Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[lachy]

We did very well last year for a side that didn’t pose much threat of generating counter attacks from intercept marks in defence. If O’Brien can replace say Cordy and beef up that aspect of our defence it’ll definitely make us better.

Agree particularly if Khamis develops and possibly even Schache in the back end

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Here we go dogs]

I am okay with not picking up a best 22 ruck so long as sweet is actually played.

Another ruckman would be good for an insurance policy if injuries hit though.

 

[Dogs Rule]

It’s honestly not the point that sure we have a ******* great list, probably best in the league, and we made the granny. It’s about giving ourselves the best opportunity to do it again next year. This doesn’t give us that opportunity. I think we’ll get more out of Timmy than we did this year he’ll be 25 next year, and I think Sweet will offer a bit, I completely agree with that. Doesn’t mean I’m okay with going in with literally just them and Martin. I don’t think we’re that stupid there’s gotta be someone else to follow, hell I’d take BTC

I agree, getting another ruck is about giving ourselves the BEST chance. We don't have to do things the hard way, why hamstring ourselves and make it harder than it already is. Be bold, go and get McEvoy or another good quality ruck.

 

[Wetdog]

I agree, getting another ruck is about giving ourselves the BEST chance. We don't have to do things the hard way, why hamstring ourselves and make it harder than it already is. Be bold, go and get McEvoy or another good quality ruck.

To be bold and secure a good quality ruck we need to give something meaningful up. The board isn’t prepared to give Darcy up, which means picks are out of the question, so what players do we trade for a good quality ruck?

 

[doggies ftw]

Apart from adding O'Brien to our defence, where is our list going to improve?

Naughty is 21, Weightman 19, Jamarra 18. English despite what people say still has huge upside. Our forward line has immense improvement in it. A full year out of Dunks, Baz has a couple more gears to go, even Bont I reckon has another gear in him. Majority of our list is still coming into its prime. More natural improvement in our list than any other finalist. Dales second year in defence, Williams and Daniel improve every year. The likes of Garcia, West, Richards would already be best 22 at most clubs and will be coming in ready to go.

Yeah I’m concerned about the ruck but to say there’s no improvement in this side is crazy

 

[Dogs Rule]

To be bold and secure a good quality ruck we need to give something meaningful up. The board isn’t prepared to give Darcy up, which means picks are out of the question, so what players do we trade for a good quality ruck?

Future first and a player if needed. The last two years we've got a number 1 and arguably number 2 pick (3 at worst) dirt cheap, so have a throw at the stumps.

 

[footscray1973]

I would expect half a dozen changes to our gf team minimum.

Richards, juh, West, croz, O'Brien, VDM, gardener from the seniors who didn't play.

Some junior growth. Sweet, Bendendo, maybe a game or 2 from Darcy.....

Weightman, Smith, Naughton etc to take another leap....

But who are the half dozen (minimum!) who go out?!

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I see both sides of the ruck argument. Personally I think the sky is falling routine is a bit much, but I share concerns about our ruck stocks if we don't add another.

Does anybody seriously believe that Martin can get through a whole season? 17 games in two seasons, 35 years old. His nine this year is realistically somewhat of an overestimate of how many games he was fit for, because he clearly wasn't near 100% for half of those.

It then leaves us with either English leading us again, while lacking a genuine second option and not having Bruce there to offset the loss in the ruck by making up for it in offence, or Sweet, who was not preferred this season and had an extremely dire form drop mid-way through the year.

English or Sweet could take a step forward next year, but as a premiership contender, do we really want our stocks in a position that we've been hurt for in years to depend on these guys improving?

The, "Our ruck stocks have or will cost us a premiership," rhetoric is in my opinion a hyperbolic strawman, as is the "Do people seriously believe Ceglar will fix the problem?" stuff. I would feel a lot more confident about our ability to compete week-in, week-out, though, if there was somebody we could just plug and play and know what we're going to get from them, without destroying our structure, when Martin inevitably pulls up sore 12 weeks out of the year.

That said - let's see what happens. Still several days left and we've been involved in last-minute deals without much noise before. Also DFA, mature rookies, supplemental selection period etc. Let's just see what happens.

