Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 3 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogsman16]

Nankervis may not be available with Soldo going down.
McEvoy looks close to the end.
Goldstein appears unavailable.
Not sold on Preuss.
Sinclair might be an option?
Who else is available?

Hear me out on this but I think a Mason Cox/Levi Casboult would be best suited.

Someone who can be competitive in the ruck as well as take a contested mark up forward. Why I mention cox is because he's in the wrong team. If Grundy wasn't so good in the ruck (and better as a forward) he would get involved more often.

He's main rucked twice
43-35 hitouts vs Zac Smith
25-31 hitouts vs Paddy Ryder

So he's certainly no liability as a ruck. And he can take a grab up forward. I'd also be interested to see how much attention he would get (and body contact), when Naughton already draws the best/biggest defender. 19g 10b (2019) 11g 1b (2020) so he also kicks straight.

Imo Tim English should only be rucking around 50% of the game. Similar split to what Roughead and Boyd did in 2016 GF.

 

[weltschmerz]

With McLean out for probably a year, I'm definitely keen to make a play for O'Halloran.

 

[Philthy1]

Hear me out on this but I think a Mason Cox/Levi Casboult would be best suited.

Someone who can be competitive in the ruck as well as take a contested mark up forward. Why I mention cox is because he's in the wrong team. If Grundy wasn't so good in the ruck (and better as a forward) he would get involved more often.

He's main rucked twice
43-35 hitouts vs Zac Smith
25-31 hitouts vs Paddy Ryder

So he's certainly no liability as a ruck. And he can take a grab up forward. I'd also be interested to see how much attention he would get (and body contact), when Naughton already draws the best/biggest defender.

Imo Tim English should only be rucking around 50% of the game. Similar split to what Roughead and Boyd did in 2016 GF.

It might work but I don’t see Bevo going for either.
Goldstein seems like a match for Bevo. Shame he appears unavailable.

 

[Dogsman16]

It might work but I don’t see Bevo going for either.

If Jordan Sweet was AFL standard, imo Tim English would be played in the dual role. I think its more a forced move due to list management rather than Bev's preference. He certainly played 2 rucks all throughout 2016 when we were at our peak.

I think Bev would rather pick a "best 22" rather than adhering to structures. Hence why rd 1 v Collingwood we picked 3 tall forwards and against Port Adelaide we had one.

Both unobtainable but Oscar Mcienerny, Rory Lobb are the type or ruck/forward that would work sooo well with English.

Can take a grab forward, can hold their own in the ruck.

 

[Philthy1]

If Jordan Sweet was AFL standard, imo Tim English would be played in the dual role. I think its more a forced move due to list management rather than Bev's preference. He certainly played 2 rucks all throughout 2016 when we were at our peak.

I think Bev would rather pick a "best 22" rather than adhering to structures. Hence why rd 1 v Collingwood we picked 3 tall forwards and against Port Adelaide we had one.

Both unobtainable but Oscar Mcienerny, Rory Lobb are the type or ruck/forward that would work sooo well with English.

Can take a grab forward, can hold their own in the ruck.

my concern is if English goes down the cupboard is bare. A second genuine ruck is vital. Bevo builds his structures around available players who are in form.

 

[adogsfan5]

my concern is if English goes down the cupboard is bare. A second genuine ruck is vital. Bevo builds his structures around available players who are in form.

We absolutely must recruit another mature age ruck. Non negotiable

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Schache is in his 5th AFL season And was dropped after a 2 disposal game. If he was going to make it he would have by now.

I wish the kid well and hope he does better at his next club.

As a key forward having a large tank and great skills aren't enough in the modern game. Particularly with the modern zoning system and the fact that Schache doesn't draw the number 1 KPD means that he simply isn't able to run the opposing Key Defender off their legs. Mediums who are good overhead could easily match up on him and close his space down or just outbody him in the contest.

So if that method of finding the footy isn't available how else is he to find his own ball. He doesn't have the strength to outbody defenders in the aerial ball and nor is he quick enough to get separation.

