Trades/draft picks

[bm29]

I realise there are a few decent tall forwards that are a chance to get down to Geelong this year, but I ask the question, is that the best strategy - to give up our first round draft pick (even though Thompson says he won't, he'll probably have to to get someone decent).

My thinking is that we have the foundations to build a premiership side. Realistically, we could make the bottom half of the finals in 2004 and hopefully make the top half in 2005.

I just wonder if someone who is seemingly at their peak now, is still going to be in two years time when we will be a serious threat.

Perhaps a well-developed young kid may be a better answer.

Thoughts?

 

[BigCat1]

We need to keep pick 7. Troy Chaplin will fit into our side beautifully.

 

[Seb]

Waiting for the annual smokey, myself.

 

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by bm29
I just wonder if someone who is seemingly at their peak now, is still going to be in two years time when we will be a serious threat.

Perhaps a well-developed young kid may be a better answer.

Trent Croad is still only in his early 20's isn't he??

 

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by BigCat1
We need to keep pick 7. Troy Chaplin will fit into our side beautifully.

What type of player is Chaplin, and how tall is he??

 

[Seb]

Originally posted by ScouseCat
What type of player is Chaplin, and how tall is he??

A strong KPP with a lot of talent, supposedly at least (Haven't seen him play myself)

Around the 193CM mark, give or take 3 - 4 cm

 

[Seb]

Just checked him up on a few of the Phantom draft threads:

Taken from Falconer02's Phantom Draft predictions:

4:Bulldogs-Troy Chaplin
Big player around 195cm and 93kg, What the bulldogs need strong marking big forward or back.

He has us down for Raphael Clarke at pick 7 (brother of Xavier). However it would be a tad too fortuitous for us to have a chance at selecting him. And anyway, he seems to be rather heavily committed to the Saints, why would you want a player who doesn't want to play for you? He has clearly stated that he is interested in joining his brother, chances are you'd lose him after a year or so of service.

Still waiting for that smokey... Any predictions there?

 

[catattack]

Re: Re: Trades/draft picks

Originally posted by ScouseCat
Trent Croad is still only in his early 20's isn't he??

He's 23 now, 24 in March next year.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Rawlings is obviously the clubs number one priority. I can't see us getting him unless we are prepared to give up pick 7.
I don't mind the Bartel for David Haynes swap but they would have to add a draft pick as well .
Peter Street and Cameron Mooney should be traded.

 

[bm29]

We need to keep pick 7. Troy Chaplin will fit into our side beautifully.

Sounds a likely type but with 6 picks before us, we're likely to miss him. I hope he's still around though.

Let's not forget that we unearthed a couple of promising players in McCarthy and Playfair. They were impressive in the latter half of the season when given a run. Obviously they are both still raw, but definitely worth persisting with.

I hope we don't do anything silly and give away a player of the calibre (or potential) of a Bartel or Spriggs (or pick number 7 for that matter) only to end up with a player who isn't a long term answer for us.

I'm excited about seeing these kids again next year already!

 

[jim boy]

Originally posted by holdencaulfield
Peter Street and Cameron Mooney should be traded.

Peter Street, thanks to his two brownlow votes in the last match, is one player we should be able to get a good return on. There just aren't many players of his physical attributes around. Mooney we would be lucky to get a chupa chup.

 

[Falconer02]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Just checked him up on a few of the Phantom draft threads:

Taken from Falconer02's Phantom Draft predictions:



He has us down for Raphael Clarke at pick 7 (brother of Xavier). However it would be a tad too fortuitous for us to have a chance at selecting him. And anyway, he seems to be rather heavily committed to the Saints, why would you want a player who doesn't want to play for you? He has clearly stated that he is interested in joining his brother, chances are you'd lose him after a year or so of service.

Still waiting for that smokey... Any predictions there?

If he wants to play for his brother he can come to us, use a bit of persuasion.
If we did not pick him I would want either
Brock Mclean, Ryley Dunn,Farren Ray, Colin Sylvia out of Midfielders
KPP would be Chaplin, Gayfer,Watts and maybe 2nd round Kent or Cosgriff or Spencer.

 

[Seb]

Originally posted by Falconer02
If he wants to play for his brother he can come to us, use a bit of persuasion.
If we did not pick him I would want either
Brock Mclean, Ryley Dunn,Farren Ray, Colin Sylvia out of Midfielders
KPP would be Chaplin, Gayfer,Watts and maybe 2nd round Kent or Cosgriff or Spencer.

There's no way Geelong will undergo techniques of persuasion to lure Clarke down the highway. Thompson just won't even contemplate such a thing.