 

[doggies ftw]

To be bold and secure a good quality ruck we need to give something meaningful up. The board isn’t prepared to give Darcy up, which means picks are out of the question, so what players do we trade for a good quality ruck?

We have a full suite of picks next year, we don’t have to give Darcy up.

 

[Mutt]

Where’s the abuse?

Telling other Bulldogs supporters to pull their heads out of their arses for a start.

 

[Bald]

Telling other Bulldogs supporters to pull their heads out of their arses for a start.

That’s not abuse. That’s a common phrase.

 

[Mutt]

Sure Mutt, this is a place where people should be able to post their opinions without copping too much flack.

However in Lachy's defence there has been a substantial number of posters who would seem to have been metaphorically wearing their arse cheeks like ear flaps, such has been the reaction to our GF loss and the common belief that it was all the fault of our ruck division. A belief I don't share by the way.

The issue for me Proff is that most people on here can express their views about football, players, or the club without belittling other posters or directing derision or abuse to other Bulldogs supporters for the opinions they hold. To single out those who express a particular view and tell them they are idiots or they should pull their heads out of their arses is playing the man and is a form of intimidation or bullying.

We should not be deriding other supporters on here because of their opinions. We should all be able to have a robust conversation and disagree on issues without resorting to denigrating those who hold opposing views. Attack the opinion....not the posters who hold that opinion.

 

[Mutt]

That’s not abuse. That’s a common phrase.

It is singling out a group who hold a particular opinion and attacking them for that view. By all means strongly disagree with whatever opinions you want but don't label those in the other camp as needing to pull their heads out of their arse. I see that as abuse. You may differ.

Note I didn't tell you to pull your head out of your arse. Had I done so it would have been abuse on my part...wouldn't you agree?

 

[Bald]

It is singling out a group who hold a particular opinion and attacking them for that view. By all means strongly disagree with whatever opinions you want but don't label those in the other camp as needing to pull their heads out of their arse. I see that as abuse. You may differ.

Note I didn't tell you to pull your head out of your arse. Had I done so it would have been abuse on my part...wouldn't you agree?

Unbelievable reach Mutt. Let’s agree to disagree.

 

[Wetdog]

Future first and a player if needed. The last two years we've got a number 1 and arguably number 2 pick (3 at worst) dirt cheap, so have a throw at the stumps.

We have a full suite of picks next year, we don’t have to give Darcy up.

Would you trade our 2022 first round pick for Ben McEvoy?

I don’t think I would. He is 33 in July.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Would you trade our 2022 first round pick for Ben McEvoy?

I don’t think I would. He is 33 in July.

No way. Only if he was packaged with a younger gun

 

[Munnez]

Agree particularly if Khamis develops and possibly even Schache in the back end

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Would love to see Schache develop as the drop off intercept defender in the Lever style as he is so good with ball in hand. Could really kick start meaningful drive from the back half with intercept marks

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Would you trade our 2022 first round pick for Ben McEvoy?

I don’t think I would. He is 33 in July.

Future second and third for Ceglar and Wingard + hawks pick up some salary of Ceglar.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Would you trade our 2022 first round pick for Ben McEvoy?

I don’t think I would. He is 33 in July.

Not for McEvoy, just making the point that now is the time to strike. We made a Grand Final, so we should be looking to go all out. Take a risk because if it pays off we might have a flag next year.

 

[Proffessor]

This probably isn’t the right thread for this sort of post but it might be useful contextually.

I really don’t think our list make up was the difference on GF day.
Sure Melbourne have some strengths where we have weaknesses, but the reverse is also true,
We had an off day, a few guys didn’t handle the big occassion too well, and we seemed to adjust our game a little too much to contain their strengths rather than keeping faith in our own. Plus it was a tough road to get there and everyone else apart from our supporters including the umpires seemingly wanted the Dees to win, all leading to us hitting the wall late in the game.

if we play that game again on a different day, we could very easily win with exactly the same team, just a slightly different approach. Over reaction in terms of list management is therefore likely to have a more detrimental impact than under reaction.

