Trading for the future

[ah_19]

post by WCE2000
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COUSINS Ben - definetaly keep
JAKOVICH Glen - keep
MORRISON Chad - keep
WIRRPUNDA David - keep
KEMP Dean - ask to retire
GARDINER Michael - keep
MATERA Peter - ask to retire
MATERA Phillip - keep
BANFIELD Drew - keep
CUMMINGS Scott - keep
BRAUN Michael - trade
DONNELLY Andrew - trade
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i agree on some of them kemp and matera ask to retire for sure, but i wouldnt trade braun for anything but a top 10-15 pick, and i would preferably trade banfeild, people love him, but i see him as a waste, he was #1 pick in the draft, yet he has become a tagger, hes a lot better than that, should be up there wtih voss and buckley instead of a consistently good player, should be a superstar, and hes only got 4-5 years left, 2-3 of them good the other 2-3 waiting for him to retire

also if Buszan stands up which i beleive he will we will have another FF, i would trade cummings as "blasphemous" as this sounds

but i think buszan will be better than cummings, hes hes the physical strength to take on fullbacks 1 on 1, and also lead
and if buzsan can hold down FF there is nowhere else for cummings to play.....
and hes got 2-3 years compared to 10 for buszan, but this is only if buszan stands up in the WAFL like he showed he could in the first 6 rounds last year kicking 30 goals at 5 a game. not bad for a then 19 yr old

Donnelly ive never thought of anything special, if any club is dumb enough to give a top 30 pick for him we should go for it, same with turnbull, we have Gardiner and Cox to take the ruck duties and beeck as backup.

Some of these players can still perform, but we have to cut our list by about 8 players, 5 for the draft, and 3 to cut the list to 35.......

any "constructive"

criticism welcome

 

[MDB]

Both of you have no idea. Fancy talking about who you think should be traded etc before the season has even started. I hope Michael Braun comes out and proves to you both that he is just as valuable as Ben Cousins. Everyone seems to notice the flashy things that Ben does. Well watch Braun and you will see that he does the hard work (the in and under) which makes getting the ball for Ben a lot easier. Ben is a great player, dont get me wrong, but it's those around him who certainly do help him. Take a look at the delivery of the ball to the forward line. I would much prefer Braun to kick it to cummings that Cousins because of the accuracy of Brauns kicking. You may not all agree with me now, but watch throughout the season and see who hits targets more often.

 

[Visro]

I agree with both of you. Yes we do need to trade some of the older players for draft picks but until we see how they perform this season it is a bit hard to say who.

Kemp and Roo will probably both retire so we cant trade them anyway. The one thing I do agree on is with Donnely and Banfield. Yes they are both good players but we have too many of their player type at the club. It would probably be better to trade them and get some high draft picks from them. They have become stagnant from being at the club so long I think they just need a change in environment.

The WC team has the talent to do well this year. However, until the group bonds (with all the new players coming in) and Ken Judges style of play are natural occuring, I think the team will struggle. We just wont be smooth and slick enough and that is the way to premierships these days (Essendon last year are a good example)

WC will finally feel the effect of years of bad trading this year, but unlike some other clubs I dont think it will take as long to climb back up. We have some very exciting youngsters coming through. Our forward structure looks particularly good, we now only need to strengthen some of our weak areas with some better trading.

Vis

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I was put on this Earth to complete a certain number of tasks. I am so far behind, I will never die...

 

[GoEagles]

Do you guys reckon that it's safe money to bet that Donnelly won't be at the club in 2001? In fact I'd much rather see Donnelly be delisted and promote Buzsan from the rookie list and get him a game or two this season.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Do you people support the same WCE that I do? Donnelly is a great player, the fact that he's being overshadowed my wirrapunda, cousins, braun, etc. does not mean he is a bad player. He proved that in the game against Essendon where he dominated against the best forward line in the comp.

He's a bit older than the players that are overshadowing him, i'll give you that, but unless we want a team of under 23's we need players like him.

I would much rather see Haynes and Hunter get delisted than him.

