Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[redmania]

My thoughts…

Let’s not sh*t the bed over 45 mins of bad footy. Let’s not forget we led Melbourne by 19 points at that point!

KPDs. Are we stocked?
1. We all know Keath is a star. He’s probably got 2-3 of peak performance left given age and time in footy.
2. Gardner’s rate of improvement has been incredible. I think he’s already gone past Cordy, and is well on his way to being a #1 back. Might take 2 years, but very promising.
3. Schache. Yeah he did the job in the PF on Allir, but with a great ability to intercept mark and awesome kicking, he could be our third tall. Needs a little time down back - but i reckon that’s his place…
4. Darcy. From all accounts a real talent, and worthy of an early pick. Will take a couple of years, but that’s ok looking above.

Rucks.
We need three and we’re thin! I consider English a 3rd KPF.
1. Martin. Yes 1 more year is ok - but can’t llay him solo (ala Richmond in rd 7) cos his not up for it.
2. Sweet. Showed signs, but Bevo clearly not confident yet.
3. ???. We desperately need someone here.

KPFs.
1. Naughton. Gun. Kicked almost 50 while still learning the craft. Generational talent.
2. JUH. Very promising and will be a handful next year with a full preseason under his belt.
3. English. Perfect as a third tall (great forward nous as 3rd tall) while 20% ruck.
4. Bruce. Will be back 2nd half of year maybe.

Small forwards.
This is also where we are thin!
Cody is a short mid-forward, Hannan is a mid-forward, so is Wallis. Anthony Scott is also more a mid-forward/mid rotation.
1. We have McNeil as our only genuine small goal sneak - need to bolster.
2. Cavarra, but not really in contention.

We need a back, a ruck and a small forward.

 

[scooter600x]

I haven’t and I’m not blaming English for the onslaught but I blame him for I believe it was the last goal of the third. The one where he wins the hitout and taps it back over his head. Just gifted them momentum of the ball going forward. Showed a lack of game sense for that moment of the game and the situation.

Except that didn't happen either.

Melbourne's other three goals that quarter was the Bailey Smith fumble that led to Viney (?) hitting Fritch on the lead, the Petracca dribbler and the Brayshaw set shot following the Caleb Daniel shank.

English does hit one over his head that goes to Melbourne but the kick is a scrubber that just goes straight out of bounds again.

 

[footscray1973]

I'm not convinced Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

is the droid we're looking for. Let him keep hanging out with his Melbourne-supporting mate Jordan Roughead

23

Jordan Roughead

Age

33

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

132.4

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.1

2star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.1

2star

MG

82.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

4.4

2star

HB

8.0

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

.

He'll enjoy Lipinski's passes at least, while Pies bottom out as Pendlebury and Sidebottom near the end of their careers.

 

[Munnez]

What do you mean? We’re only trading out Macrae, Vanders, English, Dunkley, Lipinski and bringing in Ladhams, Darcy Macpherson, Jarrod Cameron, Tim O’Brien, Luke Breust, John Ceglar, Ben King and a couple of other random blokes I’ve not heard of


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Welcome to the silly season

 

[Munnez]

Ben brown has kicked 60 goals plus in 3 seasons. Not as if he’s had a sh*t career.
also has the luxury of playing in a team where it’s midfield can basically just charge forward because of how much trust they have in Gawn/Jackson. Meanwhile we get opened up like a can of sardines if we get spanked in the ruck. Add in that we have an extra mid around the ball (meaning that we play one less forward) it makes life tough for our tall forwards.

Not as if Brown had May superglued to him and lever standing in front of him either. He took his marks on shorter opponents in Wood and Cordy.

It was a selection error to play Cordy in the GF we couldn't apply enough pressure to play to his strengths. Gardener was a much better match up for old sideshow.
Just hope we can manage a charmed injury run like Melbourne had, makes a huge difference to put the same blokes on the paddock every weekend

 

[Munnez]

Genuine question but what tall forward actually carved us up this year? Mckay maybe? honestly i feel the medium sized forwards like Fritsch were the ones we always struggled with

Only Spud Wright did but practically no fit defenders left and again our midfield got smacked

 

[perro_loco]

Tom Boyd just turned 26, Fletcher Roberts is 28.

2016 versions of those 2 would be rather handy right now!

Bring back Tom Boyd I say!!!!

 

[perro_loco]

Imagine if Laitham Vandermeer doesn't really exist, and it's been Pat Lipinski in disguise?!

Youse are all confused. It is not Vandermeer, it is Vandermir. One is dutch, the other Ukranian ffs. One plays for Ajax, the other for Dynamo Kiev.