Anyway, I'm starting to wonder - if we recruit a middle-aged KPP (See Rawlings) then perhaps we wouldn't have to waste our draft pick on some tall timber? I mean, we already have plenty when you think about it. Graham, Kingsley, Mooney, Chambers, King, Street, Playfair, McCarthy, Gardiner (perhaps Johnson), Lonergan, Mackie, Grgic, Harley, (Scarlo?) Finnin, Smith and King are all over 188 cm (I think )

So, hypothetically speaking, if we managed to involve ourselves in trade which saw Rawlings head down the highway, we'd be an incredibly top-heavy side. The question beckons, do we really need to waste such a high draft pick on a quality tall? Perhaps a classy small (easier found than a tall) would suffice?

We already have the young, developing forward line (and to those imposters, being young and inexperienced is not a respectable excuse for losing; however, we don't really have much choice right now). The likes of McCarthy, Mackie, Lonergan, Playfair and Johnson have all shown that they do have some ability. Why not snare a Rawlings/Whitnall and try to bring on the younger players? If the rumours are true, and Kingsley and Mooney are leaving the Cattery, then it gives us a chance to give those blokes (McCarthy, Playfair etc...) some experience. And who knows, Mr Jade Rawlings might be a teacher of sorts, could help out the younger guys with their game....Don't think we'll leave him in charge of McCarthy's kicking, though

I almost forgot! You could also look at it from a different perspective: We could trade our first-round pick for Rawlings. I'm not really happy trading the pick, but if it means Bartel will stay at Geelong... then I could certainly warm to such a trade. It's really a question of Thompson's forsight and ability to select the right path.... The options seem to be (Already outlined this sorta, just thought I'd clarify it for everybody):

Option 1: Trade our first-round draft pick in the hope of securing a quality forward in Rawlings. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Carlton cannot take a first-round in exchange for a player (Whitnall for example).

Option 2: Give up some sheer quality (Bartel) accompanied by a middle teer player, Spriggs or Rahilly in the hope of luring Whitnall from the blues. The same could be said of Rawlings; however the sudden copious amount of Hawks supporters will come and eat me alive in regards to their team balance if I suggest such a trade. The thing is, the Bartel and Spriggs/Rahilly deal is still a credible option for the Hawks.

Option 3: Take this season with a grain of salt, accept the slap to the face and just work with what you have. Thompson seemed pretty confident last pre-season that we had the makings of a Premiership team, and to be honest with you, I was in agreement with him. With another year under the belts of McCarthy and Playfair etc... who knows what might happen. We'd also be able to recruit some young talent in the draft...works for me.

Out of the options listed above, they all appeal to me in some way. I'd love to secure a quality forward, but not at the expense of Bartel (Option 2) and I'd equally not like to give up our first round pick....but I could certainly warm to it providing the right trade arose (Option 1). And yes, I could even throw caution into the wind and back our young blokes for another treacherous season...They'll get some experience and who knows, that tiny bit of confidence could make all the difference...

 

[BigCat1]

Originally posted by Shaitan
I mean, we already have plenty when you think about it. Graham, Kingsley, Mooney, Chambers, King, Street, Playfair, McCarthy, Gardiner (perhaps Johnson), Lonergan, Mackie, Grgic, Harley, (Scarlo?) Finnin, Smith and King are all over 188 cm

The question beckons, do we really need to waste such a high draft pick on a quality tall? Perhaps a classy small (easier found than a tall) would suffice?

There is a difference, Chaplin is a quality player. I see him as our next CHB in about 3 yrs. Have a look at that list and you will see many of those players are battlers, long shots, or re-cycled players. Most are forwards as well.

Graham - Ok but is a vet now and only has 3 seasons at best left
Kingsley - Re-cycled. Would trade but should be kept b/c won't get what he is actually worth. Has kicked 90 goals in the last two yrs
Mooney- Recycled. Trade to North, Carl or WCE who are interested
Chambers - Off Rookie. Trys hard but bottom line is he cant win a hitout so we will never be a ruckman (McKee)
King - Gun
Street - Traded
Playfair - Draft Longshot. Jury is still out
McCarty- Draft Longshot out of Ammo's. Has some deficiencies but some talent. Will be handy but probably not a star.
Gardnier- mid pick but has talent but seems to lack intencity. Make or break for him next year. Should model is game on Tarrant
Lonegan - mid pick. Very skinny. Havent seen enough of him.
Mackie - Early pick. To small and skinny for KPP. Will be a utility
Harley - Recycled. Been super. Could play HBF on 3rd tall.
Grigic - Recycled. Won't play seniors again.
Smith - Rookie list. Only saw a couple of games and he did nothing. Two grabbed marks and poor kick. Might be harsh but I don't think he's the answer.
Scarlet - Gun
Foster - Delisted
Finnin - Recycled. Needs to make next year his year or it might be Goodbye. 3 yrs in the system for 0 games would spell trouble.

We seem to have gone down the quantity not quality path. How many of these guys are going to be standout players? How many will win us flags? We need to get some quality into our talls, then back up with developing players. A Whitnall and a Chaplin would allow us to do this. Put a broom through some of them this year. I reckon we could realistically get rid of 5 of these players this year.

