Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Mojorisin]

If lions trade picks
They would aim for Richmond's pick as they will finish lower than us

Carlton will also be pick hunting.

 

[goodcop badcop]

It all depends on whether Lobbs deal was as reported at the time 3 years or whether as was reported a week or so ago it is actually 4. If it was the former then I dont understand the angst that it gets in here. He is relatively cheap insurance that allowed Darcy to get beyond his first couple of seasons where he was invariably going to have growing and injury issues. If it's the latter then it doesn't look so good, but thats only because Darcy is a true unicorn who is coming quicker than a virgin in a knock shop. Bruce was cooked when Lobb arrived and we desperately need ruck coverage and the alternative was Sweet. A guy that neither the club nor I rate.

I dont think the timing mattered much. When a player elects to leave and they nominate a club. They have all of the leverage.

This is a valid point, but all of thsee guys are mature bodied role players from within the games system who can step in as needed. However their real role is to fill out the list and to take minimum wage so as to pay the stars, as it is to play games.

We can only carry so many developing kids. Who unless they are from the elite end of the draft more often than not have inherent flaws in the game and take multiples off years to be match ready. If they ever make it that far.

A common refrain across all clubs.

I dont see a problem with giving the last spot on the list as a means of attracting long shots to the club.

They're as likely to make it as some random 3/4/5th rounder or rookie selection.

See you previous point.

I get the sense that people in here are cooling on Sanders a bit. It makes no sense at all.

Much will depend on how he and Croft develop over time as to whether this was a wise move or not. It's way too early to judge just yet. It was a bold move for a club as risk averse as ours.

Im ok with it.

Welcome to my thoughts of 2 years ago.


GWS have the inbuilt incentive to trade out quality players for quality picks.

Its how the AFL set them up and it how they've been structured since their inception.

Geelong are just the exemplar when it comes to a slickly run outfit.

We could learn a great deal about things from them. But we just feel a little small and amateurish in comparison.

Again the reasoning for the Lobb trade was a sound one.

We are currently witnessing the cost of this.

I dont have an issue with Power or his list management. What concerns me, is how we haven't foreseen the drop off in some of the core players on our list over the past couple of years. We are currently witnessing what happens when we have an imbalance in the list because the cost of getting so many quality talls has coincided with the drop off of a number of mids that are still at the core our once deep midfield. Its forced us to fill holes with kids and journeymen in the midfield and wings. Something you just cannot get away with against good let alone middling teams in this competition. The injury of Smith has not helped in this regard and if he decides to leave then we are in a world of hurt.

Its going to take us a couple of seasons and a s**t load of recruiting/development luck to address this.

Would changing the coach get more out of such an unbalanced list that relies as heavily on a few aging stars in the midfield as ours?

Honestly. I don't know. I have my doubts.

And this is the exact issue I have with the Lobb deal. We've invested a huge amount into our talls, Naughton, Jamarra and Darcy were all top 10 picks. Investing another two 2nd rounders for Lobb further added to our list imbalance and it wasn't necessary. Darcy kicked 3 goals and had 6 shots on goal in his last 2 games of 2022. He was ready for AFL and had barely played any footy. I agree we needed another backup option in case of a Darcy injury, but why couldn't we look at a cheaper option? Maybe a Frampton/Burgess type who were only worth 3rd rounders. That was all that was necessary.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

If we are worried about losing a raft of players for 2nds and 3rds, we'd probably be best trading them for future picks next year for all our father-sons.

Helps us get 2nds instead of 3rds.

Helps us with all the points we'll need.

And frees us up to trade next year's 1st into this year, as we'd likely lose it to father-son bids

(If our father-sons are tracking well at the end of the season)

 

[Lex22]

As usual you've beat me to it. Good to see some of the things I've been told today is the same/similar to things you've relayed.

Lobb is someone I think will stay but also has the potential to get more games elsewhere. He is also the one that will be the easiest to trade as he doesn't have a huge price tag over his head.

Daniel is as good as gone from what I'm told, as you say both SA clubs have interest however I'm told Crows are most likely.

Macrea is a very complex case and something I'm sure the media will grab onto shortly, especially if he is out of the team again. Clubs are interested but the length of the deal is a big sticking point, if he was traded out the dogs likely to only receive a third unless a significant amount of the contract was covered.