 

[ossie_21]

It was a selection error to play Cordy in the GF we couldn't apply enough pressure to play to his strengths. Gardener was a much better match up for old sideshow.
Just hope we can manage a charmed injury run like Melbourne had, makes a huge difference to put the same blokes on the paddock every weekend

Not really sure how much it’s been mentioned, but I’m sure Keath pinged his hammy again in the first quarter. He was moving very gingerly and then went off for treatment before coming back, but he didn’t look right. On paper he’d be a good match up, but I think we knew he couldn’t keep up with him on leads etc so just played on whoever was deepest

edit: this is why Cordy was on him so much and not a good matchup lol

 

[perro_loco]

Ben brown has kicked 60 goals plus in 3 seasons. Not as if he’s had a sh*t career.
also has the luxury of playing in a team where it’s midfield can basically just charge forward because of how much trust they have in Gawn/Jackson. Meanwhile we get opened up like a can of sardines if we get spanked in the ruck. Add in that we have an extra mid around the ball (meaning that we play one less forward) it makes life tough for our tall forwards.

Not as if Brown had May superglued to him and lever standing in front of him either. He took his marks on shorter opponents in Wood and Cordy.

For years we have had a short and slow backline with very poor rucks. That is our problem. We need a tall backman to help Keath and a ruckman who is not as old and injury prone as Martin. That was totally exposed in the GF, added to the fact that our mids run out of gas in the middle of the third quarter and the coaches reacted either too late or did not. Just my humble opinion.

 

[hoianbulldog]

He kicked one goal for the season that wasn't a set shot. Stop his marking and you stop him. Simple.
The goal he got from a non mark funnily enough was in the grand final.
If you think one goal for the year from another avenue than a mark or free kick is acceptable. Good luck to you. I don't.
It's not to say he couldn't learn other ways to kick goals but at this stage he can't.

They wrote a song about Jason Dunstall....Run out, take a mark, turn around and kick a goal.

He would get a game in 2021 footy

 

[hoianbulldog]

If you don't try to improve areas that we are obviously deficient then you are setting yourself up for failure.
You keep thinking what you want. The game against Port was hardly the norm, the Grand Final is more the norm.
I agree he is a good player but he is frustrating to me in that he is not a good forward or a good ruck. He is a ruck/utility.
I don't mind if we keep him and he proves me wrong but in my opinion he is not the answer going forward.

2025 will happen before you know it.

 

[glenashley]

No, no we can’t. You need to listen to 3 weeks of ex-Essendon players suggesting ways the dogs should trade their players for a 5c piece and how stupid our list management team is for not doing so and allowing them to then brag about what a genius dodo-bird is. The AFL media is to Essendon what SkyNews is to the Liberal Party. It’s ******* atrocious

At least sky News is a private entity. The ABC gives greens and Labor plenty of push on all the tax payers dime....

Sorry you brought it up in the trade board...

 

[Here we go dogs]

Personally I'd be very happy with Clurey + Lynch. From what I've seen, Clurey is good one on one, which would free up Keath a bit. Lynch is a better ruck than English and not terrible up forward.

Best part is neither would cost much but potentially have big impact

I get the feeling Clurey and Keath partnership could be really affective.

I just don’t know enough about Lynch to pass comment. Collingwood supporters seem to give him big wraps though. I guess consideration of lynch would come down to how well sweet is rated internally long term.

 

[yebiga]

Look what lost us that game were those easy clearances out of the centre square with Petracca , Oliver charging into F50. No defence can stop that.
What caused it? Did our rovers: Macrae, Liber, Bont screw up - or did Gawn just bully our Ruck - or a combination.

We need to analyse that inside and out. Whilst watching it live, it felt that Gawn was able to direct where the ball was going and Petracca and Oliver just in the right spot and exploding out of there.

If Gawn was the decisive factor, then we need to find some man mountain - who cares whether he can even play the game. It's not like Martin does much around the ground anyway. We just need a monster man, 200+CM and who can Squat 250KGs. He just jumps leans, pushes and falls on Gawn at every opportunity. - he does need to know or do much more. In fact the less he knows the better. If the ball even come to him he just punches it away - does not even bother to kick it. When he tackles, he crushes ribs. We don't need a footballer we need brute.

Seems to me other than that - we had them half way thru the third. Either way, Bev finally can't ignore the impact of centre square clearances and the role ruckman play. FMD

 

[weltschmerz]

Look what lost us that game were those easy clearances out of the centre square with Petracca , Oliver charging into F50. No defence can stop that.
What caused it? Did our rovers: Macrae, Liber, Bont screw up - or did Gawn just bully our Ruck - or a combination.

We need to analyse that inside and out. Whilst watching it live, it felt that Gawn was able to direct where the ball was going and Petracca and Oliver just in the right spot and exploding out of there.