Unless it's a dry ball with a dominant midfield he simply doesn't have any method to contribute. Granted he kicked plenty of goals in the back half of last year but a lot of them (as i posted with his 2019 highlights in another thread) were from general play kicks or from free kicks.

In another system that allowed 3 talls to be played as well as cleaner forward entry (particularly in a team that kicked more - constant handball makes leadup forwards role more difficult) he may succeed.

Unfortunately for Josh his lack of athleticism is his major issue.

The fact that he can’t get a game over a bloke who has kicked one goal in six games (who also had a 2 disposal game in there and a game with 0 effective disposals), does not bode well for his future at the dogs. Does have a long time left on his contract, so has time to get back in the good books if he isn’t traded.

I’m not sure if he makes it, I’m not sure if he gets another chance at another club. I was impressed with his form in the second half of the season last year and was hoping he’d build on that this year. Bit like Lewis Young, wish we knew more about him at this stage. End of last season they were both in the will they or won’t they make it category, both had games where they showed signs and had other games where they got caught out. Since they haven’t had games this year I don’t think we’re any closer to knowing.

 

[SayerTheCreator]

Brody Mihocek if you are throwing the kitchen sink at players at least spell their names right and kitchen sinks hurt not that i have
ever had a kitchen sink thrown at me. If a coach is drunk at the Christmas Party and says to the list manager just get me a MAIN
man and the the list manager turns up with Chris Mayne, just a small example of a simple to make error and why spelling is so
important.

Because it could have been mixed up with the other Mihocek/Mihochek?

Thanks for the citation, grammar police, I’ll be more careful next time.

 

[Dale4captain]

I get the need for a mature ruck, but I don’t see us getting one this year. Reduced lists coupled with next to no draft picks to use means we won’t have the option.

One thing I noticed with Tim that seems to tell me if he’s on for the day or not: it’s the boundary ruck contests. If Tim is taking front position and being a little more assertive in his positioning, he is almost always on for a decent game. It’s when he settles for the second position in the contest that he gets whooped becuase he doesn’t have the body strength to move then bloke in front of him. I could pull up 50 contests where this has happened this year. Seems he knows that it happens and is trying to adjust it.

His centre square stuff is fine. He can run and leap at anyone and usually at least break even becuase the oppo ruck can’t physically roll him out or dominate with strength. Watch a few of his good and bad games back and you’ll be surprised with how much of a barometer this is for Tim’s performances.

 

[doggy_dog]

Corr sounds like a done deal to North, which is a shame as I think he would have been a good addition to our team without the need for a trade. I hope we threw our hat in the ring at least. If we miss him because North put in a monster bid that’s fine, but I’d be disappointed if we didn’t have a crack. I guess Tarrant could potentially become a short term option now and take the heat off Young/Gardner for another season or two.

I don’t think we’ll land a best 22 caliber ruck this year. Suspect we’ll trim Bruce down a touch and put a bit of time over the preseason into his ruck craft. He’s physical enough and tall enough, all he needs to do is halve the contest in that relief role.

We certainly need another reserve ruck option though. It’s evident that Tim was cooked for those 4-5 weeks when he was struggling, after the bye he looks back to his early season form. We must have the ability to manage his loads and give him a week off when required.

 

[bresker]

I get the need for a mature ruck, but I don’t see us getting one this year. Reduced lists coupled with next to no draft picks to use means we won’t have the option.

One thing I noticed with Tim that seems to tell me if he’s on for the day or not: it’s the boundary ruck contests. If Tim is taking front position and being a little more assertive in his positioning, he is almost always on for a decent game. It’s when he settles for the second position in the contest that he gets whooped becuase he doesn’t have the body strength to move then bloke in front of him. I could pull up 50 contests where this has happened this year. Seems he knows that it happens and is trying to adjust it.

His centre square stuff is fine. He can run and leap at anyone and usually at least break even becuase the oppo ruck can’t physically roll him out or dominate with strength. Watch a few of his good and bad games back and you’ll be surprised with how much of a barometer this is for Tim’s performances.

I agree, you can see him visibly wilt after a few boundary ruck contests. Grundy has him beaten before the game starts IMO.