I would argue that a lack of self belief was our biggest failing in the grand final and too strong a list management reaction could exacerbate that problem rather than fix it.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Maybe all our business was done before Hawthorn publicly announced all over 26s are available? I wouldn’t pay more than a future 2nd tops for McEvoy though.

 

[goodcop badcop]

It is singling out a group who hold a particular opinion and attacking them for that view. By all means strongly disagree with whatever opinions you want but don't label those in the other camp as needing to pull their heads out of their arse. I see that as abuse. You may differ.

Note I didn't tell you to pull your head out of your arse. Had I done so it would have been abuse on my part...wouldn't you agree?

My goodness we live in a soft world.

 

[bresker]

Maybe all our business was done before Hawthorn publicly announced all over 26s are available? I wouldn’t pay more than a future 2nd tops for McEvoy though.

Nah Mitchell was sending out pics of Wingard, McEvoy etc with their tops off flexing in front of mirrors to all the other coaches saying “want some action ? Xxx for draft pix ONLY” weeks ago

 

[hutchy31]

Like many things in life, it’s probably never as good as some think or as bad as some others think. I’m on record as thinking English doesn’t have it in him to be a consistent ruck, and our ruck division is a glaring weakness in a time when you can least afford it. But it didn’t stop us being the second best team across the year so I understand those who don’t think it’s such a problem.

I also agree with Prof’s post above, in that we got sub-standard games from players we would typically rely upon (e.g. Macrae, Libba, Williams) and virtually nothing from others (Weightman, Hannan) yet were three goals up in the third. Then we got poor coaching and leadership and couldn’t stop the run of goals from the centre and it was game over. Does a journeyman ruck fix that? Maybe not. But they’d have been valuable during the season and particularly in the last three home and away games, which arguably affected our run to the GF and our fitness when we got there.

There is no need for a list management overreaction, but imo to think the ruck will be fine with Martin/English/Sweet is looking at it through some rose-tinted spectacles. From that perspective I completely understand the nervousness that it doesn’t look like we’ll bring at least one AFL standard ruck in during this period.

But who knows what will happen in the next few days, so fingers crossed there is something yet to play out.

 

[Barking Mad]

The club has been hamstrung over 2 drafts now.
JUH Cost is a fair chunk but needed to be taken as has a huge upside and Bruce at that point only maybe 3 years left. Hadn’t had a huge 1st year either.
Darcy 204cm (at last count) who could be a kpd, a swap with Naughty and be a kpf or even a future ruck. You don’t pass this up.
Treloar Fell into our lap at not a lot of coin. Talent hard to pass up but surely wasn’t on the shopping list.
We then have the like of Dunks, Bont, Jacko, Libba, Smith, Treloar (came in during this period) who can all play mid. All are considered as untouchable. Libba seen as the closest to finishing but the past 2 years have shown that there is plenty left in the cat.
We have excitement machines in Cody and Naughty down forward, Hannan (came in during period) who was becoming a favourite during finals until the GF, JUH coming in.
Down back Keath, Williams, Daniel, Dale (wasn’t prior to this).
ive left a few regulars out of the above but just highlighting that to get a ruckman of high caliber hasn’t been easy for Sammy given cap restraints and our glut who can play mid. Something has to give. Do we lose a Hunter to free up a wing for say Treloar or Smith? Do we give up day a Dunks and leave inside to a Smith and Libba?Do we say goodbye to a Libba (washing my mouth out with soap after hitting send)? Do we take Bont out and play him as a KPF and trade out a JUH.
Maybe trade Caleb as could be easier to replace a hybrid half back?
There are plenty of other scenarios but the gist is that to be able afford a quality ruck, assuming Sweet nor English come on or Darcy doesn’t develop into one isn’t as easy as it appears. We’d need not only picks but a heap of cap room. Cap room will certainly not be our friend next year.
we may well of tried picking up an aging ruck like Martin again to cover development of the 3 we have but is anyone interested? Play on low coin for a short contract with no guarantee of a flag or for that matter a game.
maaaaan I’d hate to be a list manager