Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

I’m still concerned at how we somehow wrangle Butters + 2 NGA and 2 FS kids without completely nuking three years of picks.

The Tassie draft concessions allow them an easy pathway to poaching players. It feels a near certainty that we lose a quality player, so we’ll end up with a 1st regardless.

 

[Ash1337]

If Sammy can some how snare all the above, Im good for the next few years with just 3rd an 4th rounders.
I want Sammy to swing for the fences, We have the salary cap for
The Bont deserves another premmie.

Also if Port bottom out, they won't want our crappy 1st and 2nd rounders in the tassie compromised drafts, picks that may be in the 20's.
A top 2 or 3 compensation pick, plus their F/S is a great kick start to their rebuild.

I think they'll finish 14th. If they take the compo they get 5 & 6. If they match a bid on Cochrane at 2 with both picks they get pick 11 back. The other option is if there's no draft changes this season they can trade both into next season for the most likely to be at the bottom. Like 5 & 6 to Bombers for 2027 & 2028 firsts, 2026 2nd Likely going to be pick 20-23 for points and 2027 pick 2/4/6/8, 2028 pick 2-4/6. They have currently picks on ladder position 3 21, 26 (tied to carlton), 39 meaning they only need pick 22 or better with 21 26 & 39 to match a bid on pick 2 under the current system. A force trade means on the current ladder with the dogs picks 16 in 2026, 23 in 2027 and 21 in 2028 for a butters trade. So yeah taking the compo might be better even if it means trading them into the future to avoid using them on cochrane.

If the changes come in they need picks 11 & 13 to match the bid at 2. Or if they finish where they are currently they get they can just use 3 & 4 and get back pick 5 So they essentially get to pick the next player anyways. I doubt there would be a scenario where he is not bid on at pick 2 unless he's not considered top 5 in the draft.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I haven't seen Korn so indignant since this.

Thought he was going to cry this day.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I’m still concerned at how we somehow wrangle Butters + 2 NGA and 2 FS kids without completely nuking three years of picks.

If Sammy can some how snare all the above, Im good for the next few years with just 3rd an 4th rounders.
I want Sammy to swing for the fences, We have the salary cap for
The Bont deserves another premmie.

Also if Port bottom out, they won't want our crappy 1st and 2nd rounders in the tassie compromised drafts, picks that may be in the 20's.
A top 2 or 3 compensation pick, plus their F/S is a great kick start to their rebuild.

We have so much talented youth already, and if we can pull off that draft/trade we do not need any picks for 3 years

 

[mal68au]

From a list management perspective, can anyone tell me why we are training Croft and Will Darcy as key forwards. Even if Will develops into a quality forward he still won't get a game at any point in the medium future.

I'd argue we don't really need Croft up forward at the moment

 

[Philthy1]

From a list management perspective, can anyone tell me why we are training Croft and Will Darcy as key forwards. Even if Will develops into a quality forward he still won't get a game at any point in the medium future.

I'd argue we don't really need Croft up forward at the moment

Who said we are training him up as a key forward? He played a practice game as a forward. So what? There was talk as we drafted him as a key back. So what?

 

[dogwatch]

Who said we are training him up as a key forward? He played a practice game as a forward. So what? There was talk as we drafted him as a key back. So what?

Given our obvious need to acquire or develop tall defenders I think it's a pretty reasonable question. Especially when we used an SSP pick on another big forward.

Will kicked four goals in half a practice game last week so it looks like he was playing as a forward, at least up to that point. He didn't kick any in the second half so maybe he was moved to defence. Who knows?

And that's the problem.

Other than the ones who have debuted (Sellwood, Jaques and Lewis) we haven't had much info on how the youngsters are tracking this pre-season. I know it's early days but it'd be nice for the fans if the club could tell us a bit about the youngsters and where they see them playing this year.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

From a list management perspective, can anyone tell me why we are training Croft and Will Darcy as key forwards. Even if Will develops into a quality forward he still won't get a game at any point in the medium future.

I'd argue we don't really need Croft up forward at the moment

I think it is more that these guys do have key defender potential, but it's very difficult to be an effective key defender when you are a tall rake. Much more realistic to play as a tall forward until they fill out. It's still very valuable experience for a key defender to get, and it enables them to contribute stronger to the team in their early years.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

From a list management perspective, can anyone tell me why we are training Croft and Will Darcy as key forwards. Even if Will develops into a quality forward he still won't get a game at any point in the medium future.

I'd argue we don't really need Croft up forward at the moment

Because the coaching panel is committed to a philosophy of playing 3 mobile talls.