 

[Dogsman16]

I get the need for a mature ruck, but I don’t see us getting one this year. Reduced lists coupled with next to no draft picks to use means we won’t have the option.

One thing I noticed with Tim that seems to tell me if he’s on for the day or not: it’s the boundary ruck contests. If Tim is taking front position and being a little more assertive in his positioning, he is almost always on for a decent game. It’s when he settles for the second position in the contest that he gets whooped becuase he doesn’t have the body strength to move then bloke in front of him. I could pull up 50 contests where this has happened this year. Seems he knows that it happens and is trying to adjust it.

His centre square stuff is fine. He can run and leap at anyone and usually at least break even becuase the oppo ruck can’t physically roll him out or dominate with strength. Watch a few of his good and bad games back and you’ll be surprised with how much of a barometer this is for Tim’s performances.

Trengrove is probably gone. It's almost negligent if we just had English and Sweet as our only rucks on the list.

Room just has to be made for an additional ruck.

Do agree with your assessment of English though.

 

[BEaston]

I just don't see what these C-grade ruck/fowards do in improving our best 22. Rather just stick with Bruce and English.

If we brought in Cox, we'd most likely still be playing Bruce in the forward line and then we lose a runner around the ground. For what it brings in I don't think it's worth it.

I'd only be keen on a legit #1 ruckman.

 

[Dogsman16]

I just don't see what these C-grade ruck/fowards do in improving our best 22. Rather just stick with Bruce and English.

If we brought in Cox, we'd most likely still be playing Bruce in the forward line and then we lose a runner around the ground. For what it brings in I don't think it's worth it.

I'd only be keen on a legit #1 ruckman.

As much as I love Bruce the bloke, Cox in this team would force Bruce out of the team. Or he'd have to find a defensive position (unlikely as that sounds).

Right now if we are selecting a team and we had Cox and Bruce on the list, Cox would be preferred. Guaranteed.

Mason Cox and Josh Bruce AFL Stats Comparison

Mason Cox and Josh Bruce AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Comparison right now. Cox doesn't have Naughton taking the main defender either.

 

[0utsider]

As much as I love Bruce the bloke, Cox in this team would force Bruce out of the team. Or he'd have to find a defensive position (unlikely as that sounds).

Right now if we are selecting a team and we had Cox and Bruce on the list, Cox would be preferred. Guaranteed.

Mason Cox and Josh Bruce AFL Stats Comparison

Mason Cox and Josh Bruce AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Comparison right now. Cox doesn't have Naughton taking the main defender either.

Bruce even at his worst is better than Cox. Cox shows up once every two years. Shocking call.

 

[Dogsman16]

Bruce even at his worst is better than Cox. Cox shows up once every two years. Shocking call.

The stats suggest otherwise.

I think it's fair to say Cox v Bruce, Cox is the better ruck option. I don't think there is any disputing that. Purely by his height he can get his hands to the ball where not many else can.

Multiple Goals
Cox: 4/9 games
Bruce 2/16 games

Contested marks
Cox: 12th in the Comp ave
Bruce: 71st in the comp ave

Hitouts
Cox: 3.9 (considering how little game time he gets in the middle due to grundy)
Bruce: 1.1

2015-2019 I'm picking Bruce everyday of the week. 2020 its Mason Cox.

Basically it boils down to this. If you wanted a more physical presence player with better defensive pressure then going by stats you pick Bruce. But if you wanted a stronger contested marking threat with better support for English you pick Cox.

 

[bresker]

Cox is antithetic to Bev's philosophy. I couldn't imagine a player he's less likely to play in the team. If the commentators are praising a bounce and a run or a decent handball, he'll spend the rest of his career in the VFL if he comes to us.

 

[BEaston]

As much as I love Bruce the bloke, Cox in this team would force Bruce out of the team. Or he'd have to find a defensive position (unlikely as that sounds).

Right now if we are selecting a team and we had Cox and Bruce on the list, Cox would be preferred. Guaranteed.