Information on Smith I got was similar but although I heard the original offer of 2 years has doubled to 4 the money per year hasn't changed as it was already similar to that on offer from rivals.

English is the same as yours. His manager was asking for 1.2+ over 6 years, but rivals offers ended up similar including sharing Ruck duties (Xerri/ROB) so no point in moving.

Jamarra the same.

Busslinger has put contract talks on hold until the end of the year with blessings from the club in hopes that he will be able to negotiate a better deal with some decent form under his belt. Eagles have offered him 5 years on 500k plus large incentives for games played and B&F finishes.

The club have are assessing where they are at in relation to the review over the bye round as was organised prior to the start of the season but won't 'jump to conclusions' from the small sample size we have seen.

Alot of the players the club had outlined as potential targets are now re-signed or are in the process of re-signing hence why they've upped offers to the current out of contract players. There are still 2-3 bigger name targets on the board but otherwise it'll just be role players.

Five years for Busslinger at 500k a year?

 

[dogwatch]

Ok I’ve called it in my own mind.. time for a mini reset.

1. Keep Bev, but in a Coaching director role.
2. Recruit Cox as Senior Coach
3. Allow Cox free rein to pick his assistant coaches (but keep Pratt).
4. Offload Daniel, Macrae and Lobb for late seconds, early thirds with focus on maximising points and Free up $2m in cap space
5. Use our 2nd, and picks/points from 4. Above to swap for brisbanes 1st (points for Ashcroft FS
6. Trade Smith for pick around 10
Take Brisbane 1st and 10 to draft for best 2 mids
7. Add Hayward and Florent as FA with cap space from 4.
8. Win premiership 2025 and beyond.

This ain’t so hard.

You're either a project manager or a consultant, right? (or maybe marketing )

 

[adogsfan5]

Tom Mitchell was a premiership player literally last year.

Edit: Don't mean this to be a crack FWIW, if Tom can adjust his style of play, surely Macrae can as well.

Also noticed he’s struggling!

 

[Bald]

Also noticed he’s struggling!

Yeah for sure. But still plays a part was more my point.

 

[54Bulldog16]

You're either a project manager or a consultant, right? (or maybe marketing )

lol no, can’t stand them blokes . Funnily enough in business risk management.

 

[LittleG]

marketing )

 

[glenashley]

If we are worried about losing a raft of players for 2nds and 3rds, we'd probably be best trading them for future picks next year for all our father-sons.

Helps us get 2nds instead of 3rds.

Helps us with all the points we'll need.

And frees us up to trade next year's 1st into this year, as we'd likely lose it to father-son bids

(If our father-sons are tracking well at the end of the season)

Great point.

Yeh, can see us trading our 2025 1st rounder into this year and trading later picks from 2024 into next year for points.

 

[Doggies_13]

Our biggest issue this off season is we currently have:

Our Second Rounder
Gold Coasts Third Rounder

That’s it a second rounder and a third rounder nothing else. Puts us in a difficult position to address our needs in an off season and leaving yourself those assets only is the sign of a team competing not a team in evolution

 

[VitalDread]

Carlton will also be pick hunting.

Be interesting to see if AFL changes the bidding system this year just to mess over blues

 

[VitalDread]

Don't forget

With the new CBA coming in
500k is about to become a league avg for B Grade players

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Supposedly, Sam Draper got on a podcast and openly explained that if the Dogs don’t move on Bevo we’ll have players requesting a trade out.

Whilst I believe the sentiment is real no chance an oppo player says that publicly, anyone know what podcast his on???

 

[VitalDread]

Supposedly, Sam Draper got on a podcast and openly explained that if the Dogs don’t move on Bevo we’ll have players requesting a trade out.

Whilst I believe the sentiment is real no chance an oppo player says that publicly, anyone know what podcast his on???

200+ Club with Charlie Comben
Its really funny podcast, they take the piss a lot


It was the same information that a poster put here a few weeks back

 

[Yesterday Dog]

Daniel has a complete run of our team for his career and leaves as soon as he gets challenged. Macrae is less certain to leave, but not an entirely dissimilar situation if he does.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

200+ Club with Charlie Comben
Its really funny podcast, they take the piss a lot


It was the same information that a poster put here a few weeks back

I know enough about how AFL clubs are run to know that if that is being spoken publicly amongst playing groups then things are worse than we know.