As for Will Darcy, without looking at Footscray's team from last week. And with Lewis playing in teh AFL they may have been errrr....short of tall forwards. Much the same reasoning that saw Khamis spend more time up forward at Footscray then he did in defence. When its clear that they had him earmarked as defended at AFL level.

Im not sure that neither Croft nor Darcy can be pigeonholed this early in their careers.

'Orses for courses.

 

[BrisDog]

Given our obvious need to acquire or develop tall defenders I think it's a pretty reasonable question. Especially when we used an SSP pick on another big forward.

Will kicked four goals in half a practice game last week so it looks like he was playing as a forward, at least up to that point. He didn't kick any in the second half so maybe he was moved to defence. Who knows?

And that's the problem.

Other than the ones who have debuted (Sellwood, Jaques and Lewis) we haven't had much info on how the youngsters are tracking this pre-season. I know it's early days but it'd be nice for the fans if the club could tell us a bit about the youngsters and where they see them playing this year.

Wouldn’t it be a good idea to have the VFL season proper running alongside of AFL season to provide the perspective above and potential selection answers that AFL teams and their supporters require?

 

[glenashley]

My ideal system would have compensation picks scrapped entirely, but it would require clubs to be more ruthless with the PSD and the AFLPA rolling over which they won't.

I don't mind 3NPs approach but might even tilt further along the lines of:

• If poaching from a team below you then you lose your next 2 "natural picks"
• If poaching from a team above you then don't lose anything. This promotes faster equalisation.
• You obviously need some structure for loss of picks to shift a year(s) ahead if already traded out

In this structure when Brisbane poaches Oscar Allen the Eagles get pick 2, and Brisbane forfeits their 1R and 2R picks - good luck then matching Annable particularly with new rules, and then basically impossible to get Draper also. When West Coast poaches Starcevich back they don't have any cost because its from a team above them. This shits all over Brisbane paying nothing for Allen + Draper and the AFL doing some other dodgy priority picks to get them a end of 1R for Starcevich.

But as you point out, the AFL pushing for a system that drives equalisation runs directly against the AFLPA pushing for freedom of movement at the expense of equalisation, so nothing meaningful will change.

My only thought is that there's probably more average players exercising free agency then elite players.

I don't think the receiving team should have to give up so much for average players.

Having said that, your proposal may encourage more trades in those situations?

 

[Philthy1]

Given our obvious need to acquire or develop tall defenders I think it's a pretty reasonable question. Especially when we used an SSP pick on another big forward.

Will kicked four goals in half a practice game last week so it looks like he was playing as a forward, at least up to that point. He didn't kick any in the second half so maybe he was moved to defence. Who knows?

And that's the problem.

Other than the ones who have debuted (Sellwood, Jaques and Lewis) we haven't had much info on how the youngsters are tracking this pre-season. I know it's early days but it'd be nice for the fans if the club could tell us a bit about the youngsters and where they see them playing this year.

The kid is 18 and has been at the club 5 Mins. Does anyone really know what his true position is?

Just chill a bit. There is no problem here.

We also drafted a key back in Emmett.

 

[Struggle]

Don't agree with Bevo here. Reckon it'd shut out a lot of the journalists out of the game which is a good thing.

Yep, the fact that we're 1 round into the season and the Monday night footy shows are leading off with Daicos might go to Tassie when out of contract in 4 years time is embarrassing

 

[VitalDread]

From a list management perspective, can anyone tell me why we are training Croft and Will Darcy as key forwards. Even if Will develops into a quality forward he still won't get a game at any point in the medium future.

I'd argue we don't really need Croft up forward at the moment

If we kick more goals than the Oppo
We never have to train a defender

 

[Anja_Nees]

I wouldn’t count our chickens with Butters. Too much water to go under the bridge before the trade period.

If we re-sign Sanders we’ll still be in good shape without Butters, as long as we recruit a good KPD with plenty of years left in the tank.

On board with this.

He’s a great player and would add a lot, but it’s not like our midfield is our weakness and you have to be very careful selling the farm for one player.

I think with some of the deals being bandied about nowadays (term, picks and dollars) there will be some serious buyers remorse for some clubs in coming years.

 

[maddog37]

Wouldn’t it be a good idea to have the VFL season proper running alongside of AFL season to provide the perspective above and potential selection answers that AFL teams and their supporters require?

It’s the Afl. Good ideas are like hens teeth.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Yep, the fact that we're 1 round into the season and the Monday night footy shows are leading off with Daicos might go to Tassie when out of contract in 4 years time is embarrassing

We're a point now where we've reached saturation when it comes to coverage of the game. Not because there are too many voices or there is a lot to say or be analysed about the game that is a fresh take. Indeed it's always been a cavalcade of suckholes following each other over the opinion cliff like lemmings.