I would only support him getting delisted if you people want to get rid of everyone over 25 and draft/recruit a whole bunch of youngsters

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"I'm not going to waste my life trying to prolong it"

 

[ah_19]

hanyes and hunter???????
thats a joke, they only got drafted 1 year ago, they both made thier debuts within 1 yearh, haynes played about 8 games and hunter only 1 but because of injury
haynes apparently has an extrodinary marking ability and hunter is apparently the next tony modra

you cant delist kids after 1 year

and for the record, donnely is useless, the perfect example of a waste of talent

 

[Visro]

Were they only drafted last year were they? I thought they had been around for longer than that. I see Haynes having a future but am not so impressed by Hunter. In the games he has played for us he hasn't done much. He's still young I guess, but then again I can't talk considering he's still older than me

Vis

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I was put on this Earth to complete a certain number of tasks. I am so far behind, I will never die...

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

You missed my point when i suggested Haynes and Hunter be delisted. I meant that two players with obvious potential and yet to prove themselves are worth less than donnelly.

I never meant to imply that they are sh!t.

But i think people are too harsh when judging Donnelly and even Wooden. Wooden is the type of player that can average 25 possessions a game for the first 4 games, then have one bad game and get dropped for the rest of the season.

Donnelly used to be like that but has recently started to shake that image. He did after all win the clubs best first year player ahead of Cousins, even though Cousins won the rising star award.

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"I'm not going to waste my life trying to prolong it"

 

[WCE2000]

The problem here is that were blinded by faith and loyalty.

Michael Braun and Andrew Donnelly. This kids is very good player, but if we delist/trade both of them. For the money they would be on, we could get at least 3 solid middle teir players (my post is somewhere on the main afl forum about the eagles problems).

I've seen it so often in football, right through from under 12's. Teams have 10 or so very good players, which is what the eagles have. And their next group of players is pitiful. The strength of a team comes from your middle teir players (players who you rank around 13-22 in your sides list).

For the eagles to bulk up our middle teir, we may have to de-strengthen or top tier. I know for some supporters, its so hard to say "we need to trade Braun" because he is such a good talent. But for the benefit of the club i think we need to trade him and Donnelly. And Kemp and Matera will probably both retire, but if they don't i think the club should ask them to.

So if we lose 4 of our top tier players, we would at least gain 6 middle tier players, which would only beneficial for the club.

I've seen it right through from under 12's. teams pack with very good players, then as you progress through the list, the talent wears very thin.

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[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 23 March 2001).]

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Instead of trading our top players, would it not be more beneficial to try to develop our own middle tier players? Maybe trade a midfielder which we have plenty of for a player we need.

Better than trading our best players away.

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"I'm not going to waste my life trying to prolong it"

 

[WCE2000]

in theory, deveolping sounds good. but they're just not middle tier players.

Here was my list of middler tier players:

13. READ Phillip, 14. FLETCHER Chad, 15. MCINTOSH Ashley, 16. PRIOR Michael, 17. EMBLEY Andrew, 18. JONES Rowan, 19. SIERAKOWSKI David, 20. WILLIAMS Andrew, 21. TURNBULL Ryan, 22. WOODEN Josh.

From about Andrew Embley-down, any side with serious finals asparations would not have him in their strongest 22.

If we were serious finals contendors, most of those players would be our backup.

Its all well and good to say, lets just develop these guys, but you can't turn average players into good footballers just like that, it doesn't work that way. Those players are out of their depth playing such a vital role within a club.

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[jod23]

Your all shocking and from reading what i have it makes me think that my fellow Eagles supporters are lacking loyalty.

To trade Braun?, would come up in one of those threads titled "stupidest trades"!!!!!
And to trade Banners after all he has done for the club is a slap in the face!!!

And to ask absolute champions to retire like Kemp and Matera is DISGUSTING!!! Whats wrong with you ppl. You act as if our club is in crisis or something.

If you know your club then you will know were not in crisis. Think about for a sec and i will use WCE2000 list (although somewhat misguided ill use it)

Read is going to be a great little backmen for the club once he gets over the injury and is a hardman which we need in defence.
Jones is our best tagger... ive seen him take BUCKLEY out of a game, he will develop into a great player.
Williams will mature into a very good utility player, much like Waterman. The kid can almost play anywhere and given patience will also find his spot.
Fletcher doesnt need to be commented on. He will be absolutely awesome this year in the middle and can also move forward and kick goals.
Embly is also another good player who will be great down back or forward, very much like Williams but bigger.

