Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Foxman98]

Let's also not forget Freo had no faith in Sam Collins (much like some on these board RE Buss) and dumped him after 2 years and 14 games played. And now he is one of the best KPD in the game.

Learn from history. Don't make the same mistakes. Better we hold on to him a bit longer and he doesnt work out rather than dumping him onto another club for free and he becomes unstoppable.

He looked fine at AFL level regardless

 

[Foxman98]

Jedd led the team for intercepts against Freo and for whatever reason was subbed half way through the 3rd quarter he also only lost 2 1 on 1s for his seven odd game stint

He is no star yet but he is also no Kieran Collins

Kieran Collins

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

4.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

0.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

3star

MG

116.0

2star

No current season stats available

D

4.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

0.0

1star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

116.0

2star

 

[VitalDread]

RYAN

View attachment 2437327

GARDNER

VFL team of the year premiership player Ryan Gardner

Thank you

 

[Mofra]

Sam Frost is a big culture addition
Extremely liked player throughout the league

Would be happy to have him as a stop gap defender

I'd rather bring in Frost than bring in nobody.
Buss is a couple of pre-seasons away from being a regular. JoD needs time. Lobb may be entering 'niggles' territory.

 

[Philthy1]

I'd rather bring in Frost than bring in nobody.
Buss is a couple of pre-seasons away from being a regular. JoD needs time. Lobb may be entering 'niggles' territory.

Frost is not even Jones level who we just delisted.

Just because he is available doesn’t mean we should.

 

[Mofra]

Frost is not even Jones level who we just delisted.

Just because he is available doesn’t mean we should.

Disagree.
Frost plays ahead of Busslinger late in our season. The kid just isn't ready.
And we have very little depth.

We need a mature body for at least 12 months to give JoD & Busslinger more time.
If Lobb misses games we're in even more trouble.

 

[Struggle]

Frost is not even Jones level who we just delisted.

Just because he is available doesn’t mean we should.

Current Frost is far ahead of current Jones.

No one is saying he should be recruited on big money and play round 1. But as a DFA on minimum salary its better than going into the year with zero depth down back

 

[Philthy1]

Disagree.
Frost plays ahead of Busslinger late in our season. The kid just isn't ready.
And we have very little depth.

We need a mature body for at least 12 months to give JoD & Busslinger more time.
If Lobb misses games we're in even more trouble.

Well, I disagree with you disagreeing. Frost was never anywhere near Jones level at any stage and was an object of ridicule by Hawks fans.

If we need someone that desperately, then get Serong. At least he has upside.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Jedd led the team for intercepts against Freo and for whatever reason was subbed half way through the 3rd quarter he also only lost 2 1 on 1s for his seven odd game stint

He is no star yet but he is also no Kieran Collins

It's still too early to be concerned about him. I would have liked to see more from him through three seasons but I'm happy to give him a lot more time and a lot more games. Even if playing bad (which Buss certainly wasn't), I just like seeing snippets of AFL attributes from young players. JOD in his first games as a defender showed intercept marking promise and decent athleticism that gave me belief. I'm not sure I've seen anything from Buss yet that gets me overly confident that there is an AFL player there. Another season, another 15 games, I'm sure there will be some signs and we can re-evaluate from there

I'm more concerned about the lack of faith the coaching staff seems to have in him. As you mentioned had a really good debut, then was made sub, then dropped and fell behind Coffield and Gardner in the queue inexplicably, then they went back to Jones before deciding Buss was the last viable option. Then was the one they decided to sub off when he did finally get chances late in the season. The coaching staff generally give guys a real heavy run of games when they think a player has something, since they haven't given Buss that luxury makes me question things

 

[Smiley Boy]

Jedd led the team for intercepts against Freo and for whatever reason was subbed half way through the 3rd quarter he also only lost 2 1 on 1s for his seven odd game stint

He is no star yet but he is also no Kieran Collins

Busslinger isn’t the solution to our problems I don’t see it at all with him

 

[lachy]

It's still too early to be concerned about him. I would have liked to see more from him through three seasons but I'm happy to give him a lot more time and a lot more games. Even if playing bad (which Buss certainly wasn't), I just like seeing snippets of AFL attributes from young players. JOD in his first games as a defender showed intercept marking promise and decent athleticism that gave me belief. I'm not sure I've seen anything from Buss yet that gets me overly confident that there is an AFL player there. Another season, another 15 games, I'm sure there will be some signs and we can re-evaluate from there

I'm more concerned about the lack of faith the coaching staff seems to have in him. As you mentioned had a really good debut, then was made sub, then dropped and fell behind Coffield and Gardner in the queue inexplicably, then they went back to Jones before deciding Buss was the last viable option. Then was the one they decided to sub off when he did finally get chances late in the season. The coaching staff generally give guys a real heavy run of games when they think a player has something, since they haven't given Buss that luxury makes me question things

I said in the pre season when Jones got injired we should have played Buss. It was pre season yet we chose not to.

