Triggy

[Allbetsroff]

people who abuse their own players and coaches don't deserve a premiership

Football is entertainment, people pay and pay well to be entertained. If the product Craigy and the boys club are dishing out is insipid garbage, people are entitled to be upset, they pay for that entitlement. Clubs that don't question their own performances never win premierships, wonder why Adelaide hasn't won a premiership in 12 years?

 

[subaru]

Is it still running? Because there's a spot in the 22 next week for it

I got the joke stabby.

First time I smiled all day!

Well except for another incident ...but that involves the stupidity of men ...so I'll leave that alone.

 

[Allbetsroff]

In the big old scheme of things, we won two flags 13 years ago and since then have had the privilege of seeing our team playin in 8 of the last 9 finals series.

Imagine being a Richmond, Bulldogs, Fremantle or St Kilda supporter. Sheesh. We haven't got much to whinge about.

There is 1 winner and 15 losers.

It is premiership or it is nothing.

 

[King Elvis]

Ahhh the beauty of the AFC. We love em when they're up...

I'm not defending anybody here, but the Crows (and Craig specifically) have always hung their hats on us being competitive, and that as supporters, even if things weren't perfect, we'd at least compete.

At the moment, we aren't.

There is no passion, no intensity, no desire, and seemingly, no care.

 

[Allbetsroff]

You're right, Craig should have come out in January and told us all not to count our chickens before they hatched

Yeah that is exactly what I said isn't it

 

[SydCrow]

Football is entertainment, people pay and pay well to be entertained. If the product Craigy and the boys club are dishing out is insipid garbage, people are entitled to be upset, they pay for that entitlement. Clubs that don't question their own performances never win premierships, wonder why Adelaide hasn't won a premiership in 12 years?

so it's OK to abuse the players and coaches then is it?

simple question yes or no

 

[Alex99]

crows98 - I'm sick of people hiding behind "passion" as an excuse to act like a social misfit. (Not accusing you of being one - you were only witness to the abuse)

Passion is what makes us supporters pay our hard earned money to go and watch matches, even when we're losing. It's what makes us buy memberships, and spend hours discussing the club, watching them at training, buying their merchandise, and so on. It's what makes us cheer and scream at football matches.


But yelling abuse at players and coaches? Serious, vitriolic abuse? That doesn't show passion, simply an inability to deal with frustration and disappointment in an acceptable manner.

i agree with you, at the time i was angry (furious)and if i wasn’t held back and in no uncertain way told to hurry up and say nothing – i would have abused a few social misfits. i only gave them the benefit of the doubt by categorising it as ‘passion’ after hearing Neil Craig say he understood their frustration in his PC.

 

[pjcrows]

There is 1 winner and 15 losers.

It is premiership or it is nothing.

Well, yeah. If I was a player, that's how I would think. But let's not pretend we're close to the real action here.

If you watch football purely for a Premiership then you're going to be very disappointed year in, year out. Because like you said, only 1 team wins. We've managed it twice, in our 20 years as a club. Better than the average.

You can be as "demanding, tough-guy, no excuses" as you like. But we've done OK.

 

[cmndstab]

I'm not defending anybody here, but the Crows (and Craig specifically) have always hung their hats on us being competitive, and that as supporters, even if things weren't perfect, we'd at least compete.

At the moment, we aren't.

There is no passion, no intensity, no desire, and seemingly, no care.

I'd say there's plenty of care - just not an immediate solution.

Allbetsroff - What do you want then? You've bagged him for not delivering on his preseason promise of a top 4 spot. Being that he is probably not trying to have the team play like shit, the only alternative to placate you is for him to have not said anything at all.

Do you actually feel worse seeing our form simply because he said in the preseason we'd be good? For mine, I don't give a damn what Craig says. I don't care where he says we're going to finish, I care where we actually finish.

 

[SydCrow]

Well, yeah. If I was a player, that's how I would think. But let's not pretend we're close to the real action here.

If you watch football purely for a Premiership then you're going to be very disappointed year in, year out. Because like you said, only 1 team wins. We've managed it twice, in our 20 years as a club. Better than the average.

You can be as "demanding, tough-guy, no excuses" as you like. But we've done OK.

a few more losses and we'll see how many posters are left

haven't heard much about "flying the flag" this week

 

[Ad76]

There is 1 winner and 15 losers.

It is premiership or it is nothing.

True, but i think his point is that for years now we've been able to go into pretty much every game feeling like we're a chance. And when we lose we've put up a good fight.

There's only 1 winner, but it's a long footy season and the point is valid. We've been lucky to be associated with a club that consistantly has given us something to watch right throughout it.

That brings me to the current situation. For the first time in a long time that feeling of having a genuine chance to win wasnt there before the game today. And it's only Carlton (no disrecpect intended).

 

[cmndstab]

i agree with you, at the time i was angry (furious)and if i wasn’t held back and in no uncertain way told to hurry up and say nothing – i would have abused a few social misfits. i only gave them the benefit of the doubt by categorising it as ‘passion’ after hearing Neil Craig say he understood their frustration in his PC.

Craig understands it - but I doubt he'd condone their method of voicing it. Neither should any reasonable person.


The fact is, as ABRO says, football is entertainment, and yes, the premiership is the only real measure of success. However, 16 clubs are competing for the same prize and only one can win it every year. This doesn't excuse failure, far from it - but it does explain that it is statistically likely.