All these players are fantastic youngsters who will go forward to be our top tier players.

With Kemp and Matera going soon (NEVER ask out and out Champions like these two to retire!!!) and others getting old like McIntosh and Jako we will need these guys to come into our top teir players. With the likes of Cousins Wirrpunda Braun Ph Matera Cummings Banfield Gardiner and others we will be fine.

Now you ask who will replace the second teir players.?

Will guys like Turnball going, who cares.. yes he served our club well and he is a favourite of mine but for once we have depth in the ruck with superstar to be Gardiner and very worthy youngsters in Cox and McDougall. If Cox really develops we can throw Gardiner forward to be very damaging as we know he can be.

Then with Matera and Kemp retiring in the coming seasons we have Kerr and Fletcher and Humm to come through and be very good through the middle. And back in defence i can see Glass coming through and playing very well in defence with Jako Morrison Wirra and McIntosh. Not really knowing where others can play like Munro and Gasper to make there mark yet.

And while all this is develpoing, im not suggesting we will be top 8 so more draft picks and good youngsters will be coming through!!

With all that you have others like Merenda, Carrol, Harding, Seira, Collica, Chambers, Green, Prior, Taylor and Wilson to throw in the mix... i really dont know the big panic is!!!!!!

I think the club is in pretty good shape and to want to trade ppl like Donnelly and Braun with talent just oozing out of them and to ask!!! ...Champs like Kemp and Matera to retire is beyond me.

Just my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Well said. Thats just how i feel. The eagles have traditionally developed their own players rather than trade and i for one would like to see that continue.

The only problem with our youngsters was that Malthouse never gave them a chance. Unless they had a ripper debut game they rarely got a second chance. KJ lets these players do their stuff and prove over a period of time their worth to the club.

I do feel sorry for turnball though. This will probably be his last season if Cox or McDougall become regular senior players.

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"I'm not going to waste my life trying to prolong it"

 

[WCE2000]

Jod23:

I dont think loyalty is an issue here.

Everyone here is very loyal ot the eagels, but it seems that your loyalty to the club is clouding you judgmenent.

Our list, really, past the top 14/15 players does not have that much talent.

Some of the guys i haven't seen like Cox, MacDougall etc,. will hopefully develop into good players.

But players like Williams, Jones, Wooden etc,. really, just aren't that good.


In regards to Kemp and Matera. I know it seems very harsh to ask them to retire. A slap in the face, i know. But if they really loved this club, i think they would move over and bring in 3/4 really solid middle teir players.

It's all well and good to be loyal to a club. But i think your letting it club your judgement, because our list just doesn't have that much talent.

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[daddy_4_eyes]

What did we get for Mitchell White?? A 3rd and 4th round draft pick or something, yeah? If a player of that calibre got us that crap, what do you think they would give for a lower profile player like banfield or donnelly?

Development is far better than drafting.



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"I'm not going to waste my life trying to prolong it"

 

[jod23]

I agree D4E, development is definitely the way to go. WCE2000 i have seen every pre season game and trust we have some very promising youngsters who should do well this year. My loyalty isnt clouding my judgement i think you lack of loyalty is clouding yours.

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[GoEagles]

Ok looking over a few stats from previous years I might of been a bit hard on Donnelly. He's stepped up to the task when needed and been a good influence in the forward/half forward line.

However unless a major half forward gets injured this year or has a shocker with form, I think Donnelly's days at the club might be numbered since he's getting on in age and that he hasn't been able to hold down a regular position - similar to Brendan Fewster's case when he was here.

 

[i wanna play too]

Just read this topic and i have to say I agree with GoEagles. 2 good players are worth more than 1 great player. Like the old saying goes "A champion team is better than a team of champions".

But donnelly certainly isn't a great player. He has his great matches here and there -like every other player- but at best he's a fringe player. He would struggle to make the starting 18 (won't mention the bench)with most AFL clubs.

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I never let my schooling interfere with my education.