He was dropped after playing well and then we played Gards ahead of him.

Clearly they rated him ahead of the returning from injury Jones then inexplicably subbed him in the Freo game where again he was doing well.

He needs to improve no doubt, but for that to happen the coaches must have faith in him.

 

[lachy]

Busslinger isn’t the solution to our problems I don’t see it at all with him

Did you see it in Sam Collins when he was at Freo starting his career?

 

[Dogsman16]

If Wilkie and Butts are both off the table then you move heaven and earth to get Butters.

We owe it to Bont/Libba/Treloar etc to have a serious crack.

And you move Bont or Richards to defence to accomodate Butters in the middle.

We won’t make adjustments in the coaching box to get it done. It must be via personnel.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Jedd led the team for intercepts against Freo and for whatever reason was subbed half way through the 3rd quarter he also only lost 2 1 on 1s for his seven odd game stint

He is no star yet but he is also no Kieran Collins

I’m a big Buss fan. I definitely think he will become a star FB in time & am confident that he will improve massively next year. We just need to pump the games into him.

 

[Mutt]

Did you see it in Sam Collins when he was at Freo starting his career?

Did you?

For every player that struggles and then turns it around there are many others who don't.

It's a fair call to be unconvinced about Buss.

 

[Claythesmiths]

Did you see it in Sam Collins when he was at Freo starting his career?

99% of the time the guys that get delisted after 10 games don’t come back to be AA-level AFL players.

I don’t think the argument that Collins came good late is really an endorsement for Busslinger.

 

[lachy]

Did you?

Nope, but what does that even mean.

Cleary the recruiting team, who have a reasonable success rate did and do it for a living, see it. Cleary the coaches see it with an extension of contract.

And nearly everyone in the AFL understands that unless someone is not showing signs of improvement they need 4 to 5 years in the system to see if they will make it or not.

Smiley Boy is one of my favourite posters with the information he posts. On this occasion disagree with the premise of literally posting a vague statement with zero evidence so I was just asking are his feelings always right

 

[MaxiBont]

I think Buss gets hard done by because he wasn’t the saviour of our backline.

He performed well enough for me to have faith in him. He didn’t set the world on fire but I thought he was average to solid.

His speed is one of his main concerns and even still he rarely got beat on the lead.

 

[lachy]

99% of the time the guys that get delisted after 10 games don’t come back to be AA-level AFL players.

I don’t think the argument that Collins came good late is really an endorsement for Busslinger.

Where did I say it was??? Just pointing out again, don't jusdge young players particularly KPP'S to early in their careers

 

[Philthy1]

Can we please ban anyone who suggests Sam Frost

Sam Frost is a poor version of Ryan Gardner. FMD.

 

[St 07]

Frost got pushed out because Hawthorn did what we can't do and recruited star players to bolster an already good defense. If we get desperate, get him in

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Busslinger isn’t the solution to our problems I don’t see it at all with him

That may well be true. But what's the realistic alternative and how would we achieve it?

Unless we land Wilkie. The only alternatives are a sideways move with a fringe or state league player. And to expect that calibre of player to miraculously make the jump into becoming a KPD much better than what we have in hand seems pretty remote. Or we takes deep breath. Send one of Naughton or Darcy back. In time we may develop Croft as that guy, but it'd be absurd to send a guy who's played 2 games and expect him to be any better than what we have.

For mine, what needs to be done is a complete coaching rethink that doesn't leave a weak defensive half exposed by a team wide inability to apply or deal with sustained pressure across the ground. We could have Harris Andrews in the side and as good as he is. It'd only paper over cracks that are becoming more apparent each year.

Ryan Gardner.

 

[Mutt]

Nope, but what does that even mean.

Cleary the recruiting team, who have a reasonable success rate did and do it for a living, see it. Cleary the coaches see it with an extension of contract.

And nearly everyone in the AFL understands that unless someone is not showing signs of improvement they need 4 to 5 years in the system to see if they will make it or not.

Smiley Boy is one of my favourite posters with the information he posts. On this occasion disagree with the premise of literally posting a vague statement with zero evidence so I was just asking are his feelings always right

You asked the question....

You may not agree with Smiley Boy and others, but it is not outrageous to fail to see Buss as a lock for the backline in the future.

 

[DueWest]

Frost got pushed out because Hawthorn did what we can't do and recruited star players to bolster an already good defense. If we get desperate, get him in

But it won’t improve us so No

 

[MaxiBont]

We have so much money to throw around, it has to work on someone half decent