Mason Cox and Josh Bruce AFL Stats Comparison

Mason Cox and Josh Bruce AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Comparison right now. Cox doesn't have Naughton taking the main defender either.

You might be right, at this moment. Looking at those stats though, it's pretty close and that's with Bruce having the worst form of his career. Even if Bruce just kicks straighter it's a better overall output than Cox IMO. Let alone all the dropped marks, etc.

Yes Cox would add a bit in terms of tapwork but I'd rather get Bruce back to his best, it's 10x better than Cox up forward and I think Bruce's aggression at ground level in the ruck is actually pretty good also. Much better than Cox's.

If we brought in a legit #1 ruck, then it allows English to play utility which means we could still have Bruce and Naughton up forward with English there to stretch defences at times, but he can also float back when required also. To me, that really adds to the team and is a structure worth giving up decent assets for. To give up assets for a mediocre improvement at best for these C-graders, not worth it IMO.

 

[Dogsman16]

You might be right, at this moment. Looking at those stats though, it's pretty close and that's with Bruce having the worst form of his career. Even if Bruce just kicks straighter it's a better output than Cox. Let alone all the dropped marks, etc.

Yes Cox would add a bit in terms of tapwork but I'd rather get Bruce back to his best, it's 10x better than Cox up forward and I think Bruce's aggression at ground level in the ruck is actually pretty good also. Much better than Cox's.

If we brought in a legit #1 ruck, then it allows English to play utility which means we could still have Bruce and Naughton up forward with English there to stretch defences at times, but he can also float back when required also. To me, that really adds to the team and is a structure worth giving up decent assets for. To give up assets for a mediocre improvement at best for these C-graders, not worth it IMO.

I would love a number 1 ruck. I just don't see one that is obtainable. In an ideal world English plays the utility. Hence why i mention Cox because he could take 50% of the ruck load. Think he would be involved more if he wasn't pigeonholed into being the deep forward (purely because Coll have an A grade ruck).

I love Bruce so I'm super hopeful he gets back to his best. He's taken 5 contested marks in the past 2 games so there are signs.

 

[Philthy1]

I would love a number 1 ruck. I just don't see one that is obtainable. In an ideal world English plays the utility. Hence why i mention Cox because he could take 50% of the ruck load. Think he would be involved more if he wasn't pigeonholed into being the deep forward (purely because Coll have an A grade ruck).

I love Bruce so I'm super hopeful he gets back to his best. He's taken 5 contested marks in the past 2 games so there are signs.

Why do you think it's not obtainable?

 

[Mofra]

We definitely need a back up ruck, Trengove is on the way out and Sweet can't rest forward yet (judging by club comments).

The fact we even considered Zac Smith last year shows we are looking at ruck depth.

 

[murphy's twin]

I'm very much now in the camp of just taking a deep breath....


I'm confident that both English and Bruce will be sufficient next year to take the ruck role.

A long pre-season put into English improving his upper body strength, along with Bruce losing weight will do us wonders.

English isn't that far off from giving consistent output...... He is nearly up to 50 games now too.....

 

[Dogsman16]

Why do you think it's not obtainable?

Soldo going down probably means Nankervis is unavailable.
Sinclair is cooked. He's 31 and done.
Preuss is probably a chance but is he a bit too lumbering?

I don't know of any other first ruck names that we could get. Rhys Stanley might be an ok fit.

 

[murphy's twin]

We definitely need a back up ruck, Trengove is on the way out and Sweet can't rest forward yet (judging by club comments).

The fact we even considered Zac Smith last year shows we are looking at ruck depth.

I don't agree. Sweet is fine as that back-up, i get the feeling that he is almost ready, like with the others another pre-season will do him wonders.

 

[Boristown]

I'm very much now in the camp of just taking a deep breath....


I'm confident that both English and Bruce will be sufficient next year to take the ruck role.

A long pre-season put into English improving his upper body strength, along with Bruce losing weight will do us wonders.

English isn't that far off from giving consistent output...... He is nearly up to 50 games now too.....

What if English twists his ankle round 1 and is out for 8 weeks? It's been a minor miracle he's held up so well this year, imo.