for no pick cost, then I'd love to take him on, but if it cost us a first (which it probably would considering he still has a long time to go on his contract) then I think there are way, way better targets

 

[Northernsoul74]

Apparently Bombers cooled on him because of acquiring Shiel, meaning a lot less cap space. Wouldn't rule him out of heading somewhere like Geelong or Hawks instead. Either way, little chance we get him as always

He was very interested in Port Adelaide apparently.

 

[ossie_21]

No we give up our first and take on 3/4s of his salary

I’d change my answer then, depending on what they would offer back but then it’s going too deep into a very unlikely hypothetical

 

[BRWB]

If Bont Macrae and Libba each only attend every 3rd on average he could be there all the time. Thats unlikely but Id have him as one of 4 regulars.

Ultimately I think the choice is between him and Wallis. Wallis may have an edge in fwd craft but his speed (separation or closing/chasing) remains a concern although if other fwds are even slower he survives I guess.

Dunks just seems a one position player. Don't think he gets the minutes in there though. Be interested to see the stats.

Wallis has been recontracted so it puts Dunks at risk I reckon. Other clubs will after him.

 

[VitalDread]

Happy to take on Buddy as a salary dump hahaha

 

[Virgin Dog]

Happy to take on Buddy as a salary dump hahaha

At the expense of our 1st rounder though? I'd take a Scully-type deal if that was the offer

 

[VitalDread]

At the expense of our 1st rounder though? I'd take a Scully-type deal if that was the offer

Pick 18 for Buddy isn't too bad