 

[Unwritten_Law]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Waiting for the annual smokey, myself.

Come on down Billy.

While I'm at it, Cameron Thurley worth a spot on the rookie list?

 

[Seb]

Fair comments BigCat: Thing is, would a draftee get a spot in our side among these talls?

I'll review the bigmen as well...

Graham - Useless IMO. Should be sent to America, they can pay his contract.

Kingsley - Has the potential to be a 60 - 70 goal forward, but perhaps not with Geelong. Tends to be a tad too selfish and we all love his hand flapping.

Mooney - I'll go out on a limb here, Mooney has enormous potential, and was the driving force behind our winning streak last year. When Mooney guns it - Geelong guns it. If only Blighty could come back and figure him out

Chambers - A bit stiff on this guy, BigCat. Tries his damn hardest and looks like a respectable back up ruckmen for Kingy.

King - Gun (Agreed.)

Street - Will not necessarily be traded, the right deal has to arise (second round pick) otherwise he'll be stuck on our list for another trying year in the reserves.

Playfair - A real talent - Give him a 'fair go', Thommo.

McCarty- The potential is there, certainly has taken his sweet time to get a regular position, just hope he can continue on from where he left off.


Gardnier- I really like Charlie. Kind of like McCarthy and Playfair, if you don't give them some game time, how do they develop?

Lonegan - Very skinny, won't be ready for awhile.

Mackie - A very skillful and prolific ball winner - should make his debut on the senior stage next year. He'll play around 3 - 5 games, I'd say. Depends on Bartel's positioning.

Harley - Harley and Scarlett form our impenetrable defence, all we need is Solomon to add to the ranks, IMO. Can you imagine a defence comprising of Solo, Rooke, Scarlett, Harley, Sando and Milburn. A tad small, but tough as all hell. Would quickly surpass the Lions for the best defence in the league.

Grigic - Recycled. Won't play seniors again. Agreed.

Smith - A tad harsh, BigCat. You post on Cats Claw, so no doubt you have been subjected to the mastermind - Bobcat. He cops a fair bit of attention there, and in all honesty, Smith had a respectable end to the season. Didn't make a senior debut, but showed a bit toward the end of the season. Should be kept for another season at least.

Scarlet - Thread title from CC "Thy name is God" Enough said.

Foster - Delisted (Agreed)

Finnin - Everybody shafts this kid. I think he has something special. You have to remember, he has had 3 years in the system, but his first hardly counted as he was a year younger than the norm, and was playing far away from home. Settled in nicely to our VFL defence, and I'm expecting big things from him

Cheers.

 

[BigCat1]

Ok so lets cut it down. Both agree Foster is gone and Girgic won't play seniors again. He may last one more year. Smith should be retained as a rookie but not put on the main list. Graham is a OK but also doesn't have long left. Kingsley and Mooney are battlers and one won't be here next year. I'd probably say Mooney.
I agree with you on Finnin he seems to have all the required tools, However he must break into the seniors next year. For his own confidence and development. We both think Street should be traded, whether he brings a 2nd rd pick or 3rd rd is irrelevent in my view. I stand by my comments on Chambers. If he can't win a hit out then his time in the AFL will be limited. I love the kid's intencity and desire but he will be quickly over taken by the like of Blake and Playfair.

Gardnier, Playfair, Lonegan, and McCarthy will all stay and develop. It's just a question of how much. None where top 20 draft picks. The %'s say it's very doubtful all will make it.

So in answer to your question - In two years time when Pick 7 and Blake are ready to make their marks they will most definately get a game. Graham, Foster, Girgic, Street, one of Mooney/Kingsley, and probably two of our youngsters won't be here.

IMO we must get some quality into our talls. Chaplin is quality and can help stiffen up the back half. Blake would go top 10 if he wasn't F/S. If we can get a quality tall like Rawlings or Whitnall then all of a sudden the quality is in the squad. The club MUST keep pick 7 at all costs in my view. I have a feeling we won't though.

 

[bm29]

Some good points.

Our stock of tall guys does seem to be aging and/or had their chance and haven't made it.

I like Playfair, McCarthy, Gardiner, Johnson and they need to be given more time to show their worth. Mackie and Lonergan weren't far away and should break through to show themselves off in 2004.

I hear what you are saying about Mooney and Kingsley. Personally, I think they both hold worth, but on a couple of conditions. 1, They both pull their fingers out and realise that their careers may pass them by if they don't do something soon. 2, That we get some other decent players in there so that they are not taking the number 1 and 2 defenders each week. Let's face it: they are no Matthew Lloyd and Jonathan Brown.

I say, don't give away our first pick. Use it for a young bloke who could be the next biggest thing in 2005/2006.