If Gawn was the decisive factor, then we need to find some man mountain - who cares whether he can even play the game. It's not like Martin does much around the ground anyway. We just need a monster man, 200+CM and who can Squat 250KGs. He just jumps leans, pushes and falls on Gawn at every opportunity. - he does need to know or do much more. In fact the less he knows the better. If the ball even come to him he just punches it away - does not even bother to kick it. When he tackles, he crushes ribs. We don't need a footballer we need brute.

Seems to me other than that - we had them half way thru the third. Either way, Bev finally can't ignore the impact of centre square clearances and the role ruckman play. FMD

Sweet has brute.

 

[Here we go dogs]

Look what lost us that game were those easy clearances out of the centre square with Petracca , Oliver charging into F50. No defence can stop that.
What caused it? Did our rovers: Macrae, Liber, Bont screw up - or did Gawn just bully our Ruck - or a combination.

We need to analyse that inside and out. Whilst watching it live, it felt that Gawn was able to direct where the ball was going and Petracca and Oliver just in the right spot and exploding out of there.

If Gawn was the decisive factor, then we need to find some man mountain - who cares whether he can even play the game. It's not like Martin does much around the ground anyway. We just need a monster man, 200+CM and who can Squat 250KGs. He just jumps leans, pushes and falls on Gawn at every opportunity. - he does need to know or do much more. In fact the less he knows the better. If the ball even come to him he just punches it away - does not even bother to kick it. When he tackles, he crushes ribs. We don't need a footballer we need brute.

Seems to me other than that - we had them half way thru the third. Either way, Bev finally can't ignore the impact of centre square clearances and the role ruckman play. FMD

We actually did okay when Gawn was in the ruck. It was Jackson in the centre square when they piled on those goals. We just couldn’t keep up with Jackson’s athleticism. Our game plan would’ve been based around Gawn which we actually did, we were caught off guard by how good Jackson actually was.

Our mids were probably the even bigger problem than rucks.

 

[TMoney22]

Can we at least get one player on our list that is built like a brick sheethouse and has aggression to match. please

 

[Deadly Darcy]

At least sky News is a private entity. The ABC gives greens and Labor plenty of push on all the tax payers dime....

Sorry you brought it up in the trade board...

As a centralist I periodically listen to ABC, 3AW, Sky and Radio National. I’m not being political. I’m making the point that blatantly biased journalism tastes like a s**t-sundae no matter what flavoured topping you want to serve it with.

I find it risable that no one at AfL house has ever addressed the Essendon bias that Hutchys motley bunch of has-been players dribble each year. It makes my ears bleed to hear and my eyes ache to read. F’ing w***ers.

 

[Chalky White]

They wrote a song about Jason Dunstall....Run out, take a mark, turn around and kick a goal.

He would get a game in 2021 footy

He kicked straight and he kicked 100s, he also had Brereton who was chipping in with 50-60 every year plus Paul Hudson, Peter Curran, Paul Dear, Gary Buckenara, Ken Judge all kicking goals as well.

 

[Chalky White]

It’s simple to stop him marking too. Very funny

Based one game he is sh*t.


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Who said he was 5hit. I said he has no forward craft. He is a one-trick pony that if he cannot take a mark has no second string to his game at this stage. Maybe he can learn that, I don't know. But it certainly doesn't come naturally to him.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

For years, the bulldogs had good rucks (Darcy, Wynd, Purser, Minson) and small forwards (Brown, Johnno, Robbins, Gia, Eagle) but always struggled with tall forwards.
Now we have the opposite problem where we have poor rucks and small forwards but are going quite well in the tall forward area.
Though if Cody played smarter and stopped flying for the ball and Vanders gets some fitness and consistency, they could be very good.

 

[Doggies_13]

Except that didn't happen either.

Melbourne's other three goals that quarter was the Bailey Smith fumble that led to Viney (?) hitting Fritch on the lead, the Petracca dribbler and the Brayshaw set shot following the Caleb Daniel shank.

English does hit one over his head that goes to Melbourne but the kick is a scrubber that just goes straight out of bounds again.

Never said it directly went to Melbourne but from where I sat on Saturday it looked like he tapped one back over his head during that burst. Now I haven’t and I’m not going to rewatch the game ever but that’s what I remember seeing

 

[Lex22]

O'Brien is more athletic version of Schache imo

Schache a much smarter player with a better kick, O’Brien more an athlete that lacks some footy IQ.

Two very different players.

 

[Chops]

Who said he was 5hit. I said he has no forward craft. He is a one-trick pony that if he cannot take a mark has no second string to his game at this stage. Maybe he can learn that, I don't know. But it certainly doesn't come naturally to him.

If he has no forward craft he might as well be s**t.
You really have no idea here


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