And its not really because of the need to pump out outrage inducing clickbait.

The surfeit of nightly shows covering the game is simply a backdoor through which the pox of betting agencies can get their branding and products onto our screens. And if stories Ive heard about 13 year olds having betting accounts are to be believed then they've achieved the goal. Without the betting company sponsorship there is no way in an age of their inevitable demise that the broadcasters could cover the costs of the nightly charade and they wouldn't bother.

 

[bresker]

It's also because hardly anyone under 60 watches terrestrial TV any more . Half the adverts are for cruise ships or adult nappies. I imagine men watch a lot less than women, since the endless reality shows are aimed at the latter. Hence footy footy footy footy.

 

[VitalDread]

This feels us with offering Picks if Port match

 

[doggie dog]

We have so much talented youth already, and if we can pull off that draft/trade we do not need any picks for 3 years

agree.
Half our team is under 100 games, we are only behind West coke and the tiggers in this statistic.
We could use our 3rd/4th rounders to pick up mature age draft talent (Selwood/Davo) or retread opposition clubs players (Baker/Bramble).
That's 4 current best 22 players that are also low cost to our salary cap.

 

[Dazb86]

On board with this.

He’s a great player and would add a lot, but it’s not like our midfield is our weakness and you have to be very careful selling the farm for one player.

I think with some of the deals being bandied about nowadays (term, picks and dollars) there will be some serious buyers remorse for some clubs in coming years.

Yeah I'd agree we can't be too reckless with picks and the contract offered. The flipside of that is we are probably losing Treloar and Libba in the next couple years and they will be needing replacement.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Libbaaaa]

agree.
Half our team is under 100 games, we are only behind West coke and the tiggers in this statistic.
We could use our 3rd/4th rounders to pick up mature age draft talent (Selwood/Davo) or retread opposition clubs players (Baker/Bramble).
That's 4 current best 22 players that are also low cost to our salary cap.

They spoke about it in length on Gettable but you look at the team lining up tonight and how we built it:

Sellwood - mid season draft
Baker - rookie
Bramble - rookie
Jaques - pick 29
Buku - rookie
O'Donnell - rookie
Davidson - pick 51
Williams - pick 48
Freijah - pick 45
Dale - pick 45
Lobb - traded pick 30 (Hugh Davies) and pick 29 (Tew Jiath)
Kennedy - bit more complicated but basically pick 38! (Harry O'Farrell)
Budarick - pick 37

Dare I say that is Geel-esque and puts us in the position of being able to sell a lot this off-season to bring in more ready made prime players.

 

[ossie_21]

Other than the ones who have debuted (Sellwood, Jaques and Lewis) we haven't had much info on how the youngsters are tracking this pre-season. I know it's early days but it'd be nice for the fans if the club could tell us a bit about the youngsters and where they see them playing this year.

I do agree, but in fairness the coaches in the past have done reviews after VFL games with a short summary of how the AFL listed players went.

But it would be good for a pre-season summary too about how they have travelled. Did any of them train the house down, burn the track up etc etc

 

[BigFloppa]

I'm kinda hoping we don't get Butters. Now before you say "here we go, Scrag is trolling again," first of all I'm not Scrag. I'm BigFloppa. And secondly, I'm not trolling. Here's why:

1. I don't like the idea of any player on our list being paid more than The Bont. He's the best player in the league and he's been loyal to us. It's not even like a "Joel Selwood is the captain so he gets paid the most." Bont is literally the best player in the comp.

2. Having 2 mil tied up in one player is just too risky. One injury and a massive chunk of your salary cap is no longer giving you anything on field.

3. Long deals on big pay are too risky. We got very lucky that Tom Boyd chose to retire and leave a lot of money on the table.

4. Our midfield is good. Even post-Bont we will have Richards, Freijah and Sanders leading it.

As far as I'm concerned, whoever wins the Butters bidding war will end up overpaying. Likely for a player who would only be the fourth best on our list behind Bont, Richards and Darcy.

 

[bobs head soup]

They spoke about it in length on Gettable but you look at the team lining up tonight and how we built it:

Sellwood - mid season draft
Baker - rookie
Bramble - rookie
Jaques - pick 29
Buku - rookie
O'Donnell - rookie
Davidson - pick 51
Williams - pick 48
Freijah - pick 45
Dale - pick 45
Lobb - traded pick 30 (Hugh Davies) and pick 29 (Tew Jiath)
Kennedy - bit more complicated but basically pick 38! (Harry O'Farrell)
Budarick - pick 37

Dare I say that is Geel-esque and puts us in the position of being able to sell a lot this off-season to bring in more ready made prime players.

All true. When you consider how compromised the next couple of drafts are, we have built ourselves a very strong position.