Buckle up buckaroos, interesting times ahead

 

[adogsfan5]

Supposedly, Sam Draper got on a podcast and openly explained that if the Dogs don’t move on Bevo we’ll have players requesting a trade out.

Whilst I believe the sentiment is real no chance an oppo player says that publicly, anyone know what podcast his on???

Jesus that’s grim if true. Last podcast is 24/4/24 - is it from that one?

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Jesus that’s grim if true. Last podcast is 24/4/24 - is it from that one?

Not sure but I’ll be giving it a listen at lunch time. Just going off what others have said.

 

[Unorth]

May as well move him on now if it’s so common knowledge that other players are laughing about it on podcasts.

Already been said here that other teams managers/players knew.

 

[Chalky White]

I'm not really sure this line of thinking is agreed upon by the majority of people that work at AFL clubs, or those that have handed out contracts to rucks consistently from different perpectives over the last few years.

I agree in the most literal sense that by virtue of the rules of the game leading to 80 stoppages per game or whatever that it's helpful to have someone tall to contest the ruck contest. But the value-add of being good at that and being below-average on that, on the proviso that that player is already 2+ metres tall, is overstated. The game is fundamentally different to when Gary Dempsey was running around. This is proven by the fact that the terminology of centreman, ruck-rover, rover etc. is different to what it is today and is no longer used. It makes no sense to make the distinction between roving and ruck-roving or whatever.

I would also argue that a skillful ruck, one good below their knees, or being a great user of the football, provided they meet the minimum standars of being tall and reasonably physical enough in the ruck that their opposition isn't getting 20 hitouts to advantage a game or whatever (which English meets, given that he's 30th of 46 players who consistently attended centre bounces last year in hitout win rate), is important. Outside of the stoppage, they are one of the 18 players out on the field, and can contribute to driving the ball forward, winning possession, like any other player can. I think it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. We can see visually e.g. how English pushed forward harder than Darcy to get inside 50 and convert three kicks inside 50 to three uncontested marks/marks on lead and three shots at goal. It was English's possession-winning ability by covering the ground that directly converted a inside 50 to a shot on goal, something that we obviously would want from every inside 50 but does not always happen.

Sure, the skill sets of Tim are that he's good below his knees and quite athletic. However with salary cap pressure can a "competitive" ruckman be nearly as valuable for a pittance of the financial burden?
Tim is a good player, soft but good. He's not a million dollar per year player though.
This is the position where Moneyball strategy is most obvious. Rhys Stanley is pretty average, but has been a mainstay of a good Geelong team for years. On low coin.
Big O at Brisbane, Darcy Cameron, Ivan Soldo, Nank, Witt's. None of them would command what Tim is reported to be getting offered.
I think we could get a handy ruck for a third of Tim's price.

 

[Golden_6]

May as well move him on now if it’s so common knowledge that other players are laughing about it on podcasts.

Already been said here that other teams managers/players knew.

If it really is true, it baffles me that he’s still coaching. As soon as segments of the playing group are lost by the coach (even if a large amount still are fine with him), then it’s a deathwish and it’s already over.

This 2024 season feels like a last ditch desperate attempt by the club & Bevo to reignite some magic but it’s failing dismally.

 

[ttomred17]

Fronk's mail from late last year might just be being validated by an opposition player on a podcast 6 months later.

 

[Sentinel]

Supposedly, Sam Draper got on a podcast and openly explained that if the Dogs don’t move on Bevo we’ll have players requesting a trade out.

Whilst I believe the sentiment is real no chance an oppo player says that publicly, anyone know what podcast his on???

From the 24 minute mark of episode 60 (April 16 ep).

Draper mentions it specifically at ~26.30.

 

[Doggies_13]

Supposedly, Sam Draper got on a podcast and openly explained that if the Dogs don’t move on Bevo we’ll have players requesting a trade out.

Whilst I believe the sentiment is real no chance an oppo player says that publicly, anyone know what podcast his on???

Episode 60 around the 27 minute mark.

They talk about are the dogs cooked, this is post Essendon game and then Draper says he has a big call on this, “if Bevo’s still there, there will be some players requesting trades”

They asked if it’s just disgruntled players or bridges burnt, seemed to suggest bridges burnt.

They asked if it was inside word or Drapers Magic ball and he said can’t reveal with a laugh.

Names then get thrown around Macrae, Dale, Daniel so obvious ones.