And since it is likely, it's up to the consumer to decide whether the club is worth their time, money, love, passion and support, despite the high likelihood of disappointment each year. These things are all the choice of the consumer, and it's up to the club to try to earn them, by showing that they are on the right track. If the consumer isn't happy with what they are seeing, they are free to change teams, or simply lose interest in football at any stage. These are all rights owned by the consumer.

What is not owned by the consumer is the right to abuse the club and the people in it because they didn't get what they wanted. They can choose to take their loyalties or money elsewhere, but that's it.

Most supporters of football understand that even though premierships are rare, the pleasure of supporting a club in the dark days only makes that occasional flag even sweeter, and so they stick by their club. That's what makes us supporters. Sticking the knife into them? Not so much.

 

[King Elvis]

I'd say there's plenty of care - just not an immediate solution.

I've got no doubt they care mate; it's just not that apparent on the field.

 

[Allbetsroff]

True, but i think his point is that for years now we've been able to go into pretty much every game feeling like we're a chance. And when we lose we've put up a good fight.

There's only 1 winner, but it's a long footy season and the point is valid. We've been lucky to be associated with a club that consistantly has given us something to watch right throughout it.

That brings me to the current situation. For the first time in a long time that feeling of having a genuine chance to win wasnt there before the game today. And it's only Carlton (no disrecpect intended).

We aren't lucky, because you don't win a premiership doing that.

You try hard but then lose.

 

[Allbetsroff]

Allbetsroff - What do you want then? You've bagged him for not delivering on his preseason promise of a top 4 spot. Being that he is probably not trying to have the team play like shit, the only alternative to placate you is for him to have not said anything at all.

Yeah quit putting words in my mouth.

I didn't say that.

 

[pjcrows]

We aren't lucky, because you don't win a premiership doing that.

You try hard but then lose.

Welcome to sport.

 

[cmndstab]

Alright, so you said that "people" don't take it well when Craig predicts a top 4 spot, and then loses his first four games. So would it be preferable for these same "people" if Craig simply gave no predictions of success at all?

 

[Alex99]

.

Allbetsroff - What do you want then? You've bagged him for not delivering on his preseason promise of a top 4 spot. Being that he is probably not trying to have the team play like shit, the only alternative to placate you is for him to have not said anything at all.

Bingo – leave people expecting the unexpected. Not expecting something only to be disappointed.

 

[Alex99]

Alright, so you said that "people" don't take it well when Craig predicts a top 4 spot, and then loses his first four games. So would it be preferable for these same "people" if Craig simply gave no predictions of success at all?

To me, yeah. Say nothing at all. To borrow a phrase from the last election we had “all spin and no substance” he’s built the clubs expectations up as he should intimately know that squad’s strengths and weakness like no one else

 

[WALL-e]

Not a fan of 'supporters' abusing their own coaches and players.

Front running supporters. and the extra 20,000 people that fill the Stadium when we're on a 5 game win streak as opposed to a losing streak.

Please stay home, and make room for others.

 

[Allbetsroff]

Alright, so you said that "people" don't take it well when Craig predicts a top 4 spot, and then loses his first four games. So would it be preferable for these same "people" if Craig simply gave no predictions of success at all?

No, .

If you used your brain you might have realised I was responding to the post about people abusing the players, pointing out sarcastically that one of the contributing factors may have been the promise craig made coupled with the Crows poor start.

But way to go over thinking it champ.

 

[pjcrows]

Oh FFS. He gets bagged for always talking about "where we want to get to", so he comes out at the start of the pre-season and says - in agreeance with basically every football observer - that we'll push for the Top 4 this year with improvement. Now we bag him for it. That's rich, fellas.

 

[Allbetsroff]

Oh FFS. He gets bagged for always talking about "where we want to get to", so he comes out at the start of the pre-season and says - in agreeance with basically every football observer - that we'll push for the Top 4 this year with improvement. Now we bag him for it. That's rich, fellas.

He could have just shut up and not said anything.

 

[cmndstab]

To me, yeah. Say nothing at all. To borrow a phrase from the last election we had “all spin and no substance” he’s built the clubs expectations up as he should intimately know that squad’s strengths and weakness like no one else

He's been doing this for years, and has been roundly criticised for it. "We need to focus on getting 12 wins first, then we'll make the finals". Then, when we do that "Now we need to focus on getting into the top 4". Every time he gets criticised for not showing some passion and faith in the team to talk it up, but this time he does it and gets cut down because the team didn't live up to his promises.


The fact of the matter is training form counts for something, but not that much. Craig can only base his opinions on what he's seen, and our form last year was damn good at times. Add to that the form of the youngsters in our team (which so far this year has actually been relatively good for the most part) and it's not hard to see why Craig was excited enough to make such predictions.


The performances dished up so far this season have been extremely unlike anything we've seen from the Crows in a decade. No surprises to learn that Craig was caught by surprise as much as we all were.


I'd prefer that the coach talks his team up - assuming he honestly believes they are a chance - every time rather than simply hides behind "we'll see what happens, it's a very even competition, etc".

 

[cmndstab]

No, .

If you used your brain you might have realised I was responding to the post about people abusing the players, pointing out sarcastically that one of the contributing factors may have been the promise craig made coupled with the Crows poor start.

But way to go over thinking it champ.

I'm talking about precisely the same thing you are. You're claiming that the people who abused Craig and the players are upset because Craig said that we'd finish top 4, but have failed to show any kind of form so far. The implication is that it would have been preferable for these people if Craig had simply said nothing.